Extreme AM Report

Some points about the Extreme AM:

1. It just doesn't feel EXTREME.

2. Without an energy weapon Adren disapears to quickly.

3. -10 adren for missed bolts shots is like losing bullets for missed shot (re when playing as a surrport charater)

4. When playing as a surrporting role, there must be a base to be effective.

5. most kills go to other players because bolt take monsters down very low and with all the other bullets flying around a glancing mini bullet takes the kill.

6. No denial and no advanced damage bonus means death after first death for rest of the game. (maybe just spawn with an energy flak like engingeer spawn link that would feel more extreme)

As a whole I think the concept of the AM being a sedinarary charater are wrong.

AM's have way less damage reduction then any other charater, but have the potenial to do great damage, in the thick of it, but only for a short time. Then it's RUN AWAY and recharge. AM's take a greater risk running into battle but never can stand toe to toe for any leghth of time. I believe that makes the charater balanced.

My version of an Extreme AM would be AM with hybrid weapons, more quickfoot, triple jumps, vamperism, rod and bolt - with no penetly for misses. I would give up rod for Extreme AM in place of Advanced Damage Reduction.

Thanks for the feedback Ratar.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

1. It just doesn't feel EXTREME.

I can't make it stronger than any other class/subclass, but I certainly do not want it weaker.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

2. Without an energy weapon Adren disapears to quickly.

If this character is going to be a wizard/mage, then I don't want to make it dependent on an energy weapon. Perhaps Surge 4, and Drip 5 (with drip still working while artifacts are active). Should have loads then. Since everyone will insist on using the Rod, I'll up the power of that for the extreme AM as well.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

3. -10 adren for missed bolts shots is like losing bullets for missed shot (re when playing as a surrport charater)

Ok, I'll change it to be like Beam - with a standard -10 cost dropping to -5 for Extreme AM.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

5. most kills go to other players because bolt take monsters down very low and with all the other bullets flying around a glancing mini bullet takes the kill.

Beam is much better than Bolt: 14 damage/adren rather than 6 for an Extreme AM. What about any of the blasts? Did you try those? Do we just need more offensive artifacts, or better tweaking of the ones we have to make them useable?

Ratar_Killer wrote:

6. No denial and no advanced damage bonus means death after first death for rest of the game. (maybe just spawn with an energy flak like engingeer spawn link that would feel more extreme)

Perhaps need to spawn with maxed adrenaline, like the WM spawns with max ammo.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

As a whole I think the concept of the AM being a sedinarary charater are wrong.

AM's have way less damage reduction then any other charater, but have the potenial to do great damage, in the thick of it, but only for a short time. Then it's RUN AWAY and recharge. AM's take a greater risk running into battle but never can stand toe to toe for any leghth of time. I believe that makes the charater balanced.

My version of an Extreme AM would be AM with hybrid weapons, more quickfoot, triple jumps, vamperism, rod and bolt - with no penetly for misses. I would give up rod for Extreme AM in place of Advanced Damage Reduction.

Druid's initial aim for the AM was one that stands back to fight - WMs have the Vampire to keep them in the centre of the battle. the AMs were to take out from a distance. Which is why they have limited protection and no health regen - they need to avoid damage.
The type of character you are suggesting is more like the WM/AM hybrid.

Food for thought anyway. Thanks.

i dont know how much this could help since i havent use it ( i have no requirements)
so far i have read that every high player AM say he just dont have enough adren anmd they feel other players are taking the kills right?

just make stronger items for LA in extr AM, no penalty lost for beam
or make let say a item that AM can use it with no adren but cant be used in "x" time.
let say the noAdrenBeam artifact, AM can shoot it every 5 seconds dont deal Adren and controled damage..

this is not by any meaning an out of control item, since admin can control, the X times per second, and fix the damage.

Ams will feel that even if they run out of damage things will be fine they sill have a "weapon"

What about any of the blasts? Did you try those? Do we just need more offensive artifacts, or better tweaking of the ones we have to make them useable?

I think more tweaking would be needed. The majority of the blasts are just too situational to use. Many maps are just not set up right to make any good use out of em. Mega Blast is a waste only a couple of mobs, Psn's only really good on titan waves or a big group of mobs right outside of a base. Havent ever used Freeze yet. Repulsion is really only used on like 2-3 maps.

I've gotten a few ideas for artifacts that could help the extreme AM.

Energy Leech Artifact
Cost: 0 Adrenaline
Desc.: Does 0 damage to a targeted monster but while this active, gives the User X amount adrenaline / second as long as user does not outrange the mob and the mob is alive.

