Latest posts for the topic "Old Post -- NoCamping rules?"

Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

So here's how they work. If you're within a "1250" visible range of a super weapon for 20 seconds you get warned you're near a special object for 15 seconds, then you die. If you're in an area that the AI cannot get to for 20 seconds, you will be warned for an additional 15 seconds, then you die. What does that mean? Well the in game AI works off of what are called Navigation Points. If there is no navigation point within a certain area, the AI physically cannot get there (It cant fly there and it cant walk there). It might be able to shoot at it, but it can't get to it by any means. I may make one tweak later today where if you are in one of those locations, and a monster is within your visible range, that it suspends the countdown until you cannot see a monster anymore at which point it would continue. Because if you can see a monster, it can also see you and shoot at you.

Re:NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

I'm not saying you cant be near the nuke... I'm not saying you cant go out of bounds. I'm saying if you do so for 35 seconds, you'll be dead.

NoCamping rules?

Deunan — GMT

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

So here's how they work. If you're within a "1250" visible range of a super weapon for 20 seconds you get warned you're near a special object for 15 seconds, then you die.

By no means is this post meant to make anybody respond with Negativity, So please don't respond unless it is considerate. :) I like the whole Idea of this Mod. I hear enough people on the server always saying "Stop Camping this, Stop Camping that". There are so many new people coming and Consistantly Camping. This Mod helps do that work for us! However, think that people might have a problem going onto the roof of Metallurgy or In Morpheous 3 while we are on the ledges. In Iron Diety, the safe spot is in the area of the deemer. In my opinion, I didn't see a problem before w/being out of bounds. i just saw problems w/people camping. Maybe it can be tweaked idividually with each map, but that would take a lot of work. Maybe we can reconsider removing the Out of Bounds MOD?? :idea: Maybe for some maps you can lower the "Visible Range #" There is usually Web Admins on most of the time, they keep an eye on any out of bounds issues. :? At the same time, I can see how this Mod encourages people to get out and fight! Yet it might take the fun away for people that are starting out new. :)) Whats your take?

Re:NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

this is all good for high level characters but the low levels will have problems. for instance, i couldnt survive on wave 16 on mettalurgy unless i sniped from the roof. but now i can. I think the out of bounds warning should be removed. The deemer camping kill is good. it keeps them from staying in one place too long, but eventually, people will see a way around it, like staying just outside the range of the warning. Plus, this mainly applies to the newbies. if we use this mod, it will most likely discourage them from playing on this server. another thing to consider, maybe just give a warning rather than killing them. then with enough warnings, just ban them. but, also, if you are gonna have the deemer camping kill, you might as well get the Agent Smith mod where he comes to kill you for camping the deemer. That would make it more interesting. the only problem i foresee is certain maps where the safe point is near a deemer, such as Irondeity and Deck17. Maybe see if you can just suspend the countdown for respawn of the deemer if someone is within range. that way you dont have to tell anybody about that and people will eventually stop camping and move on. but include the warning too. maybe make the warning delay for 30 seconds. personally, i dont really care if people camp the deemer. that's time they are wasting while i kill more monsters.

Re:NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

I'd like to first express that I didn't want to write this mutator and have put it off for a year in hopes these problems would cease. This code wasn't particularly game enhancing, nor was it exciting to write. In fact it's about the same as the Player Agreement mutator. I wrote it because I'm exhausted of telling people "Get back inside the map," or "Quit camping the nuke," so I spent about 14 hours yesterday writing this mutator. We have had to delete all sorts of maps that we love to play because people find these out of bounds spots and exploit them. Some of these maps I really enjoyed, and would like to bring back now that this mutator is here; however, if I take this mutator off, not only will we not be able to bring these back, we will have to begin deleting maps like mad. Some of your favorites will be the first to go. In addition, we've always been slow to adopt new maps because we had to spend lots of time testing them to make sure they were not exploitable in these ways. Admins are here to play, not to constantly police the server. This change removes the need for admins to constantly police these rules. WebAdmins can't see the current game, and hence can't see out of bounds players. Previously there has had to be a lot of subjectivity on the part of the admins as to what is fair, and what is not fair. This removes the subjectivity entirely, and makes the rules entirely objective. The server has set logic that will encourage players to play by the rules. After all, if a monster cannot get to where you are to kill you, is it really fair that you can go there and kill the monster? Usually these are areas of the map that the creators had no intention of letting you into and probably had left open due to a mistake. I guess ultimately, I'm really having a hard time understanding the problem here. After you're warned, you have 15 seconds to move along. After a second somewhere else you can even go back. No one complains on maps that say "You've been targeted by an orbital ion satellite. You have 9 seconds to move," no one complains on a map when you fall in the lava and die, no one complains when a particular area hurts when you stand on it. This isn't all that different, is it? I've even received hate mail about this mutator today. If ya'all can come up with some constructive ideas on how we can prevent these types of map exploits, I'm all ears. This is the best I have, short of seriously hampering the game for everyone by removing the translocator, boots of flight, electormagnet, and numerous maps.

