Considerations for Better Balance and GamePlay

The current build is in beta while we evaluate gameplay. There are some issues which concern me. I am not seeking to spoil anyones game here, and I know some of these suggestions will have a mixed reception. But I am trying to make the game more consistent and more fun all-round, and I think we have lost a bit of it.

1) Double/Triple damage.

(Note as an aside that in invasion, the triple damage artifact only gives double damage.)
There are lots of "funnies" with the triple - can be used with this, can't with this, affects this, doesn't affect this etc. Let's try to make sense of it.

As a starting point, I think my feeling is that the DD should double all damage. The triple should affect normal weapon damage, and double it. The triple should not affect "special" weapon damage, and how it affects artifact damage needs to be considered.
[EDIT: as a slight clarification, we have a separate artifact the Double Magic Modifier that doubles the magic effect of weapons. And there is a bit of overlap between the DD and the DMM, but the DMM increase the magic effect, the DD increase the initial weapon damage]
So, what does that mean.

Special Weapon Damage

"SuperWeapons". Some damagetypes are currently flagged as as "superweapon" damage type just to avoid the DB/DR calculations. This is the Rod, Bolt, Beam, MegaBlast and Lightning Sentinel (as well as redeemer and ion painter). I think if this is a superweapon, then the triple damage should not work on it, since it is not normal weapon damage. Note that if the damagetype is "superweapon" then the damage gets doubled, but you only get xp for the normal damage - so half the damage scores nothing.

Poison should not be affect by the triple.

Magic effects like Vampire, leech should be based on the initial damage, not the final doubled damage - applies to both the DD and the triple

The piercing weapon should either do the DB/DR bypass and not take the +30% and triple, or take the +30% damage bonus and be affected by the triple - whichever is the higher. Either case gets the DD added

Rage Weapon. Currently cant be used with the triple, but can with the DD. No change proposed except to let the triple run, but not improve damage

Currently the vorpal cannot be used with the triple. I suggest we reduce the power of the vorpal (see below) then it can be used with the triple. Or let the triple be used with it but not increase damage
Artifacts
So, following the route of the first list point, I suggest "superweapon" adrenline attacks get the DD but not the triple, other adrenaline attacks are affected by both.

Do any of these changes seriously nerf a subclass - not really.

2) Unaimed Damage
Anything unaimed should not be too powerful. Ok these things can really rack up your number of kills and make your score better, but I think are detremental to overall gameplay. This includes the Lightning Rod, Bolt, Pets and Sentinels. I think probably not the Mine Layer at this stage.

So if something unaimed is scoring more than say 100 kills, I think it needs nerfing. If nerfing it makes a subclass useless, then either the subclass goes or we add something else in instead.

In detail then
Lightning Rod
Yes, here we are again! Players can get up to 200 kills with this. If it was aimed that would be fine. Unaimed it is not. It is slightly too powerful on its own, but much too powerful when used with the DD/triple. Up above I am already suggesting the rod doesn't benefit from the triple. So, apart from that:

Reduce the damage done

Reduce the range

Increase the cost
One or more of the above needs to be done.

Does nerfing the Lightning Rod drastically nerf a subclass? It mostly affects the AM, since they get the Rod and triple and surge helps to keep it running. However, AMs using this combo can massively overscore, so this will bring them back in line. If necessary, yes we can boost other AM skills to compensate.

Bolt
This has already been nerfed to reduce the damage, and stop it doubling the damage when used with DD/triple. So I think no nerf is necessary. I have not recently seen anyone getting >100 kills with the Bolt. However, note from 1 above that we will be changing the bolt to be affected by the DD, which it currently isnt.

Pets
I think we have two considerations here - normal medics and the Extreme Monsters subclass.
Normal medics. I am not sure how many pet kills a high-level normal medic can get - can someone supply that information please? I suspect it might only be the titan that causes problems. But if this comes in under 100 kills, I have no hassle with it.
Extreme Monsters. This subclass by its nature depends on Pets for its main feature. I think in this case we might be getting too many pet kills. Again, can someone supply example figures? This subclass might need to be removed, as I can't realistically think how to compensate it for fewer pet kills.