Basically its the EAM's form of an Energy Weapon. They target a mob and turn the artifact on, it gives them a constant stream of Adrenaline as long as the target is alive and the EAM is sort of close to it.

Graphic could be like a white bolt connecting the EAM and the monster.

Adrenaline Sphere
Cost: 10-14 Adrenaline / Sec
Desc.: All players in the sphere of effect gain 1 Adrenaline / Sec. Each person affected grants the user 1xp.

Its like the Medic/DD/Invul Spheres but adrenaline. The AM plays a little support and boosts his team up.

Graphic is an orange/white sphere.

Chain Lightning
Cost: See below
Cooldown: ??s
Desc.: Does 5 Damage per Adrenaline Used up to a Max of 100 on the main target. Target must be targeted (like Beam). Also Jumps to a nearby monster in range doing up to 70% of the damage done to the last target. (This costs 0 Adrenaline to the user). Jumps to a total of 4 monsters.

So a 20 Adrenaline Used shot would do 100 to the targeted monster, 70 to the 2nd, 49 to the 3rd, and 34 to the 4th. The 3 "jumps" dont cost anything extra. It places it between the Bolt and Beam in terms of Damage to Adrenaline and its weaker then beam since it jumps but stronger then bolt (since bolt doesnt have to be aimed.

Also this was proposed before but ill do it again.
Adrenal Injection
Cost: 25 Adrenaline / Sec
Desc.: While this artifact is on, Restores Health equal to the Adrenaline spent * 1.5 up to base max for self only. When turned off, user loses 2 health per second for 25 seconds.

This restores health at a very quick rate compared to booster but as the "Adrenaline Injection" wears off, the gained health is slowly lost. Good for those moments when your at <50 health, no medics availble and no health packs around.

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

i dont know how much this could help since i havent use it ( i have no requirements)
so far i have read that every high player AM say he just dont have enough adren anmd they feel other players are taking the kills right?

just make stronger items for LA in extr AM, no penalty lost for beam
or make let say a item that AM can use it with no adren but cant be used in "x" time.
let say the noAdrenBeam artifact, AM can shoot it every 5 seconds dont deal Adren and controled damage..

this is not by any meaning an out of control item, since admin can control, the X times per second, and fix the damage.

Ams will feel that even if they run out of damage things will be fine they sill have a "weapon"

insted of real damage why not that weapon leech Adren?

Dracos wrote:

What about any of the blasts? Did you try those? Do we just need more offensive artifacts, or better tweaking of the ones we have to make them useable?
I think more tweaking would be needed. The majority of the blasts are just too situational to use. Many maps are just not set up right to make any good use out of em. Mega Blast is a waste only a couple of mobs, Psn's only really good on titan waves or a big group of mobs right outside of a base. Havent ever used Freeze yet. Repulsion is really only used on like 2-3 maps.

Perhaps we need a smaller version of the MegaBlast (MiniBlast?) - only costs say 15-20 adren (for extreme AM) and explodes with damage at the core say 200.

Dracos wrote:

Adrenaline Sphere...Its like the Medic/DD/Invul Spheres but adrenaline. The AM plays a little support and boosts his team up...

Not sure. It is a lot of adrenaline for a AM to use up.

Dracos wrote:

Chain Lightning....

I think this one could be the one to go for. Would put an interesting dynamic on things.

Dracos wrote:

Also this was proposed before but ill do it again.
Adrenal Injection
Cost: 25 Adrenaline / Sec
Desc.: While this artifact is on, Restores Health equal to the Adrenaline spent * 1.5 up to base max for self only.

Druid has historically always been against AMs using adrenaline to get health, so I am not convinced it would get his vote.

Szlat wrote:

Dracos wrote:

Also this was proposed before but ill do it again.
Adrenal Injection
Cost: 25 Adrenaline / Sec
Desc.: While this artifact is on, Restores Health equal to the Adrenaline spent * 1.5 up to base max for self only.
Druid has historically always been against AMs using adrenaline to get health, so I am not convinced it would get his vote.

Oh I know, just putting it up again. Doesnt hurt right

How about the reverse then.
Adrenaline Injection
Cost: 25% of your current Health
Cooldown: 120s
Desc: Gives you adrenaline equal to 25% of your current health. I.E. 450 health Max = 112 Health Cost and gives 112 Adrenaline.

Its ment to be used in one of those situations where your low on adrenaline and a bunch of mobs is coming. Sure a medic can heal you back up but the long CD would prevent abuse of it.

