Extreme AM Report

Thanks for persevering Ratar.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Szlat hold off on any Extreme AM changes,...However Rapier, who is half my level, but an excellent AM, was fighting tooth and nail for 1st place, we finished 1 xp apart. I think this shows balence "as is".

Thanks for that. It looks like a small boost is required. However, based on the feedback so far, the changes I had submitted are:

Ghost 3, like all Extremes

Start with maxed adrenaline

Drip 5, giving 3 adren a sec

Surge 4

Rod now does more damage for the Extreme AM (1.3 times normal)

Drip works with artifacts running
I think these may be too much - I think the surge 4 will need to go back to surge 3, but I think lets leave it with drip 5. I presume there were still lots of times you ran out of adrenaline?

Ratar_Killer wrote:

The only problem I see is target size, fly very hard to line up, but not a problem, but titans & queens are big enough to go down fast, maybe too fast.

To get rid of flies, I often retreat away from the big monsters then rod them (or bolt) - you can't get them with the beam.

EDIT: Oh, and remember a poison weapon is really useful for titan waves - you get less from the initial damage of the weapon, but the poison effect is exactly the same.

Sorry but I would be hesitant to add more than necessary, I scored over 3k earlier today so I think yes it might need a little boost but not that much. Surge 4 is overkill... I don't think drip 5 is necessary when you already start off with full adrenaline. And surprisingly I did not need anymore adrenaline than what I had I always seemed to have a constant supply. And I don't think the rod needs to be stronger, beam is strong enough. With the addition of ghost 3 and full adrenaline at spawning I think I could call this subclass pretty much balanced. It just requires a different playing style, one without weapons.

However Rapier, who is half my level, but an excellent AM, was fighting tooth and nail for 1st place, we finished 1 xp apart. I think this shows balence "as is".

Ratar is correct, I was fighting tooth nail to stay in front of him and the only reason I was staying in points range is I had a Energy Flak #4. If I have this flak I can hang with most (Except Elite) through wave 14. After 14 it's time to hide. It also depends on the quality and quanty of Medics and engineers on at the time.

This map we had some great Medics and Engineer support. My AM is at 187 And I'm work hard to get to 200 so I can try out the new sub classes.

I do like the Idea of spawing with an Energy Flak, But I also realize it's probably not going to happen. The Flak is one of the few weapons that max resupply can keep up with. I had an energy 4 Link the following map and using burst fire it was only good for about 30 seconds. The rocket is another but it kills me faster than the monsters do.

On My AM I have never used the the blast, or beam artifacts and as Ratar stated the repulshion is only good for maps that you can blast monsters off of.

I can burn 2000 Adrin trying to make weapons I prefer and never make the ones I want. I've had match were I made the same weapon 6 time with various different weapons in between an not get what I need.

Is there a way to lower the randomizer so the energy will come up a little more often. It seems even the percing come up much more often but I my level the engery is prefered to me.

One other thing, can you get rid of the message screen that comes up in you face after you ghost. It's hell to ghost into a furball and not be able to see what around you or coming at you.

Thanks For the Great Server.

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]I can burn 2000 Adrin trying to make weapons I prefer and never make the ones I want. I've had match were I made the same weapon 6 time with various different weapons in between an not get what I need.

Is there a way to lower the randomizer so the energy will come up a little more often. It seems even the percing come up much more often but I my level the engery is prefered to me.

I am not sure, but I think the current chances may be:

66% chance - No magic

4% chance - damage

3% chance - Sturdy,Poison,Luck,Protection

2% chance - Healing,Force,Penetrating,Energy,Piercing

1% chance - Vampire,Vorpal,Infinity,Freezing,Knockback,Quickfoot,NullEntropy,Rage,Reflection
(% values are rounded up - the 1% is actually 1/35 of 0.33333 )
But these are up to Druid to change, as increasing the chance of vampire, energy or piercing will affect the gameplay.

Szlat wrote:

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]I can burn 2000 Adrin trying to make weapons I prefer and never make the ones I want. I've had match were I made the same weapon 6 time with various different weapons in between an not get what I need.