Sentinels
Can players get more than 100 sentinel kills - yes. So I think we have a problem here. Again considering the normal engineer and the sentinel specialist
Normal Engineer. This can get more than 100 kills. Spawning offensive sentinels and hiding in a safe spot linking the sentinel is not a gameplay I want to encourage. So, I want to reduce the offensive power of the sentinels. This will not significantly nerf the class has it has so many other options.
Sentinel Specialist. This usually goes over 100 kills, due to players spawning 2 offensive sentinels and getting increased damage from sentinel fire. One option is to remove this subclass. An alternative would be a) reduce sentinel damage b) remove the damage bonus from sentinels this subclass gets c) Allow the SS to spawn the AutoGuns (unmanned turrets or aimed sentinels). These changes will still leave the Sentinel Specialist with a different gameplay and sufficient firepower, but it will be aimed rather than unaimed.

3) Weapons

I think we need a discussion about the various weapons, and what changes should be made.
I personally would like to see

some of the weapons increasing in strength. So bring back the Damage+5. Improve Penetrating, Sturdy, and perhaps combine Knockback and Force. What everyone really wants to do is shoot monsters, so lets have bigger guns.

Some weapons reducing in strength e.g. Piercing and Vorpal - +30% and +100% is a touch too high.

All RPG weapons do a minimum damage even for high level players. We could up that - even as high as 80% (so all weapons would be 80% piercing)

Perhaps allow the +1 spawned artifact (not the AM one) to allow weapons to go higher than it currently does. Perhaps up to 5 over the normal maximum for the weapon. And perhaps rather than having them all +1, have a random amount +0, +1, +2 even the odd +3

We could also have extra spawned artifacts that allow a weapon to be converted to a specific type (e.g. Vorpal), if we so wished?
I think I would like to see WMs with better weapons than anyone else. What else does WM mean? Not a nerfing of the AM, but an empowering of the WM.

Now some things above nerf things, some give extra power. Let's try to keep things in balance. Just adding the things with more power will actually reduce the challenge in the game, and hence some of the fun.

For people posting replies, it may be worth while giving a quick summary of your state on all these questions. e.g.
1.DD double everything, triple only normal: yes
2. Nerf Rod: yes
Nerf Bolt: dont care
Nerf Pets: yes
Nerf Sentinels: yes
3.Stronger Weapons: yes, but keep the +1s as +1
then post what you were going to say.

here is my reply.

i as a mid lvl AM im scoring sometimes tooo much. however i do not depend on rod, at least in my top scores you can see my rod does probably less than 30% of my kills the only wave that i use the rod i wave 10, and yes sometimes i can get 400 exp in that wave..

so far my gameplay has been forced (and i say forced because) to use beam, i cant kill as fast as zerker class, therefor i wait for zerker or anyother high lvl to hit the pray once, then i use beam that way at least i can score when zerkers are on.

about DD/triple.

i use triple, but only in extream situations, for example, i see a bunch of warlords trying to get to the base, i pull the trigger and use rod/triple.

now as i have disscussed before with a friend in the game (freddo) i hate piercing damage since i cant use triple/rod. so piercing/rage are a no for me.

for the triple and poison i say its ok, after all i can still use the double, which grants me a +8 poison, which is good.

vampire gives me a shot to survive, otherwise ill be doom, leave triple and dd to get us AM more health.

about vorp guns leave them as they are if so at least let us use rod/triple as i explained before i dont use it all the time, only when needed.

about unaimed damage.
today i couldnt see a thing in the server i guess is because all the sents/pets over there. please do something about it

rod-- if you feel there is something to be done, then ill say reduce range.
if you are going to boost AM for tthe range of the rod i have an skill that might help

new skill adrenaline keg--
you get the adren but once u have all the adren full u start to fill a keg, which can be used in later points, (if you have played metroid u might have an idea).