Re:NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Deunan wrote:

Yet it might take the fun away for people that are starting out new.

edomingox wrote:

this is all good for high level characters but the low levels will have problems. for instance, i couldnt survive on wave 16 on mettalurgy unless i sniped from the roof. but now i can.

I'd like to address this problem seperately. I'm intending to give players lower than say... level 20 some special starting out abilities to keep them alive longer. I guess what I'm saying with this is, if you're a good unreal player, and even with your skill you can't survive without these areas, something else is unbalanced. I've known that low levels and new players have a hard time surviving, and I intend to do something else about it.

NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Deunan wrote:

In my opinion, I didn't see a problem before w/being out of bounds.

It's because we've combatted it on numerous fronts. We delete maps that are easy to exploit, even when they're fun. We encourage people in good behavior, and for some we sternly warn them. I'll bet 1/5th of our banned list is people who wouldn't obey these rules.

Re:NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

I have had one thought. If you're out of bounds or near a superweapon too long, I could have it find you a start point and teleport you there instead of killing you.

Re:NoCamping rules?

emetakleze — GMT

That would be cool! Quite flustrating to the rule breakers I would assume! :)) Could you do it without a warning? And perhapse, now I don't know if this would be possable, send them to a "penalty box" like area? Maybe above the map, so they can see all the fun without being able to join in untill the next wave?(with a message that does not go away like, "you are here because of your actions, follow the rules" or something to that effect. Not exactly killing, but making it flustrating enough to put the point across.

Re:NoCamping rules?

klok718 — GMT

why not just teleport campers to the waypoint with the most monsters near it? "if you dont want to fight we will put you in the fight" [edit] or do a reverse booster thing there there sheleds then life are slowly drained? [edit] or freez them in place till the end of the wave and change there skin so they look like a little tent! at the start of the next wave they dould respawn like they died in the prevous wave.

Re:NoCamping rules?

Deunan — GMT

Dru wrote:

I have had one thought. If you're out of bounds or near a superweapon too long, I could have it find you a start point and teleport you there instead of killing you.

I think that's a fabulous idea!

Dru wrote:

I spent about 14 hours yesterday writing this mutator.

I think the time was well spent and hope I didn't come across any other way. I agree with it as far as the camping issue is concerned.

Dru wrote:

Deunan wrote: In my opinion, I didn't see a problem before w/being out of bounds. It's because we've combatted it on numerous fronts. We delete maps that are easy to exploit, even when they're fun. We encourage people in good behavior, and for some we sternly warn them. I'll bet 1/5th of our banned list is people who wouldn't obey these rules.

Thank you for clarifying. I don't always know what goes on behind the scenes. This helps me better understand the need for the out of bounds rule.

Klok718 wrote:

why not just teleport campers to the waypoint with the most monsters near it?

I like this idea. It is sooo evil, but in a fun way! :-D

Re:NoCamping rules?

Szlat — GMT

I think this mod is a great idea. Being out of bounds is like cheating, and if you have to cheat to win, what's the point in playing? So thanks for the hard work Dru. At the risk of being even more abused, can you also apply the countdown if a translocator is out of bounds? I am not so worried about translocators near superweapons - that is just an efficient way of periodically checking. But I can imagine people being out of bounds, waiting til the countdown occurs, jumping down and immediately teleporting back. So, if it kept counting while their teleporter was there.... Perhaps a better, but more extreme, enhancement would be to make the out of bounds seconds reset only on the next wave, rather than when they enter normal space? So if someone returns out of bounds, the count continues from where they were. :twisted:

Re:NoCamping rules?

klok718 — GMT

pardon my stupidity but can someone explain "out of bounds" and "off the map" :oops:

Re:NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

the teleporting idea is good. i also like the idea of being able to stay in an out of bounds area if the monster can see and shoot you. i.e. the top of the flag statues on CTF HallofAnubis is considered out of bounds and it kills you there. That spot is open for monsters to shoot you.

