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So you want to be a Loaded Artifact Player?  XML
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TIMMY

Killing Spree
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Joined: 05/30/2006 15:07:54
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really nice post there kyr.........i guess, out of the 3 classes, the LA class is the most tedious class to play as......it sounds like u need to pay attention to everything if u don't wanna die........i like playing as a WM and medic just coz i listen to music every time, i don't usually focus on the game when i'm playing, and i like charging in a huge mob most of the time ........I still have my old Leeroy Jenkins RPG attitude coming out in FPS games lol

TIMMY - LW character
TIMMY_MD - LM character
TIMMY_LA - LA character
ECHO

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 09/03/2006 23:12:48
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I'll agree with what 320 has said about being LA makes you a better LW and vice versa. LA requires more attention to defense and LW requires more attention to offensive.

I thought I'd add a little here since, as of now, there are more artifacts to choose from. At the time this thread was started it was clear that the expendable artifact of choice had to be the triple. The triple is indeed very useful, but it's often wasteful to have it running constantly because of the delay before it can be shut off. I initially tried this strategy but was frustrated because I was often stranded without any adren, what with the startup costs for most artifacts being at least 10. Having a slow weapon speed doesn't help either. Instead I've been using the Lightening Beam. With the beam all adren spent directly results in damage. So many times the beam saved me where the triple would have taken longer. Some monsters are insta-killed by the beam, and with its long firing range, it's possible to kill something before it has a chance to get close enough to damage you. And it's like firing two weapons at once, which helps out with low weapon speed. I've had to change my strategy slightly to incorporate fast moving targets, like the vampire gnats, so the bolt comes in handy too.

I have not tried any of the bombs/blasts because of their high adren requirements, but I eagerly await the return of the damage and invulnerability spheres. Those look uber cool.

As for magical weapons, I usually only MWM my flak and link. If it's something of interest, like vamp, energy, or piercing, I might max it. I try to keep maxing/MWM-ing to a minimum because I only have 150 adren at the moment and I feel that it is better spent on damaging monsters rather than making weapons. Pretty weapons aren't going to do you much good while you're dead, so you may as well get as much XP in the small timeframe you have to do so. This is one of the reason why I have not bought Loaded Artifacts 3 yet, an unbreakable MWM isn't useful at a low level. I can see someone arguing that pretty weapons will allow you to kill more, but for 100/150 adren I could use the beam plenty of times and get more adren back in the process. This is especially critical at a low level when 100/150 adren can sometimes take up to an entire wave to save up.

I do have denial 3, but the main benefit I see, other than saving something valuable like vamp, is not having to scurry around the map to collect weapons. Again, that takes away from time damaging monsters and puts you at risk for being slaughtered.

Speaking of being slaughtered, it's easy to be overwhelmed at times. That's why I always find a safe spot to plant my trans. Preferably near some source of health.

One weapon briefly mentioned here was quickfoot, however the actual quickfoot skill was hardly talked about at all. I added levels to my quickfoot skill early on as a LW and have never regretted it. I plan to do the same with LA. There are too many benefits to not do it. Queens/titans/warlords are easier to evade, health items can be consumed faster, and the faster you move the more opportunities you have to kill. I have already seen an increase in score since I purchased quickfoot 1.

As of level 40 I have the following:
Loaded Artifacts 2
Energy Leech 2
Resupply 1
Adrenal Drip 2
Denial 3
Quickfoot 1

Weapon Speed 14
Health Bonus 54
Max Adrenaline 150
Attack Bonus 16
Damage Reduction 4
AmmoMax 50

One thing is for sure the low-level assist has spoiled me. I know that once I hit 41 I'll have to back off a bit and stay away from mobs. Regeneration and ghost were nice to have, so I will max out my health bonus ASAP, then damage reduction, ghost 1, ghost 2, smart healing 1 (possibly sooner if it seems necessary), ghost 3. Then more smart healing, max attack bonus, weapon speed, quickfoot, and core adren skills (leech, drip, resupply, surge). Additionally I'll more adren points where I see fit. I'm not sure yet if I regret not getting adrenal surge sooner. I suppose it would justify running the Lightening Rod frequently, but if I were to bump up my attack bonus that would mean I would loose out on heath bonus. I'll wait and see.

You can never have too much precision in your soup.