"I think I would like to see WMs with better weapons than anyone else. What else does WM mean? Not a nerfing of the AM, but an empowering of the WM." that nerf every1, if a WM zerker gets high weps what does it mean? less kills for us. im not sure

but in the other hand let vanilla or non magical weps more damage, piercing damage if possible there are situations where im all left alone, and i stop fighting, its pointless to try to kill monsters

i will try to edit this post to help u guys reading it, since i made it into the rush.

For the pets and sentinels how about tying them down to the number of kills done by the class's special weapon. For example: If I am playing as an Extreme Monsters subclass, my pets would only be as strong as the number of kills I get with the medic weapon( but this would mean any medic weapon even if the player changes between them). Thus never exceeding my own kill-streak. So for a person who camps, their pets would be quite useless but for a person who is outgoing and aggressive in their killing then the pets should do the same. This would apply to the sentinel specialist as well, but instead tying them down to their engineer link. It would follow the same code the skilled weapons subclass follows, so the more you kill, (instead of your own weapons becoming stronger), the stronger your sentinels and pets get. But of course just like the special weapons subclass there should be a cap around the same would suffice. And if you don't kill, well then your xp will be very minimal.

As for the rod, you know where I stand on that matter, it is a superweapon but unlike the redeemer it can be fired constantly and without aim.

1. double doubles everything except supers, trip affects everything except artifacts. dd and triple dont really affect poison anyway since poison weaps dot is unaffected by the damage done... its % based off enemy health only. magic effects should stay modified otherwise its confusing... I did more damage so why shouldnt I get the benefit of it. maybe instead of making piercing bypass the dr, make it reduce dr to 1/4 of what it would be after it is capped by the player level. so if the monsters level causes them to have the 85% reduction, they instead have 21.25, still significant but slightly nerfed.

2. biggest problem I have with pets is getting in the way/standing in doorways. my medic and general chars tend to run looking down shooting my feet and I often find myself shooting a pet thinking its a monster since the halo is UP and I look DOWN. a coloration or texture affect on pets may help that part, maybe players being able to pass through pets and vice versa like spider mines through blocks to help the blocking. Pets also need babysitting to keep healed... level 5 regen is not much in something like warlord wave, requiring you to keep them healed while getting bounced around and hurt yourself. rod has already been discussed. sents I think should stay where they are. I often place a sent and run around for early waves but once later waves come, I cant run around shooting. if I make a base and put a sent in it, players are often shooting along the same path and I will never get any kills, therefore never get adren, therefore never can shield blast or booster or run other adren abilities I find I need. engis just arnt as survivable outside their base as some of the other classes and wacking the sents down will just make that worse.

3. I like the idea of a specific weapon artifact. gotta make it pretty rare and even then have the type of weapon created just as rare as picking it up is. mod pickups I'd say only up to 2+max so pen 6. I think alot of times people just toss it not realizing what the numbers even mean. could we possibly have the % listed on the weapon instead of the +#? example vorpal +10 being vorpal +100, Vampiric +3 being Vampiric +9, Protection +4 being Protection +4 (ok that one didnt change). the different + meaning different % is confusing to alot of people.

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

... however i do not depend on rod, at least in my top scores you can see my rod does probably less than 30% of my kills

The only log for your AM I could see in this thread has 188 rod kils. 50%

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

... if a WM zerker gets high weps what does it mean? less kills for us. im not sure

I have changed Berserker slightly for the next build so they are not so strong long range. This may make it more balanced.

Elite wrote:

For the pets and sentinels how about tying them down to the number of kills done by the class's special weapon. .....

Interesting idea. Might work.

Elite wrote:

As for the rod, you know where I stand on that matter,....

So no triple and rod.

Trooper wrote:

1. double doubles everything except supers, trip affects everything except artifacts.

Some artifacts will work with the triple, only the superweapon ones wont.