Re:NoCamping rules?

PoisonMushroom — GMT

Dang Dru...That must have been a lot of work. But what must be done, must be done. I am all for this, but I feel bad for Dru having to work so hard...

Re:NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

I'm working on both ideas now.

Re:NoCamping rules?

FodderFigure — GMT

I like this new system. Although twice today I was killed when I didn't know I was in the wrong place, I just didn't see the warnings while running around in the courtyard near the deemer. That's why I have my text-to-speech turned on, I get too engrosed in the game to see the text on my screen. Could there also be some sort of audio warning? Also, I see no reason to give newbies any different treatment then anyone else, a quick transport to somewhere else and a messege across the screen will let then know what's going on.

Re:NoCamping rules?

Boingo_Babe — GMT

FodderFigure wrote:

Also, I see no reason to give newbies any different treatment then anyone else, a quick transport to somewhere else and a messege across the screen will let then know what's going on.

I concur with this. How are they going to get any better if they get different treatment? I also like the idea of transporting people to spots where monsters spawn. If you could do it so the players who go back a second time get transported to a spawning area. Hopefully, that won't happen a whole lot, but why do it to first timers who don't know what's happening? Make the first transport a warning. I also like these ideas. I never understood how people could just stay out of the way of things and still get points (unless they had spider mines). If I ever try to hide someplace, I can never get enough decent shots in, then I end up getting bored and hop out of there. And working 14 hours AND getting hate mail has to be tough. I just can't say enough how great of a job all of you do. The server just wouldn't be the same without you. B_B

Re:NoCamping rules?

JaggedMarble — GMT

Personally hoping this will also give those of us who run around on higher waves instead of hiding out of sight a better shot at surviving. Nothing like running around and getting gunned down by 10 warlords just to see 10 people hiding where the monsters can't shoot em. :shock: Excellent work Druid, it's greatly appreciated as always :)

Re:NoCamping rules?

Pyramidion — GMT

yup same here, I think this modification is great... will cut down work of the admins so they can enjoy and it just secures the rules of the server. And definately hatemail is way overboard!!! We're just playing a game to have fun that's all, no need for hostility. But anyways I don't think new people should get exceptions either because they should read the player agreement and it says no camping, so if they read it they'll be fine... you'll soon find out the players that didn't bother. Placing them in monster areas would teach them, but it's better than the punishment of being banned or kicked.... Anyways you're doing a great job dru, don't let others who take this to the extreme get you down! Great mod! :D

Re:NoCamping rules?

bob — GMT

MAS - the no camping rule has side effects - abjasca (or what ever it is) dam, etc, take longer then the 25 seconds for ai to reach you - i was killed around 15 times in MAS Becuase i was driving the tank Remove the no camping mut from MAS? Comments? Also you might want to consider removing it from MONS as well

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Please see this post now: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/898.page

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Deunan — GMT

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

Please see this post now: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/898.page

Thanks Dru :)

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

The_Shrike — GMT

I think there might be some flaws w/the mod. I was experimenting tonight and at first I thought the parameters were height based. But apparently they're more complex than that. What I take issue with is that there are plenty of places to camp which the mod doesn't recognize. On Oceanic, there's an area where people teleport up to and sit and unleash mines&grenades without moving and without getting hit. On Albatross, you can camp in the lower tunnels with a mine layer for practically every wave. Also, on Buliwyf, warlods, gasbags, queens, and titans are all capable of hitting the roofs or towers (been knocked off plenty of times myself) but those areas are now considered off limits. So, it seems a little fuzzy as to the "AI can't get to you in 20 seconds rule. Also, I think the rule renders the sniper rifle and the lightning gun useless. If I've got a +6 Freezing Sniper Rifle (like I did tonight), I at least want to get to use it. If I can't take higher ground, I have to grunt it out on the floor of the map with a negative flak. I'm sure the mod is here to stay and it seems like a good attempt to take care of camping problems, but... I think the teleporting solution is a good idea, as is the reverse booster concept.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Tarl — GMT

