SubClass Balance Issues

One other thing I kept running into last night... in the middle of crowds of monsters, artifacts like bolt, beam, and the blast all routinely gave me the "You cannot use this artifact again yet" or what ever it says.

Szlat could the primary fire rate of the link turret please be increased to original firing rate. Also when you mentioned having turrets on vehicles that would be actually fun but I don't think it would balance things out between the vehicle & turret specialist with the sentinel specialists, sounds good should give it a try but something more has to be done. And triple does not seem to work in the link turret.

Perhaps giving a test try with the ion tank and ion cannon? or the auto pilot turrets but that would still leave the vehicle specialist underpowered.

Also could the Poison blast be moved to the Healer Master instead of the AM's, it would be a perfect addition to the healer's arsenal since it would fit its criteria. Besides the AM's barely ever use it.

Elite wrote:

Szlat could the primary fire rate of the link turret please be increased to original firing rate.

Druid thinks in general that link fire causes some of the lag, so I might not put it all the waay back. However, I will have to cut the damage each projectile does. Is it too weak at the moment, or does it just feel wrong firing so slowly?

Elite wrote:

And triple does not seem to work in the link turret.

ok, I'll add to the bug list

Elite wrote:

Perhaps giving a test try with the ion tank and ion cannon? or the auto pilot turrets but that would still leave the vehicle specialist underpowered.

I am looking at the auto-pilot turrets for the Turret Specialist, but am not against the ion cannon/turret - I just haven't had time to try them yet.

Elite wrote:

Also could the Poison blast be moved to the Healer Master instead of the AM's, it would be a perfect addition to the healer's arsenal since it would fit its criteria. Besides the AM's barely ever use it.

Could be on both.

Yes it just feels wrong firing slowly
hmm and perhaps both AMs and healer classes can have the poison blast

Hmm Greg was talking of a confusion artifact in the rod and piercing thread... But was that for the AM because that artifact would not only fit perfectly with the extreme healer but also because that class needs more things added. But perhaps we can modify this ability so it can fit with both classes:

AM: the artifact would be called CONFUSION and like Greg said it would confuse the monsters into attacking the nearest thing to them whether that be another person, monster, or sentinel. Or it could just confuse the monsters to attack nothing just making them walk around confused not knowing what to attack

Extreme Healer: now I got this idea from L4D2 for this subclass they could have an artifact similar to a boomer bile which not only confuses monsters but say you hit a Titan with the bile then all the monsters within a certain radius will be drawn to that location and be forced to attack the Titan. This could create an imterestig gameplay. Roadkill and fodder should know what talking about :p

Hehehe the good old "bottle o' puke"
I like that idea, maybe not to attack another monster (would be not like a healing class) , but a defensive ability .
All the monsters within a certain radius would be attracted to the spot for a certain time, allowing players to regroup/get healed.
What would happen if you throw it into a pit/over the edge of a space map though ?
Played the WM/AM subclass and rather enjoyed it, gets adrenaline very slowly thought would like surge but it might be too powerful , how about drip lvl 1?

Well I'll just repeat this since I did not see them in the balance and bug changes.

These 2 changes are very important and need to be changed ASAP.

The advanced monster damage should be 5% instead of 10% as suggested by greg and I still think it should be knocked down to 15 levels instead of 20. At the moment Medics with this much power can score 4k easily

The rod must be taken from the beserker class, it can also score around 4k easily.

Monster Master : three lava skaarj are just too many (they are killing machines)

I guess I'll be the first Under 200 player to post to this thread.

I just finished a map that had two monster masters on and with that there were 6 Lava Scaarj's running around. They Killed pretty much anything in sight and with only one or two hits.

I was playing my level 175 engineer with a energy turret set up. I noticed an major drop in play. For the set up I had, I routinely get better than 1200 kills for this map and that was mostly by myself without any support for another engineer. This time my score was 610 kills. I was the High scorer below the monster master with most of the rest below 400 or so.

I've been try to work my Engineer up to above 200 so I could try out some of the Sub-Classes. But At this rate it's going to be a while.

My concern is if the sub classes are going to cut my score 50% Which I feel I'm a pretty good player, whats it going to do to the guys that are below level 70 and how is it going to effect them leveling up.

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]
My concern is if the sub classes are going to cut my score 50% Which I feel I'm a pretty good player, whats it going to do to the guys that are below level 70 and how is it going to effect them leveling up.

It used to be: "There goes my score. Elite just joined."
Now it is: "...The subclasses are playing."

greg11 wrote:

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]
My concern is if the sub classes are going to cut my score 50% Which I feel I'm a pretty good player, whats it going to do to the guys that are below level 70 and how is it going to effect them leveling up.

It used to be: "There goes my score. Elite just joined."
Now it is: "...The subclasses are playing."

Elite wrote:

Well I'll just repeat this since I did not see them in the balance and bug changes.

The advanced monster damage should be 5% instead of 10% as suggested by greg and I still think it should be knocked down to 15 levels instead of 20. At the moment Medics with this much power can score 4k easily

The rod must be taken from the beserker class, it can also score around 4k easily.

Sorry, I hadn't updated the Development log properly - have done so now.

The rod has been removed from the Berserker. In my mind, I put it in with the Extremes and Specialists - but you are right, I should have clarified it.

The Monster Damage is now 5% per level, not 10%. It is still 20 levels at the moment.
The Lava Skaarj have been set to 10 points each, requiring level 20. Do I need to increase them to 11 or 12 points? Are they too strong and killing the game, or do we need to see what they are like with the half extra damage?

I believe the SubClasses shouldn't be stronger than the original classes - just different. Sounds at the moment that the Extreme Monsters is too powerful. The nerfs currently pending are:

Monster Damage dropped to 5% per level from 10%

Loaded Healing level 1 not 2

Regen now 2 not 5

No rod any more

Lava skaarj more expensive
Will that be sufficient?

We will have to see how that works out in the next build

I think the out of bounds should be taken off for all land vehicles or at least for the land vehicles that the vehicle specialist creates. Those vehicles are it's life and when you are not able to be in the vehicle because of the warning it becomes a nuisance, and you tend to die a lot easier.

Also the goliath's max health is 1600 hp while the paladin's health is 2400 hp shouldn't they both have roughly the same hp? The paladin without any construction health bonus starts at 600 while the goliath starts out at 400. Perhaps just increasing the goliath to 600 base health would solve this problem. That extra health does make a big difference when in the middle of warlords.

Szlat,

Somehow my level 130+ engineer was able to sell and then buy the turret specialist.........

Also, you might want to shorten the length of the link turret alt-fire (stream) as I was able to reach from the lower tunnel past the picket fence on UrbanBay.

I believe the SubClasses shouldn't be stronger than the original classes - just different. Sounds at the moment that the Extreme Monsters is too powerful. The nerfs currently pending are:

Monster Damage dropped to 5% per level from 10%

Loaded Healing level 1 not 2

Regen now 2 not 5

No rod any more

Lava skaarj more expensive
Will that be sufficient?

Yes, Lava skaarj are a bit overpowered. I had 3 of them pretty much single-handedly winning a game today.

We really should be limited to one at a time. Perhaps set a point cost of 16?

That said, I'm going to enjoy playing with 3 in the meantime. Nothing like watching a group of titans just melt in front of you.