"I don't think it's fair for me to be on the jury because I'm a hologram..." - Liz Lemon

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ECHO

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 09/03/2006 23:12:48
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I turned 41 today (that's level, not age ). Oy. It's been tough without the assists, but I've been able to manage. But let's think positive things. For instance, I've developed a new appreciation for protection weapons. I've found the globe to be most helpful on titan waves. Don't use it much otherwise. And a safe trans spot saves me about every 3 seconds. Bottom line? Keep your monsters close... and your medics closer.

You can never have too much precision in your soup.

"I don't think it's fair for me to be on the jury because I'm a hologram..." - Liz Lemon

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kyraeu

Rampage
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Joined: 08/20/2005 18:13:53
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This is my very pronounced opinion on LA'ing here, so just take that as a disclaimer.

I would STRONGLY urge you to get your attack bonus up to 50 and then buy surge 1 and 2 (which cost 10 points altogether). You get double adrenaline for killing things. This makes titan waves adrenaline-fests, and essentially makes every monster worth twice as much adren as usual. You can use, in theory, everything twice as quickly. You can booster much easier. Triple, beam, globe, you name it. Surge opens up a completely different world for LAs, and I'm sure that most of my fellow LAs will agree that it's very very useful. (They might not agree you should buy it now. I bought it very early on and was NOT sorry at all.)

I would also strongly (yet not as strongly, I suppose) urge you to max weapon speed out soon. With your low health bonus, you might want to get HP bonus up to 100 or something before maxing out weapon speed, but it's another world of difference. Especially on titan waves. I'm telling you, if you maxed out weapon speed and got surge 2, you could triple through titan waves and get insane experience. Maybe even use the berserk combo, too. (Haven't tried that one out as an LA yet.) More XP equals more leveling, equals more points, quicker.

In my opinion, going for health will help, but not so much as going for those two core skills. If you think it's just too suicidal to drop everything and go for them, you'd probably know better than me since my LA started out when things were a ton easier. If you reject going for them straight-away, then I'd suggest that you stop with health sometime before maxing it and get both. Maybe when your HB is 100, maybe 150, maybe something that isn't so round. Or maybe drop 5 points into HB every level, and the other 2 into WS or DB.

I'm around level 80, and I maxed out my HB and DR for the past, I don't know, 20, 30 levels. So I suppose I started thinking about them later than you did. I maxed out my WS and DB and had surge before I even started thinking about health. (Then again, it was a lot easier back then. We didn't get the lowlevel assist stuff, but we didn't need it so much.) Right now, I'm saving for ghost. Do I need it? I suppose it's the logical next step. Having leech, drip, and surge 2 (and artifacts 3), I thought I might want to work on them, but eventually the higher difficulty made me choose ghost. But with max HP and DR, I find I don't die all that often (no more than 3 times a map, usually. denial 3 is a lifesaver when I do die), although I do have to globe a bit. Smart healing seems useful, but I don't think that getting just slightly more health justifies spending 15 or 20 points (however much it is for the first level).

I'm intrigued by your choice of quickfoot. I've almost bought it (and maybe powerjump) in the past, but decided I needed the core adren skills, and then health, instead. I like the QF weapons, but how useful are levels 1 and maybe 2, really? I might think of picking them up once I max ghost, and put off the adren skills a little bit (more).

Speed switcher, I find, can be a lifesaver. I have level 1, and it's pretty useful. I'm a weapon maker type of person most of the time, and once I have a good flak, link, and mini I usually beam. But whenever I make a freezing or null, it's useful to hold the monster (say, a warlord or skaarj) in place, and then switch to an energy or piercing. I occasionally go for a vorpal shock, but usually end up giving up or not even trying. (Usually I decide to either beam stuff or go for the vorpal. I usually try for the vorpal, get combo master, then give up and beam stuff.)

Your aversion to the triple is understandable. It's fairly useless except against the big guys (titans, warlords, queens), and except against titans, I usually find the globe a better choice. The beam is, without a doubt, the new triple. I still triple on the titan waves, and it just works for me better than the beam. Maybe if I got awareness (instead of using the poor man's awareness: AKA, the colors on the radar) I'd like the beam better.

Enough of my long-windedness. I look forward to hearing your personal opinions in the future, ECHO, especially as you advance through the levels. Nice to see that people are actually trying out the LA class... since it seems it's rarely really ever played 'round here.