I waited a bit before I replied to this thread. I wanted to see everyone elses opinion first. I am all for this, GREAT JOB DRUID. This should make for a more difficult game play for most people. Without those spots it should make that 80 points a real target. As it is now you put a few of the elite players on at once and you win every map anyhow. I dont fully agree with the teleporting of players, I kinda prefer after bieng warned they just die. My reasoning is if they die they lose points, and that adds to the deterrent of doing wrong. On a large map you could camp a spot so you can be teleorted to the monster areas? I can see this bieng exploited, heck I think even I would do it on a large map to save the trip running across the map.

Re:NoCamping rules?

MoDeath — GMT

JaggedMarble wrote:

Personally hoping this will also give those of us who run around on higher waves instead of hiding out of sight a better shot at surviving. Nothing like running around and getting gunned down by 10 warlords just to see 10 people hiding where the monsters can't shoot em. :shock: Generally I like collecting all the kills I can (for exp. points) while the others hide, but on waves 12, 15, & 16, we could definatly use the help. I also like it becuase if one or two people are left, we all are not just watching them hide. I think it may speed up invasion games. Good job Dru :D

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

v0rTeX — GMT

Haha! I've been waiting for something like this. Any chance you'll put up a public download for other admins to use once you get it to a level you're happy with? Also, hate mail comes with being an admin. There is absolutely no one who can run a server and not get 1 single complaint. There is always that one dork (or sometimes many many of them) that has to rant about how the server sucks because you need to change X, Y, or Z about it. Sounds like great work with this mutator though. :D

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

v0rTeX wrote:

Haha! I've been waiting for something like this. Any chance you'll put up a public download for other admins to use once you get it to a level you're happy with? Also, hate mail comes with being an admin. There is absolutely no one who can run a server and not get 1 single complaint. There is always that one dork (or sometimes many many of them) that has to rant about how the server sucks because you need to change X, Y, or Z about it. Sounds like great work with this mutator though. :D

Yeah I'll be putting it up for public download after a few more tweaks and fixes. I'll also submit it to unreal admin and to the ut2004servers list for whitelisting

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

I think pausing the respawn time of the item while in the area is still good to add.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

edomingox wrote:

I think pausing the respawn time of the item while in the area is still good to add.

When I first heard this, I thought what a great idea! I wonder how I can increase the timeout, but after thinking about it for a few minutes I stumbled into some issues with it. The first problem is actually an exploit. If I get a nuke, I can now camp the nuke spot, and no one can get one except me. This can even happen by accident. Just think about Deck 17 The second problem is a new player signs on the server and camps the nuke, not knowing that the respawn is being delayed while they camp it.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

The first problem is actually an exploit. If I get a nuke, I can now camp the nuke spot, and no one can get one except me. This can even happen by accident. Just think about Deck 17.

well if the camping rules are still going, then they will either be transported away or they can suffer damage to the point that they cannot be camping. i would think the respawn time pause is an additional effect on top of what you have already done.

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

The second problem is a new player signs on the server and camps the nuke, not knowing that the respawn is being delayed while they camp it.

if you provide warnings, that may help with those not knowing they are doing it. pretty much like the transport away thing. again, i would think this would be good as an additional side effect to your mod. The reason why i bring this up is because i was playing the other day and i noticed, on StalwartXLClassic, that someone was purposefully camping the nuke. I know this because I stood there watching the deemer cams that are all over that map. he stood on the actual spot, then moved out and then came back couple seconds later until he got the deemer. what the pause does is it keeps people away from trying to exploit the boundaries of the warnings that go in effect. there's another simple fix. Players start with deemers.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Deunan — GMT

Edomingox..aka..Gordon_Freeman wrote:

there's another simple fix. Players start with deemers.

