Difficulty level

I dont have any problem losing the game as a team on wave 10. I do have a problem when my low level Loaded Artifact player is dead withing 15 seconds on every wave after 10 unless I go hide in a corner somewhere or translocate like a maniac trying to survive. I might as well quit and rejoin on the next map. Its no even that I can stand off and fight from a distance with the LA player. Some Nali will spawn behind me and I'll be dead before I can even turn around. That being said, I like the challenge while playing with my high level Loaded weapons player. I think the change throws off the balance of the classes a bit.

shimmyNshake
shimmy-LA

The players of DC have become SOFT! I remember the bad old days when it was a challenge just getting to wave 16, let alone winning a map. And lets not forget UT2k3 invasion. Wave 20+ and it was basically: Wave will begin in 5...4...3...2...1.........You have been killed!

I voted to increase the difficulty.

I have now played 2 full maps on the new difficulty ( LA lvl 78 ), one after the other. We won both of them, relatively easily, with I think about 10-12 people on.

One of them (BR-Anubis) I picked up a redeemer in wave 1, but never found myself in a situation where it would take out more than one monster if I fired it, so I didn't. If I can go 16 waves without needing to fire a redeemer, it's not too difficult yet.

(To be fair, I did have a poison shock and a vorpal LG, which helped, but I ended about the middle of the scoresheet, so the wins can't be put down to those weapons)

Shantara wrote:

I want to clarify something. I feel that people think that surviving wave 16 every time is the norm. That is in fact part of the reason for the change- where is the challenge if you know that every time you will win the game?

If sometimes we don't win, I think that's good. There was a time when we didn't always survive wave 5, let alone 16. Something to keep in mind while you are voting.

I totally agree. The games I have played, it has been fair on the amount of wins. I would say if there are more then 10 players 20% of the time you do not win. Thats fair. Yes I might be laying on the ground or my face stuck in a rock, but hey atleast we win as a team.

Shantara wrote:

I feel that people think that surviving wave 16 every time is the norm.

I certainly don't think that. From a personal point of view, I considered my AM lucky to survive through 12 (though 13-15 I was pretty safe on previously) or 16. Even my 115th level WM (and my Medic) would find 16 a challenge before. I haven't played him on the new difficulty setting, but I'm fairly certain he'd find it more challenging now. Now, my AM still gives the top scorers a run for their money - until he starts dying solidly on most maps, usually from wave 11 on up, and usually has had a bad time of it before then. My Medic has had not a horrible time, but I find myself running away shooting at my feet more now than I used to. I will admit that as a group someone was usually winning the map, and from that raw data aspect, the new difficulty level may have been needed.

shimmyNshake wrote:

I think the change throws off the balance of the classes a bit.

This has been my experience so far. I would ask that the PTB at least give this idea repectable consideration.

Szlat wrote:

If I can go 16 waves without needing to fire a redeemer, it's not too difficult yet.

This experience from my point of view is very map dependent, and, to borrow a line from many a commercial: "Results not typical." First off, I find myself equally capable of dying to one monster one certain waves, let alone 10. Second, the more open the map, the better off everyone tends to be - less likely to find yourself cornered (not "unlikely", just "less likely").

It just seems that previously we had a great balance where, while there was an issue with how well a group would do with certain maps, it's more sharply defined that before, and where the classes appeared more balanced, there appears to be less balance than before.

But again, I've also said

other things that may be more true than my subjective observations.

One thing I have noticed, it is more difficult to hand out weapons.

It used to be you could stand at a weapon spawn point for a whole wave handing out a weapon. Not now. Stand still that long, and you're dead!

And between rounds there isn't time - not if you want to start the next wave with a reasonable amount of health.

shimmyNshake wrote:

I dont have any problem losing the game as a team on wave 10. I do have a problem when my low level Loaded Artifact player is dead withing 15 seconds on every wave after 10 unless I go hide in a corner somewhere or translocate like a maniac trying to survive. I might as well quit and rejoin on the next map. Its no even that I can stand off and fight from a distance with the LA player. Some Nali will spawn behind me and I'll be dead before I can even turn around. That being said, I like the challenge while playing with my high level Loaded weapons player. I think the change throws off the balance of the classes a bit.

We've all been there shimmy, I hid many times as a low level player... I still do when I play medic.

BotFodder wrote:

Shantara wrote:

I feel that people think that surviving wave 16 every time is the norm.

I certainly don't think that. From a personal point of view, I considered my AM lucky to survive through 12 (though 13-15 I was pretty safe on previously) or 16.

I think she was talking about good players can survive that long

not everyone.

FodderFigure wrote:

I think she was talking about good players can survive that long not everyone.

i like the new difficulty setting........coz it actually makes me a bit careful while playing with my WM and it also makes me hustle when i'm playing as my medic (i have exp healing 9 which makes me lazy every now and then

) B4 this adjustment in difficulty, ALOT and i mean ALOT of times ppl win the game, like 90% winning percentage, This actually makes it a tad more challenging. It's just not dat friendly to low-level players but oh well, everyone has been there........and if they don't want to do the exp grind, then its their problem.

Is there any information stored about the result of games - is it possible to find out what percentage of games have completed wave 16 since the difficulty level was increased?

The difficulty level was increased?? Gee, I really have to lay off the rum and coke when I play. >

It seems fairly clear that we need to do something for the low level players to keep them alive, and keep things fun. That has always been a problem. This change has brought that problem to light more.

We'll see what we can do about the low level players, and deal with it in a seperate thread.

For players above level 40, how do you feel about this change?

I really like the harder monsters my lower lvl characters arnt set up to handle it (0 health bonus) but eventually that will change. One thing I did notice was that certain maps are going to be very hard to beat due to lack of pickups or just bad layout / flow which isnt something that adjusting skill level of the monsters will do anything about. Also LA is at a severe disadvantage as far as getting healed, maybe a booster type artifact that could be turned on/off but put a serious dent in their precious adren would help out there.

Continuum wrote:

LA is at a severe disadvantage as far as getting healed, maybe a booster type artifact that could be turned on/off but put a serious dent in their precious adren would help out there.

Beyond booster, AMs aren't going to get a mechanic to heal themselves. That's quite simply the end of this story.

I am discussing things in the developers forum to enhance medics and AMs.

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

For players above level 40, how do you feel about this change?

I've played several maps now on the new diff lvl. IMO, winning the match is greatly dependent upon the map being played. Won a couple matches with only 5 or 6 people on, with me being the highest lvl player (85).

Some maps lend themselves to helping the players and some don't (just as those same maps did pre-change). It seems to me, however, that the difficulty of the map itself is now magnified significantly post-adjustment. Particularly waves 11,12,13. Splash damage from enemy rockets on tight maps, for instance, is pretty rough. Also, it's tougher to get out of a tight spot with how the monsters are spawning.

By contrast, some of the skaarj dodging skills are nullified by tighter maps. Titan waves are about the same.....big, slow hunks of meat to mow down. :> I really haven't noticed much, if any, decline in the overall scores of the higher level players either.

FWIW, I happen to like the new diff lvl. It used to be pretty commonplace to win a match if there were at least one or two higher lvl players on. Not to mention that it is refreshing to have to change my tactics as well as rethink what I will spend skill points on next.

Oh, and low lvl players are definitely having a harder time staying alive.