Trooper wrote:

dd and triple dont really affect poison anyway since poison weaps dot is unaffected by the damage done... its % based off enemy health only. magic effects should stay modified otherwise its confusing... I did more damage so why shouldnt I get the benefit of it.

The double damage should double the damage, not double the magic effect - that is the job of the double magic modifier artifact. A poison weapon does normal weapon damage, which is doubled or tripled, and does poison damage which is not affected by the DD/triple, but is by the DMM.

Trooper wrote:

2. biggest problem I have with pets is getting in the way/standing in doorways.

Has anyone go any figures for pet kills? have we a problem or not?

Trooper wrote:

3. could we possibly have the % listed on the weapon instead of the +#? example vorpal +10 being vorpal +100, Vampiric +3 being Vampiric +9, Protection +4 being Protection +4 (ok that one didnt change). the different + meaning different % is confusing to alot of people.

I think have a mixture would be worse and I don't think Protection-50 would look good. Also Vampire+7 isnt about the extra damage it does, but about what health you get back from it.

in regard to the magic affect you mentioned, it doesnt double the magic affect. a little math:

flak shot normaly doing 100 dmg from and Energy +3 Flak gets an extra 9% so 109 damage with 6% of the damage becoming adren, making it 6.5 adren.

Double Modifier making it Energy 6 under same conditions is extra 18% so 118 damage, 12% of damage being adren, making it 14.2 adren.

Energy 3 Flak with double damage under same conditions as the first example makes damage 218 with 6% adren, making 13.0 adren. Double modifier still causes more adren to be given than with DD. DD is also not really player controlled, relatively speaking, while double modifier is player activated.

Heres my thoughts from mostly an AM point of view. (Granted I haven't tested any Subclasses yet since I'm not high enough but these are my observations).

Rod
I'm one of these that rely a little heavily on the rod for xp gains. I'm pretty skilled on what times its best for rod use and do get quite a few kills with it. Watching others though (besides elite obviously), I don't really see very high scores for AM's with it in general use. Rod on its own doesn't really do much and is very costly to use outside a few of the waves. If its loses its ability with the triple/double, rod might need a damage boost or a cost reduction as its a bit of a adrenaline hog on its own and takes forever to kill something.

The biggest problem I see with the dd/trip + rod combo is the sprees and not the rod combo itself since the sprees are pretty much needed to keep going. If there was no adrenaline bonus for sprees, i think the combo would be fine as it would be about a normal adrenaline drain. If any nerfing needs to be done, perhaps the damage can be changed from 10% to something like 8% of a monsters life and a adrenaline reduction from 15% to 12%. Maps also play a huge role in rod usage as big maps tend to be a nerf to the rod compared to a more smaller map like spacenoxx.

Bolt
I don't think I've seen anyone use this anymore since the major nerf it received. Having it be affected by double might get a little use back to it but on its own its too adrenaline inefficient to use right now.

Weapons

Perhaps allow the +1 spawned artifact (not the AM one) to allow weapons to go higher than it currently does. Perhaps up to 5 over the normal maximum for the weapon. And perhaps rather than having them all +1, have a random amount +0, +1, +2 even the odd +3

This one troubles me. Sure a +1 to a current weapon up to its max level is ok but expanding it beyond the max is kinda steping on the AM's feet then. AM's +1 can only happen once and its kinda there thing to run around with a weapon that is +1 over the max. If everyone gets the ability to, then the AM one will have to change to where it can happen more then once as well but then you run into other issues. One example is an Energy Flak which AM's love. Energy +4 is 8% on top of the 5% they get from the ability. If you start taking that higher, there will be other issues steming from near infinite adrenaline especially when you start factoring in the DMM for AM's. So +1 up to max drops are ok but I think having +'s beyond the normal max would create major issues unless the whole weapon effects from +'s were changed.