Yikes, that would be a scary thought, Deemers flying everywhere. lol Seriously though, I think that people will camp it even if they did start out with a deemer. They would fire theirs off, run back and wait for another. You will always remain my hero Gordon_Freeman ;-)

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Pyramidion — GMT

yeah I don't think that'd be too good :-SS ... first it'd pretty much make loaded 3 a waste except for the ion, and secondly i think there'd be a lot more suicide nukes happening if that took affect. I did see the same thing at stalwart I was there for that round...

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

cplmac — GMT

The only players who will ever be starting with a deemer are the ones with Loaded Weapons 3 or higher. Sheesh, just dont camp and watch for the onscreen warning in case you are in a bad spot and dont know it. I got blasted tonight, and now I know that is a spot I cant be hanging out at.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Shantara — GMT

I just have a quickie comment as far as the players starting with nukes thing goes- we used to not have a level requirement for Loaded Weapons. After just a few maps with numerous new people suicide nuking everywhere, we decided that was a bad idea. Thus the level requirement. You still get suicide nukers, but at least you know they had to kill a lot of stuff to get there. :)

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

i was being facetious with that last remark.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Deunan — GMT

edomingox wrote:

i was being facetious with that last remark.

And that is why you will always remain my hero!

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Shantara — GMT

Fa-cet-ious? That means that what you said has lots of facets, right? O:)

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

um... ya.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

edomingox wrote:

there's another simple fix. Players start with deemers.

When we first put in loaded weapons, anyone could buy loaded 3 by just spending the points, so you could get a deemer to start with just by dropping the points. It was mass chaos on the rest of the server. A lot of new players dont realize that their nukes can kill team players. It's actually the only reason there's level requirements on level 3 loaded.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

edomingox wrote:

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

The first problem is actually an exploit. If I get a nuke, I can now camp the nuke spot, and no one can get one except me. This can even happen by accident. Just think about Deck 17.
well if the camping rules are still going, then they will either be transported away or they can suffer damage to the point that they cannot be camping. i would think the respawn time pause is an additional effect on top of what you have already done.

Once I finish up some changes to this mod, I'm planning to release it to the community, and also get it whitelisted. If I play with the in game objects like this. I'm not sure epic will agree with the whitelist request if I'm messing with the in-game objects as such.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Actually if they try to exploit the boundry, it's not really all that different than putting a translocator there and keeping track of it. It just enables others who may be watching to get the nuke without them squatting right on top of it.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

edomingox — GMT

ya but there is a difference between intentionally exploiting the boundary and squatting on the nuke, than leaving your teleporter there. I would be more tolerant of someone leaving a teleporter there. it's just i hate to see all that time you put into this mod to see someone trying to work around it.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

There's been a new set of modifications to the no camping rules. Hopefully this will be the last. Some bonuses include audiable alerts, better false positive checking, counting changes, and more vehicle fixes. If you want to download it, you can get it here: https://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/917.page

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

Chameleon — GMT

One thing I've noticed Dru is there are a couple maps that I was on where I got the 'out of bounds' warning when I know I was in the map. I should of written down the map names so that you can check it out yourself, so I apologize for that. I think one of them was that Archipelago map. I was on the beach near that little dock sitting in the water (I wasn't on the dock, though) and I started to get the warning countdown. I moved forward a few steps and it went away. It wasnt' a big deal, but if it does it on that map, I wonder how many other maps it would do it on. I do think the mod is cool, though. p.s. if Duen gets to have a hero, then so do I...Shan is my hero

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Chameleon wrote:

One thing I've noticed Dru is there are a couple maps that I was on where I got the 'out of bounds' warning when I know I was in the map. I should of written down the map names so that you can check it out yourself, so I apologize for that. I think one of them was that Archipelago map. I was on the beach near that little dock sitting in the water (I wasn't on the dock, though) and I started to get the warning countdown. I moved forward a few steps and it went away. It wasnt' a big deal, but if it does it on that map, I wonder how many other maps it would do it on. I do think the mod is cool, though. p.s. if Duen gets to have a hero, then so do I...Shan is my hero

There will be a few odd spots that the AI feels it cant get to. Mostly players need to move on from these too since the AI wont be able to find them there unless they can be seen (In which case the count-down is suspended) If we encounter a map where it's grossly broken that would be good to know.

Re:Old Post -- NoCamping rules?

cplmac — GMT

I want a hero I want a hero!!!! Oh wait I have one BICEPS!!!!!!!