Dracos wrote:

Energy Leech Artifact
Cost: 0 Adrenaline
Desc.: Does 0 damage to a targeted monster but while this active, gives the User X amount adrenaline / second as long as user does not outrange the mob and the mob is alive.

Adrenaline Injection
Cost: 25% of your current Health
Cooldown: 120s
Desc: Gives you adrenaline equal to 25% of your current health. I.E. 450 health Max = 112 Health Cost and gives 112 Adrenaline.

I agree with the balance of these as well. The former means you have a mob basically sitting on you in order to get additional adren. Perhaps it could even be a static ability that gives you 1 adren/sec/enemy within a certain distance (probably a fairly short distance, and maybe toggle off while running rod to persuade use of other artifacts). This would help scale damage when swarmed by skaarj.

Szlat wrote:

Druid's initial aim for the AM was one that stands back to fight - WMs have the Vampire to keep them in the centre of the battle. the AMs were to take out from a distance. Which is why they have limited protection and no health regen - they need to avoid damage.
The type of character you are suggesting is more like the WM/AM hybrid.

Food for thought anyway. Thanks.

I know that was the original concept but I believe that the ENG class seems to cover this description much better. Now that AM has been in for sometime, I don’t believe anyone plays this character the way that was first intended, but it has defiantly become a favorite to those of us who play AM consistently. I also think that you cannot play an AM the same way you play a WM, its two different mindsets.

I know you put a lot of time and effort into this, and you are much appreciated for it. I also think that your hands are a little tied to the description that was given to this character some 3+ years ago. If Dru or Shan are reading this post could you please let Szlat and the community know if you are set firm on the original description of the AM or if there is some flexibility. Thanks.

Ok i'm getting used to playing Extreme AM, Things are looking up,

I have 3 things to say:
1. Denial
2. Denial
3. Denial
and/or
Spawn with energy or piercing artifact.

After first death recovery to get back to where you were is very very difficult.
ok more then 3 things:

4. We need a visual countdown for next blast, maybe like structure countdowns
5. 100 adren for blast makes it so worth it

(BTW, in my first post I said Bolt when I ment Beam)

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Ok i'm getting used to playing Extreme AM, Things are looking up, .... Denial... Denial...3. Denial...After first death recovery to get back to where you were is very very difficult.

Changed so the Extreme AM respawns with full adrenaline. I'm am still trying to keep off weapon dependence

Ratar_Killer wrote:

. We need a visual countdown for next blast, maybe like structure countdowns

It would be useful to know. Not sure what the best way of doing it is. The Engineer timer isn't perfect, and to have one per artifact? The big problem is replicating it back to the client.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

100 adren for blast makes it so worth it

Good. I suggested in one thread a cheaper smaller blast to use as well - I suppose more akin to a flak shell rather than a redeemer - would that be of any use?

Ratar_Killer wrote:

(BTW, in my first post I said Bolt when I ment Beam)

Ahh. For an Extreme AM the beam is only 5 for a miss (I believe)

Szlat wrote:

It would be useful to know. Not sure what the best way of doing it is. The Engineer timer isn't perfect, and to have one per artifact? The big problem is replicating it back to the client.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

100 adren for blast makes it so worth it
Good. I suggested in one thread a cheaper smaller blast to use as well - I suppose more akin to a flak shell rather than a redeemer - would that be of any use?

The Blast power, i think, is spot on, The timer would make a big difference. Not sure about a smaller blast, but I try it out.

I am totally leaning toward a energy flak spawn but leave resupply at 2. ( we could try it at resupply 1 and see how it goes) This way no time or waves wasted on making getting weapon, but not enough resupply to keep it going endlessly.

I played a few rounds the other night with just shield and beam, It went pretty well. 200+ beam kills score around 1300-1400 I forget but second place to Elite. Going to play a little more that way tonight and wiil try to get better numbers.

Szlat hold off on any Extreme AM changes,

I have gotten a hold on this charater and it is pretty cool. No Denial needed, no energy wep needed, no piercing wep needed. aren gains are fine.

I played many games now with just shield and beam and score in the 1500-2000 range with 2K+ xp per game. No more worrying about repawn with out weapon.

The only problem I see is target size, fly very hard to line up, but not a problem, but titans & queens are big enough to go down fast, maybe to fast. However Rapier, who is half my level, but an excellent AM, was fighting tooth and nail for 1st place, we finished 1 xp apart. I think this shows balence "as is".

You really just have to embrace changing your game play to get the most out of it.
Having a great time, Thank you

can the miniblast be named fireball?