Piercing
Piercing needs a nerf somewhere and I think reducing the bonus damage is what is needed. Its already got a damage bonus by not being affected by DR which is all it really needs. Dunno if this is possible but you could make it more dynamic where a higher + bypasses a greater % of DR instead of always bypassing it with any +. But the 30% isnt really needed on it and 30% is one of the higher damage values on a weapon in the first place. It prob should be changed to like 1% per plus since the main bonus is from the DR bypass. It should still not be usable by the triple though.

Vorpal
I think Vorpal could use a little nerf but not too huge. For one, its limited to certain weapons, is a bit rare, and the instagib bonus on it isnt fully relyable and a bit confusing on the % due to the way the + spread is. Its part of a few weapons that dont start at +1 (starts at +6).

A +10 Vorpal is 5% instagib with 100% damage if im not mistaken and a +22 Vorpal is 17% instagib with 220% damage with DMM on a +11 Vorpal. If it needs to be changed, I say it could use with a + value change to be in line with the other magic effects and become +1 to +5 and keep the damage per plus at 10% (damage range becomes 10% to 50% and keep the instagib to 1% per plus. This way a DMM only takes it to a max of +12 (120% damage, 12% instagib instead of 220% damage and 17% instagib) and maybe make it usable with the triple (Might need to go down to +4 instead of +5 then).

Magic Type Artifacts
This idea really isn't to bad. It would certainly help out non-AM classes and it will still be like the MWM where it would be a bit random (since you have to get the one type you want to actually drop). The forseeable problems I see with this though is you will have to increase the max artifact drops because with more artifacts dropping, you'll hit the limit where no more drop (I believe this is how it works) when they are not being used. Plus its hard to pick up additional artifacts in the first place due to the limit one person can carry and having it just auto change your magic type by running over it will create issues where you don't want to change your magic type.

Increased Min Damage
Maybe a slight increase to help out the higher level players but 80% might be a bit too high. 50% might be around the magic number.

Unused Weapon Types
Some weapon types really either need a boost or removed altogether. Penetrating is a useless effect since it doesn't work on monsters, if it did it might be useful with a damage boost. Couple of the other unused ones like Sturdy really just need a damage boost. If you really wanted to work the weapon coding, you could make a few of the types actually appear as a bonus to other types. Like on a chance spawn you get a Sturdy Energy Flak +4. The sturdy wouldn't provide any damage bonus but would provide the effects of sturdy to the energy flak and would be a rare chance bonus. Couple of other effects that could appear as bonuses would could be some of the more unused effects like Knockback, Force, Protection but again would be rare and not common to show up, would not provide any damage boost and just the effect. If its possible you could add a few other bonus chance effects. Couple of examples.

Regenerating Lucky Link Gun + 3 (Uses the lucky +3 effect but also generates 1 health per sec)
Resupplying Poison Minigun +4 (Uses the Poison +4 effects but also generates a resupply 1 value to minigun ammo which I think it 4 bullets per 3 seconds. Does not affect other weapons.
Sturdy Sniper Rifle +3 (Uses the Damage +3 effects but also uses the sturdy effect.

Again they would be rare chance spawns but could give use to some of those effects that otherwise are discarded.

If it's not really possible or too complex, they either just need to be removed (to increase the chances of other types) or their damage bonus adjusted upwards. Sturdy would prob be better if it was increased from 4% per Plus (16%) to 7 or 8% per plus (28-32%).

It would be helpful to newer players if it was possible to include the current damage bonus in a parenthesis next to the name kinda like how the battle mod does it with UT3. Like Vorpal Sniper Rifle +10 (+100% damage) for example.

ya but how about this. i made it yesterday.

as you can see ist is 1/3 of my kills. mako was a special case. its so small that you can hit everything in that map. its like tutorial, that map can be deadly with rod too.. that its a fluctuation

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

ya but how about this. i made it yesterday.

