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Old Post -- NoCamping rules?  XML
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TheDruidXpawX

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So here's how they work.

If you're within a "1250" visible range of a super weapon for 20 seconds you get warned you're near a special object for 15 seconds, then you die.

If you're in an area that the AI cannot get to for 20 seconds, you will be warned for an additional 15 seconds, then you die.

What does that mean?

Well the in game AI works off of what are called Navigation Points. If there is no navigation point within a certain area, the AI physically cannot get there (It cant fly there and it cant walk there). It might be able to shoot at it, but it can't get to it by any means.

I may make one tweak later today where if you are in one of those locations, and a monster is within your visible range, that it suspends the countdown until you cannot see a monster anymore at which point it would continue. Because if you can see a monster, it can also see you and shoot at you.

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TheDruidXpawX

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I'm not saying you cant be near the nuke... I'm not saying you cant go out of bounds. I'm saying if you do so for 35 seconds, you'll be dead.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
Deunan

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TheDruidXpawX wrote:
So here's how they work.
If you're within a "1250" visible range of a super weapon for 20 seconds you get warned you're near a special object for 15 seconds, then you die.

 


By no means is this post meant to make anybody respond with Negativity, So please don't respond unless it is considerate.

I like the whole Idea of this Mod. I hear enough people on the server always saying "Stop Camping this, Stop Camping that". There are so many new people coming and Consistantly Camping.

This Mod helps do that work for us!

However, think that people might have a problem going onto the roof of Metallurgy or In Morpheous 3 while we are on the ledges. In Iron Diety, the safe spot is in the area of the deemer.

In my opinion, I didn't see a problem before w/being out of bounds. i just saw problems w/people camping. Maybe it can be tweaked idividually with each map, but that would take a lot of work.
Maybe we can reconsider removing the Out of Bounds MOD??

Maybe for some maps you can lower the "Visible Range #"

There is usually Web Admins on most of the time, they keep an eye on any out of bounds issues.

At the same time, I can see how this Mod encourages people to get out and fight! Yet it might take the fun away for people that are starting out new.

Whats your take?

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edomingox

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this is all good for high level characters but the low levels will have problems. for instance, i couldnt survive on wave 16 on mettalurgy unless i sniped from the roof. but now i can.

I think the out of bounds warning should be removed.

The deemer camping kill is good. it keeps them from staying in one place too long, but eventually, people will see a way around it, like staying just outside the range of the warning.

Plus, this mainly applies to the newbies. if we use this mod, it will most likely discourage them from playing on this server. another thing to consider, maybe just give a warning rather than killing them. then with enough warnings, just ban them.

but, also, if you are gonna have the deemer camping kill, you might as well get the Agent Smith mod where he comes to kill you for camping the deemer. That would make it more interesting.

the only problem i foresee is certain maps where the safe point is near a deemer, such as Irondeity and Deck17.

Maybe see if you can just suspend the countdown for respawn of the deemer if someone is within range. that way you dont have to tell anybody about that and people will eventually stop camping and move on. but include the warning too. maybe make the warning delay for 30 seconds.

personally, i dont really care if people camp the deemer. that's time they are wasting while i kill more monsters.

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TheDruidXpawX

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I'd like to first express that I didn't want to write this mutator and have put it off for a year in hopes these problems would cease. This code wasn't particularly game enhancing, nor was it exciting to write. In fact it's about the same as the Player Agreement mutator. I wrote it because I'm exhausted of telling people "Get back inside the map," or "Quit camping the nuke," so I spent about 14 hours yesterday writing this mutator.

We have had to delete all sorts of maps that we love to play because people find these out of bounds spots and exploit them. Some of these maps I really enjoyed, and would like to bring back now that this mutator is here; however, if I take this mutator off, not only will we not be able to bring these back, we will have to begin deleting maps like mad. Some of your favorites will be the first to go. In addition, we've always been slow to adopt new maps because we had to spend lots of time testing them to make sure they were not exploitable in these ways.

Admins are here to play, not to constantly police the server. This change removes the need for admins to constantly police these rules. WebAdmins can't see the current game, and hence can't see out of bounds players.

Previously there has had to be a lot of subjectivity on the part of the admins as to what is fair, and what is not fair. This removes the subjectivity entirely, and makes the rules entirely objective. The server has set logic that will encourage players to play by the rules.

After all, if a monster cannot get to where you are to kill you, is it really fair that you can go there and kill the monster? Usually these are areas of the map that the creators had no intention of letting you into and probably had left open due to a mistake.