My Players: Junkie: Kyraeu 85 -- Medic: Excuses 68 -- Weapon: Fyruse 40
Saving for: Ghost 1, 2, 3, then adren skills -- Ghost 3 -- max DB, then some HB
Fro13

Dominating
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Joined: 04/04/2005 17:36:13
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Location: Spokane, WA
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kyraeu wrote:
I would STRONGLY urge you to get your attack bonus up to 50 and then buy surge 1 and 2 (which cost 10 points altogether).

I would also strongly (yet not as strongly, I suppose) urge you to max weapon speed out soon.

In my opinion, going for health will help, but not so much as going for those two core skills.  


I would agree with kyraeu. With DB and Weapon Speed maxed our, you'll be able to dish out a lot more damage which means way more xp. Combine that with Surge and you'll have a huge flow of adrenaline coming too. Since you already have denial, dying just isn't all that bad . I wouldn't worry about health and ghost until you get those things maxed.

I've made a character in each class, and the 2 most important skills are Weapon Speed and DB. Damage=XP

kyraeu wrote:
I'm intrigued by your choice of quickfoot. I've almost bought it (and maybe powerjump) in the past, but decided I needed the core adren skills, and then health, instead. I like the QF weapons, but how useful are levels 1 and maybe 2, really? I might think of picking them up once I max ghost, and put off the adren skills a little bit (more).  


If you're like me and run around a lot, then even lvl 1 and 2 are nice. You probably won't notice a huge difference with lvl 1, but by lvl 3, you'll be loving it. If you find yourself running around most of the map(which I believe you do), then I would definitely get it.

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ECHO

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Joined: 09/03/2006 23:12:48
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I maxed out my weapon speed right off the bat as a LW. The problem I ran into was that I would fire off all my ammo extremely quickly with resupply 1 and I'd be left running around like a chicken with its head cut off. I figured that keeping a reasonable weapon speed as a LA would put off buying more resupply for a while and allow more stat points to be spent elsewhere, but I may reconsider. I was leaning more towards damage bonus since that would boost energy leech considering it's damage based. Plus that would push me closer to buying surge.

I'm continuing to pour more stat points into health bonus. Medics are abundant, so the more I can hoard the better. I may bump smart healing up in the priority queue. Despite the large number of medics, it seems there are quite a few new players who do not have medic awareness and therefore never see me with my feeble 8 HP. So as it stands:

HB --> DB --> surge --> smart healing 1 --> quickfoot 2 --> ghost --> etc.

Weapon speed pending. I may add a little here and there as I progress. I think I will stop with DB at 50 and continue with more at a later time. HB - not sure yet. When enough is enough I suppose. All I know is 318 medic-ed HP is not enough to get around with the new monsters.

Quickfoot helps the most when a monster (most notably queens) spawns next to me and instantly starts wailing away. Sometimes I can double jump away, but that's often not the case. Level 1 is a noticeable difference from having nothing at all, though not nearly as much as any level ? 2. I guess I find quickfoot worth while because I try to kill more monsters than make weapons.

My LW character has speed switcher, so I definitely see the advantage of having it. Mainly for escaping tight situations with the trans. It seems like there are twenty different things I need to purchase at once. Yikes.

It's understandable that most people go with the LW or medic classes. It's easy to spend points fairly frivolously without penalty. LA requires careful thought in order to be successful and I think that is what scares most people away. I have noticed a small number of people choosing the LA class lately, but most end up quitting before they reach level 40. It's tough to be patient when I'm used to being a high level LW and constantly being in the enemy's face. But the challenge to adapt to new abilities is what makes the game interesting.

You can never have too much precision in your soup.

"I don't think it's fair for me to be on the jury because I'm a hologram..." - Liz Lemon

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Grizzled_Imposter

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 02/20/2006 15:59:35
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Been playing a LA character for about a week. I have one thing to say, Damage is king! get your adrenal gathering skills up and use your artifacts that directly damage creatures. at level 31 last night 1 pulled a wicked sick and a 1330 score and did not lose playing by myself till wave 16. when I looked at my kills the telling thing was that I had only killed bout half the creatures with weapons, the other half were all killed with rod, beam and bolt.
when you get a killing spree going, use your artifacts to perpetuate it and the adrenalin tends to come faster and that lets you use your artifacts more.