Is there a way to lower the randomizer so the energy will come up a little more often. It seems even the percing come up much more often but I my level the engery is prefered to me.
I am not sure, but I think the current chances may be:

66% chance - No magic

4% chance - damage

3% chance - Sturdy,Poison,Luck,Protection

2% chance - Healing,Force,Penetrating,Energy,Piercing

1% chance - Vampire,Vorpal,Infinity,Freezing,Knockback,Quickfoot,NullEntropy,Rage,Reflection
(% values are rounded up - the 1% is actually 1/35 of 0.33333 )
But these are up to Druid to change, as increasing the chance of vampire, energy or piercing will affect the gameplay.

With the MWM the No Magic is cut from the list.
That puts Energy at 2/34 (Cant be Vorpal) or almost 6% Chance for Energy Flak

So what are you going to do with the Lightning Chain? Can we conclude that this subclass is thus balanced at the moment? Can we begin discussing on the Extreme WM and Engineer?

Elite wrote:

So what are you going to do with the Lightning Chain? Can we conclude that this subclass is thus balanced at the moment? Can we begin discussing on the Extreme WM and Engineer?

I have most of the Chain Lightning implemented. The only thing left is changing the color of the bolt. Unfortunately, this is more difficult as it requires an extra download package to be created with the textures in - so I think it will either be blue or not in the short term.

Currently on my agenda are:

Try and sort out a black bar in medic awareness and engineer awareness for players with HardCore

Investigate getting a timer on individual artifacts for AMs

Investigate the Ion Turret for Turret Specialists

Implement Chain Lightning and FireBall for the Extreme AMs. These will be about the same or less power as the existing beam, so shouldn't affect balance - just give more variety and fun.

Finish the auto-pilot turrets for the Turret Specialist

Sort out the out of bounds in vehicles and turrets

I have a note of a bug with the Link Turret messing up the artifact list etc which I haven't investigated

There is a bug in Loaded Engineer when you buy all the levels in one go, under the artifacts it only lists one point.

Then I have on my list that Extreme WM and Extreme Engineer and perhaps Extreme Medic all require something extra. I am quite happy to discuss those - most of the above problems will not be quick fixes. But if there are quick things to get done for the Extremes, then I can get those done first.

I have no idea when the next build will be. I do know Druid and Shantara are very busy for the next couple of weeks. I don't know if Druid will find time for another build - which is why I am trying to cram as much as possible in as quickly as possible - just in case.

need me to crack a whip your way???

Quick question on the auto turret, When the auto turret is ingauged will anay body be able to jump in and take over will the turret master be the only person allow?

This really ought to be on a different thread, but I will respond here for consistency.

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]Quick question on the auto turret, When the auto turret is ingauged will any body be able to jump in and take over will the turret master be the only person allow?

Quick question, but not a quick answer.

The original idea was that Engineers would be able to kick off a "targetting sphere", which would essentially convert all unmanned turrets into sentinels.

However, I feel that will cause arguments with Engineers wanting to use their turrets auto-targetting, but other players getting into them. Imagine using 100 adrenaline to kick off the targetting, and then people get into your turrets. I do not want those "discussions". In addition, I am reluctant to change turrets (which are manually aimed) into sentinels (which independently choose their own targets). If this is not available to just Turret Specialists it allows Engineers to have sentinels and more sentinels - not good. If it is just Turret Specialists, why are we creating sentinels for them?

So my current idea is to not re-use empty turrets, but to have distinct "unmanned turrets" which the turret specialist can spawn. These turrets are small, and cannot be manned. They are directed by the Turret Specialist. So the Turret Specialist spawns say an energy turret, and 3 of these unmanned turrets. He gets in the energy turret, and whatever he fires at, the unmanned turrets also fire at.

Ok, let me explain a bit about what I am thinking of for the Chain Lightning.

The basic thought is like the beam, but chains out to adjacent monsters after it has hit. So...

Since the Extreme AM is approx balanced, the Chain Lightning cannot be more powerful than the Beam. Just different.