-See above for images-

as you can see ist is 1/3 of my kills. mako was a special case. its so small that you can hit everything in that map. its like tutorial, that map can be deadly with rod too.. that its a fluctuation

Smaller maps is where the rod is really useful at but I've seen plenty of other classes get right around that area of XP depending on the player. I think the last time I played on Mako, Elite had around 6k XP on his WM. (Meh Elite can do 4k on any map with any class, who am I kidding.) Also maps that are open without many hallways are decent rod spots like Flat final and hanger2k3.

Still gotta remember that AM's are a bit fragile too where you need a medic/eng, roll a vamp weapon, or look for pickups.

penetrating does affect monsters, despite what the wiki says. I headshot a nali THROUGH a krall before

Dracos wrote:

Heres my thoughts from mostly an AM point of view.

Some good balanced thoughts there Dracos.

Dracos wrote:

....The biggest problem I see with the dd/trip + rod combo is the sprees and not the rod combo itself since the sprees are pretty much needed to keep going. ...

Agreed. But I can't nerf the sprees - that would get me in even more trouble with the high levels.

Dracos wrote:

Weapons
...... So +1 up to max drops are ok but I think having +'s beyond the normal max would create major issues unless the whole weapon effects from +'s were changed.

You are probably right, although the +1 spawned artifacts currently go to max+1.

Dracos wrote:

Piercing
Piercing needs a nerf somewhere and I think reducing the bonus damage is what is needed. Its already got a damage bonus by not being affected by DR which is all it really needs. Dunno if this is possible but you could make it more dynamic where a higher + bypasses a greater % of DR instead of always bypassing it with any +. But the 30% isnt really needed on it and 30% is one of the higher damage values on a weapon in the first place. It prob should be changed to like 1% per plus since the main bonus is from the DR bypass. It should still not be usable by the triple though.

On wave 16, monsters have at least 32*3.5=112 DR, so for every player every none-piercing weapon is running at least at -16%. For a player to get DB 80 he will probably be at around level 40, so monsters should be expected to be level 42, giving them 147DR - so the piercing effect by itself acts as (147-80)/2 = +33%. It doesn't need more than that - certainly not an extra +30% on top.

Dracos wrote:

Vorpal
....If it needs to be changed, I say it could use with a + value change to be in line with the other magic effects and become +1 to +5 and keep the damage per plus at 10%

I would tend to agree with that. And let the triple run with it.

Dracos wrote:

Increased Min Damage
Maybe a slight increase to help out the higher level players but 80% might be a bit too high. 50% might be around the magic number.

Based on the best possible case of -33% above for wave 16, I would suggest perhaps as high as 50% to 65% of the initial damage would be more balanced than 80%.

Dracos wrote:

Unused Weapon Types
Some weapon types really either need a boost or removed altogether. ...

Regenerating Lucky Link Gun + 3 (Uses the lucky +3 effect but also generates 1 health per sec)
Resupplying Poison Minigun +4 (Uses the Poison +4 effects but also generates a resupply 1 value to minigun ammo which I think it 4 bullets per 3 seconds. Does not affect other weapons.
Sturdy Sniper Rifle +3 (Uses the Damage +3 effects but also uses the sturdy effect.

Some useful ideas there. We might need to move this one to another thread at some point.

Dracos wrote:

It would be helpful to newer players if it was possible to include the current damage bonus in a parenthesis next to the name kinda like how the battle mod does it with UT3. Like Vorpal Sniper Rifle +10 (+100% damage) for example.

Possibly, although that might be a problem given where the naming code is buried. An alternative would be like I do for the Skilled Weapons class - when you switch to the weapon, display an extra text message for a while.

Trooper wrote:

penetrating does affect monsters, despite what the wiki says. I headshot a nali THROUGH a krall before

I think you are right.

