Adren Costs adjustments?

With the vote on the difficulty going the way it is, can I suggest (or at least open for debate) the idea of bumping some of the adren costs (mainly the globe, but perhaps the triple) down just slightly? I know it was a bit low prior to 200, but maybe if we could find a middle-point somewhere ...

With monsters becoming harder to hit and doing more damage to players, as an AM with a flak e3, while using the globe I still run out of adren quickly on 12 (sometimes earlier), 15, and 16. And yes, 15 used to be liveable, but now it's just as difficult as 16 sometimes.

And don't even get me started on the titan waves ...

I haven't played in the last few days, so I cannot say if, or how, they should be adjusted.

I remember reading in another post that the difficulty changes were making the most impact on low level players, and that higher level players were not affected as much.

Changing the adrenaline costs will give most benefit to players with high adrenaline limits, and to players with LA2 or LA3. These by definition will not be the low level players.

I suppose the other side of the coin is that players with surge, leech and drip can more quickly regain their adrenaline, so it draining faster isn't so important.

So, I suppose I don't know

But before 200, the triple was way too powerful, and dominated the game too much. I would not want it to go back that way.

How does the current difficulty compare to invasion with no RPG?

I don't know ... and any description of experience I would offer would be subjective ... but you kind of asked:

I'm like 73rd level. D3, LA3, 150 Adren, Drip/Surge/Leech all 2.

I think it a miracle now if I survive 6, or last more than 30 seconds on any wave over 12.

At a certain point I need my Globe not to survive while attacking, but to survive while running away from a batch of monsters.

I'm not so focused on the triple, though I did include it as it might help somehow. But the globe has always been a fast drain. It's just that prior to this skill adjustment, you might find the opportunity to turn it off for more than a second on even the hardest waves. Now? Most maps, particularly with like 8 or less on, it feels like if I turn it off, I die. If I don't turn it off, I run out of adren and die.

It just feels like that I've been hitting a brick wall at certain points when I play (especially if I've been doing well up to that point), and as I've done a bit of programming, I've had my quota of brick walls.

I'm willing to admit the possibiliities that I'm just not that good a player at the harder skill levels, or that my previous experience has skewed my impression of what life should be like at the levels my characters are at. Or maybe I'm truly experiencing the "difficulty" inherent in the AM. But the monsters are moving faster, shooting more accurately, and doing more damage when they hit. With no way to get health back, all an AM has is a way to stop taking damage.

I definitely agree that the difficulty changes the game in a lot of ways, especially for LAs as they were always a little shaky on the later waves anyway.

I am level 61, D3, LA3, 150 Adren, Drip/Surge/Leech all 2. Currently working on the health bonus.

Having just survived through a wave 12 through sheer luck and running away, yes, it is a lot harder.

I was the last one alive, and the map was StalwartXLClassic. Major weapons? Null flak 6... and thank god for the healing rocket 3 I picked up.

So, everyone dies more or less in inverse order according to levels. I try to kill a few with the flak, but it's too slow, I'm losing adrenaline and there are at least 5 warlords on me right now, bouncing me around. I run & trans to the deemer, which thankfully is there. Queen spawns, I use globe and kill her when she drops shield. If it weren't for her dropping the shield, I would've been a goner.

Now at least 10 warlords are coming in the door. I thought there might be about 10. I have a little over 50 adren, so I run over there, and when they come in and start shooting around the corner, I pop on the globe (after sustaining a little damage) and deemer them.

Boom. 100+ adren. I thought I had taken them all out, but no, there are 10 more. I try to kill them with the null flak, but again it's too slow and I'm bouncing around. Running low on adren, I trans around over to the rocket, and shoot myself with the healing rocket, as I was down to something like 70 health.

Next comes a big trans-around where I almost die several times, grabbing the keg, the double, and the keg again, globing and killing a few of them (the double helps), and then healing when I take damage. During this time I almost die by self-nullage, but barely survive.

I take out the last few monsters with my piercing mini, and grab a few GJs.

That is much worse than it used to be. Before Mystr. E would've had no trouble surviving along with me, or at least I think so. Before I wouldn't have had to run away so much. And if it weren't for the lucky pop of getting a healing rocket 3, I would've been a goner.

As far as strategy for an LA goes, I'm thinking that the nulls, freezings, and maybe even forces are more useful now, with the monsters dodging a lot. I've also had to start globing on waves that used to be no problem, such as waves 8 and 13, esp. if the medic doesn't come by. The titan waves are also becoming more like guerilla warfare* - do a little damage then pop back behind the corner. They're not only more accurate, but seem to be more inclined to throw rocks and less inclined to decide to just sit there. I considered globing a possibility, until I realized that it just wasn't going to cut it as far as adrenaline consumption goes.

I will agree that it is becoming hard to hit the warlords and a few other monsters with the flak and link now, and that is infuriating especially if you're globing. There isn't really much of a way to counteract that, without null/freezing them, which is a rare find anyway. And a vamp? Even rarer. Healing? Usually not worth trying for, though as a rocket launcher I wouldn't want much else.

As far as suggesting changes goes... if anything I would nudge vamp and/or healing (healing probably being the less unbalancing choice) down a notch on the rarity board - making them a little less rare. With one or even both, the game suddenly opens up for an LA - they can take damage if they can do damage. It means running away, yes, but at least there is survival.

I would not like the triple or globe to have to change in cost of adren/second... especially not the triple. If any change were to be made I would suggest nudging the globe down to 10 per second, although I personally think that putting it at the same cost as the triple is bad. It's supposed to be real costly, only for the few seconds at a time when you can afford to use it - and to push it down to 10 I think would make it too easy.

Without a doubt, LA has become a much harder class to play. My average score is down, and I am dying a lot more often (which makes me love denial 3 all the more).

I'm not sure about the high end of the level spectrum, but I think LW may have claimed the lead for being the better class for points. I can still outscore LWs, but again, it is through sheer luck like the story which I told above.

I will play more before I pass more judgment upon this... but the change in difficulty has definitely changed the way the game is played.

* I hope I'm using that term right.

kyraeu wrote:

As far as suggesting changes goes... if anything I would nudge vamp and/or healing (healing probably being the less unbalancing choice) down a notch on the rarity board - making them a little less rare. With one or even both, the game suddenly opens up for an LA - they can take damage if they can do damage. It means running away, yes, but at least there is survival.

I would not like the triple or globe to have to change in cost of adren/second... especially not the triple. If any change were to be made I would suggest nudging the globe down to 10 per second, although I personally think that putting it at the same cost as the triple is bad. It's supposed to be real costly, only for the few seconds at a time when you can afford to use it - and to push it down to 10 I think would make it too easy.

I agree - it might be better to adjust the weapons rather than the adrenline usage.

Perhaps increase the magic effect of poison, null entropy, freezing, knockback, perhaps increase the max modifiers for some classes and perhaps the amount of damage done, and yes, perhaps more frequent vamp, healing and vorpal

We are not changing the costs of the AM. We have it tuned this way to balance out the other classes.