Generally hitting three or less monsters should be less effective than the Beam. Hitting 4 or more monsters could do more damage than the Beam

Assume the Chain Lightning costs 25 adrenaline. For 25 adrenaline, the Beam will do 25*14 = 350 damage. However the beam is limited to 200 damage per shot. So the chain lightning should not hit the victim for more than 200 damage, and should do about 350 damage for 25 adrenaline, if there are 3-4 monsters hit.

So, that is what I am working towards.
After hitting the first monster for x damage, the lightning chains to adjacent monsters within a certain "step" distance, and does a fraction of x damage to them. The lightning then steps again, with a smaller step max, and does even less damage. There has to be a threshold at which the chain stops jumping.

So, assume the initial damage is 120, the step distance is 400 (about 8 yards or metres), and assume the distance and damage drop by 0.5 each step. Assume the chain stops below 20 damage.

Hit one monster - do 120 damage.

Hit a monster with another monster just in range. Target monster hit for 120, other monster hit for 120*0.5=60, giving a total of 180.

Hit a monster, with two monsters just in range on opposite sides. Total is 120 + 60 + 60 = 240.

Now assume the 2 monsters are half the distance away. Once they are hit, they bounce the hit back to the original victim, as they are within the 4 yard step range. So we do 120 + 2*60 +2*30 = 300 damage.

Hit a monster with 2 monsters standing right next to it.
First Monster hit for 120. Next 2 monsters hit for 60 each. The chain then jumps from each monster to each other monster. So the initial target monster gets hit twice for 30 each, and the others get hit once each. Then it stops, because the next damage would be below 20.
So we have 120 + 2*60 + 4*30 = 360
So, the break even point with the Beam is when you get 2 or more monsters within a 2 yard radius circle.

Or of course have more monsters in a bigger radius.

Ok, so I have the Chain Lightning done, and will submit to cvs tonight.
Configuration as above - inital damage 120, step distance 400, step deterioration 0.5, 25 adren for the Extreme AM.

The lightning color is still blue. When I do the fireball, if I have to add extra textures etc for that, then I will change the chain lightning to red.

Keybinding will be SelectChain

So, next the artifact timers.

My initial thought was to do it the same way the Engineer one works, for consistency. So you see a number that counts down next to the artifact. However, for the AM we would need a counter per artifact, rather than just one counter. So if you had just used the MegaBlast, when you display the MegaBlast artifact icon you would see the seconds next to it, if you moved onto a different artifact e.g. Triple then you would see no counter.

However, I am concerned about how that will get used, as people normally just use the keybindings to select artifacts, and don't spend their time scrolling the artifacts to see which timers have expired. So, as an alternative, it may be possible to use a different area on screen, and for each "recharging" artifact, display the icon and a timer next to it. So you might have numerous artifacts showing, each with their own timers.

Against that is the thought that it is really only the MegaBlast that has a significant timer. The max for Bolt/Beam/Chain is 5 secs, and given that the timer is likely to have around half a second inaccuracy, I am not sure how useful it would be? You would just end up with icons on the screen for a fraction of a second - could be distracting.

Thoughts?

mm i have an idea...
however i will need help for my english this might be hard to explain..

why not a "bar" call it whatever you want it. could be just a number. now megablast take let say 60% of the bar. and u cant use it again, at least until you wait few feconds and the bar fill at least with the 20% you need, now you can use megablast again ( you have a 100% bar, use megablast (100-60=40) therefore you need 20% to use megablast again), if you want to use megablast again, you need now to wait until 60% is in the "bar"

to put it into another words, if you played those oldschool games where you had a machinegun and you couldnt use it at all time because it "overheat".. this is the same..

now as an aditional, i feel this only useful for megablast or anyother blast, poison blast freeze blast, fireball etc(maybe chainlight). because bolt and beam have such a low timers that a player could just overuse beams and bolt.. hope ya understand

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

...why not a "bar" call it whatever you want it. could be just a number. now megablast take let say 60% of the bar. and u cant use it again, at least until you wait few feconds and the bar fill at least with the 20% you need, now you can use megablast again ( you have a 100% bar, use megablast (100-60=40) therefore you need 20% to use megablast again), if you want to use megablast again, you need now to wait until 60% is in the "bar"......

That is what the adrenaline does.