I guess ultimately, I'm really having a hard time understanding the problem here. After you're warned, you have 15 seconds to move along. After a second somewhere else you can even go back. No one complains on maps that say "You've been targeted by an orbital ion satellite. You have 9 seconds to move," no one complains on a map when you fall in the lava and die, no one complains when a particular area hurts when you stand on it. This isn't all that different, is it?

I've even received hate mail about this mutator today. If ya'all can come up with some constructive ideas on how we can prevent these types of map exploits, I'm all ears. This is the best I have, short of seriously hampering the game for everyone by removing the translocator, boots of flight, electormagnet, and numerous maps.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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Deunan wrote:
Yet it might take the fun away for people that are starting out new.  

edomingox wrote:
this is all good for high level characters but the low levels will have problems. for instance, i couldnt survive on wave 16 on mettalurgy unless i sniped from the roof. but now i can.  


I'd like to address this problem seperately. I'm intending to give players lower than say... level 20 some special starting out abilities to keep them alive longer.

I guess what I'm saying with this is, if you're a good unreal player, and even with your skill you can't survive without these areas, something else is unbalanced. I've known that low levels and new players have a hard time surviving, and I intend to do something else about it.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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Deunan wrote:
In my opinion, I didn't see a problem before w/being out of bounds. 


It's because we've combatted it on numerous fronts. We delete maps that are easy to exploit, even when they're fun. We encourage people in good behavior, and for some we sternly warn them. I'll bet 1/5th of our banned list is people who wouldn't obey these rules.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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I have had one thought. If you're out of bounds or near a superweapon too long, I could have it find you a start point and teleport you there instead of killing you.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
emetakleze

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That would be cool! Quite flustrating to the rule breakers I would assume! Could you do it without a warning? And perhapse, now I don't know if this would be possable, send them to a "penalty box" like area? Maybe above the map, so they can see all the fun without being able to join in untill the next wave?(with a message that does not go away like, "you are here because of your actions, follow the rules" or something to that effect. Not exactly killing, but making it flustrating enough to put the point across.

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klok718

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why not just teleport campers to the waypoint with the most monsters near it? "if you dont want to fight we will put you in the fight"

[edit] or do a reverse booster thing there there sheleds then life are slowly drained?

[edit] or freez them in place till the end of the wave and change there skin so they look like a little tent! at the start of the next wave they dould respawn like they died in the prevous wave.
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Deunan

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Dru wrote:

I have had one thought. If you're out of bounds or near a superweapon too long, I could have it find you a start point and teleport you there instead of killing you.
 

I think that's a fabulous idea!

Dru wrote:

I spent about 14 hours yesterday writing this mutator.
 

I think the time was well spent and hope I didn't come across any other way.
I agree with it as far as the camping issue is concerned.

Dru wrote:

Deunan wrote:
In my opinion, I didn't see a problem before w/being out of bounds.


It's because we've combatted it on numerous fronts. We delete maps that are easy to exploit, even when they're fun. We encourage people in good behavior, and for some we sternly warn them. I'll bet 1/5th of our banned list is people who wouldn't obey these rules.
 

Thank you for clarifying. I don't always know what goes on behind the scenes. This helps me better understand the need for the out of bounds rule.

Klok718 wrote:

why not just teleport campers to the waypoint with the most monsters near it?
 

I like this idea. It is sooo evil, but in a fun way!


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Szlat

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I think this mod is a great idea.
Being out of bounds is like cheating, and if you have to cheat to win, what's the point in playing? So thanks for the hard work Dru.

At the risk of being even more abused, can you also apply the countdown if a translocator is out of bounds? I am not so worried about translocators near superweapons - that is just an efficient way of periodically checking.

But I can imagine people being out of bounds, waiting til the countdown occurs, jumping down and immediately teleporting back. So, if it kept counting while their teleporter was there....

Perhaps a better, but more extreme, enhancement would be to make the out of bounds seconds reset only on the next wave, rather than when they enter normal space? So if someone returns out of bounds, the count continues from where they were.
klok718

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pardon my stupidity but can someone explain "out of bounds" and "off the map" ops:
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edomingox

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the teleporting idea is good.

i also like the idea of being able to stay in an out of bounds area if the monster can see and shoot you. i.e. the top of the flag statues on CTF HallofAnubis is considered out of bounds and it kills you there. That spot is open for monsters to shoot you.

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PoisonMushroom

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Dang Dru...That must have been a lot of work. But what must be done, must be done. I am all for this, but I feel bad for Dru having to work so hard...

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