Thank you Hatter for posting that picture, as you can see the rod is the highest scoring artifact/weapon on his scoreboard. And I assume he had a vorpal shock to rack up those shock kills, so in other words he only used the double damage and did not activate the triple since the vorpal cannot be used with the triple. This tactic which is totally fair game explains why the rod kill are not as high as they can be. Also even on maps like these say there was an extreme AM, meaning they rely more on artifacts instead of weapons, he would have stronger artifacts meaning a stronger rod. If an AM can easily get the rod to the top on the scoreboard how can you hesitate to think that an EAM won't. The disabling of the triple from the rod would be a slight nerf for the AM as they could still use the Double Damage but it would be a critical hit for the EAM, forcing them to use different artifacts which was the real intention in the first place. As Hatter's picture demonstrates he most likely had a vorpal with constant takings of the double damage, and his score near 3k i would say is balanced. See, so without even the use of the triple, imagine how much more powerful if the triple was used.

Main problem: triple/rod not DD/rod

Elite wrote:

Thank you Hatter for posting that picture, as you can see the rod is the highest scoring artifact/weapon on his scoreboard. And I assume he had a vorpal shock to rack up those shock kills, so in other words he only used the double damage and did not activate the triple since the vorpal cannot be used with the triple. This tactic which is totally fair game explains why the rod kill are not as high as they can be. Also even on maps like these say there was an extreme AM, meaning they rely more on artifacts instead of weapons, he would have stronger artifacts meaning a stronger rod. If an AM can easily get the rod to the top on the scoreboard how can you hesitate to think that an EAM won't. The disabling of the triple from the rod would be a slight nerf for the AM as they could still use the Double Damage but it would be a critical hit for the EAM, forcing them to use different artifacts which was the real intention in the first place. As Hatter's picture demonstrates he most likely had a vorpal with constant takings of the double damage, and his score near 3k i would say is balanced. See, so without even the use of the triple, imagine how much more powerful if the triple was used.

Main problem: triple/rod not DD/rod

If the spree's can't be altered, then this might be the route to take. Take Triple off affecting any of the artifacts and allow DD to work with any of them (bolt, beam, blasts, fireball, CL) and as you posted above Szlat, have triple mainly affect weapon damage. Granted this would basically make Triple just about useless to Extreme AM since their damage with weapons is already cut. Since DD isn't technically useable on command (Damage Sphere comes to mind or have someone remote damage you), the DD/Rod combo should be fine.

actually i can prove that rod is no longer needed in my game play. i bet 20 bucks that i can match the score in flat 2.8 points and get more exp by using only beam. i will try to not use not even a signle time the rod and only the beam im sure i can bet by far! i have look out in my screenshots folder, but unlucky me i only have ooold pictures. you will see szlat that my main weapon is beam all the way (except as elite pointed when shock or e flak is arround and even so the e flak is only used to get adren no to get the kill)

Well Sentinels as far as I know they are good the way they are, Engineer class with sentinels have been around quite long and no one has complained about it, I mean why reduce the damage of sentinels If they have been ok from the start, the sentinel specialist its name says it all, It specializes in sentinels and his handgun damage fire power of the character get reduced, so their job is to build a base put offense or defense sents around it to protect base, Its a Damage Dealer and supportive class. If you dont like the idea that they camp on their bases and the sents do the kills well, you can add to the sentinels a health timer, When the sent specialist spawn a sent will be with 100% full health but they will start dying slowly, each sent health will be drained as time passes this will encourage sent specialists to get out of the base and heal the sentinels, or to spawn a new one. The sent specialists dont have adrenaline supply skills to regain health or healing skills, so they have to be hiding in their bases using the sentinels as primary weapon and to protect themselves, for me thats a new gamestyle almost all of the classes are running seeking for monsters but this class is really different. Variety is the key.
About the pets I have a char lv 52 with 3 skaarjs and everytime I play with it my monsters do around 20 or 25 kills in all map, they die so fast starting wave 10 to 16, so I have to do my Exp killing with my healing weapon almost all the time, the problem with monsters is that they block base entrances, weapon fire, and some times they are annoying when they block you a passage. Maybe make them like we can pass through them and our fire as well, In other server they had a mutator that all teammates and pets could walk through themselves like If they were ghosts that really helped alot when shooting deemers and a player or a pet was blocking the way this will reduce selfkilling by shooting deemers.