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BotFodder

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 01/13/2006 15:23:41
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There's an opinion that the Beam (and maybe the Bolt) are seriously over-powered. If I didn't like goofing around with trying to get really cool weapons like vorps, I'd probably hit a decent flak or an energy weapon and stop, and just Beam everything else.

I've been pondering the weaknesses in those two artifacts and I'm wondering if maybe their adren usage should be based on a monster's MaxHealth, and not it's current health. The play style right now for me is to pound something down until I feel truly threatened - then Beam it. For most monsters (Titans included) I can make a profit in adren with Surge, if they're mostly damaged.

It's a great kill thieving artifact ...

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Szlat

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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BotFodder wrote:
I've been pondering the weaknesses in those two artifacts and I'm wondering if maybe their adren usage should be based on a monster's MaxHealth, and not it's current health. 
The adrenaline used is dependent upon how much health the monster loses. So if you take 30 health it might use 5 adrenaline, 300 health 50 adrenaline. If you have enough adrenaline, then the health taken will match the monsters current health.
I don't think basing it on the monsters max health will work any better. It would only be worth firing at a full health monster, and in that case you might as well stick the triple on.

BotFodder wrote:
It's a great kill thieving artifact ... 
Possibly. I find I use it the same way you mentioned: Hit them with weapons until they are about to cause trouble, then take them out. I also find it very useful for gasbags etc where I can't get close enough with a flak.
However, as for kill stealing, is it really any worse than a lightning with triple? Hit the triple, fire, and you cause 210 damage for 20 adrenaline. If the lg was a +4, then it would be about 300 damage. Just a vorpal by itself without the triple will do 140 damage. That is quite capable of stealing most kills without adrenaline.
BotFodder

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If you're not up for modifying it's usage adren wise, maybe you should put a timer between actual attempts. I can walk into an area with a bunch of slightly damaged titans and beam beam beam killing them all very quickly. The LG has a cycle time - maybe the beam and bolt need one too.

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Szlat

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Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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With weapon speed set to 50, LG fires about once a second. You perhaps could fire the beam more frequently than that, but you have to aim at a different monster each time. The time delay on weapons stops you firing too rapidly at the same target. You don't get the same problem with the beam, cos either they are dead or you haven't any adrenaline.

I am not necessarily against nerfing the beam or bolt. However, I compared it to the LG/triple to show it isn't really that bad.
ECHO

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Szlat wrote:
With weapon speed set to 50, LG fires about once a second. You perhaps could fire the beam more frequently than that, but you have to aim at a different monster each time. The time delay on weapons stops you firing too rapidly at the same target. You don't get the same problem with the beam, cos either they are dead or you haven't any adrenaline. 


My beam usage normally has a delay of at least 1 or 2 seconds to aim, unless the monsters are lined up, then it might be faster. But like you said, if you use it too fast it will zap your adren. Without adrenal surge it seems to be a pretty even trade. I will see how much that changes in several levels when I buy surge.

If it is 'kill thieving' we are worried about, it's easy to kill much more with a rage lighting or flak. Plus, I would much rather have someone quickly take out a titan or warlord attacking me than hold back and give it the opportunity to kill.

You can never have too much precision in your soup.

"I don't think it's fair for me to be on the jury because I'm a hologram..." - Liz Lemon

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kyraeu

Rampage
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Joined: 08/20/2005 18:13:53
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Honestly, aiming the beam is almost unnecessary. I usually just keep pressing USE ARTIFACT USE ARTIFACT USE ARTIFACT really rapidly and try to get my crosshair on the bad guy. Eventually they go down. If it's something that's about skaarj strength, I usually haven't lost any more than 20 adren, if not gained some, even if it's at full health.

I guess I use it like the bolt, but I actually know what I'm going to hit. And it's a lot cheaper.

My Players: Junkie: Kyraeu 85 -- Medic: Excuses 68 -- Weapon: Fyruse 40
Saving for: Ghost 1, 2, 3, then adren skills -- Ghost 3 -- max DB, then some HB
Grizzled_Imposter

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I don't usually use the beam and bolt so much, I use the Rod a lot, I do not have surge yet.

I have not been enchanting weapons much either because I have not gotten my damage bonus up. I have been concentrating on my adrenaline because every point is more "damage" that I can store to directly deal to multiple monsters at once.

I play at night when there are not many people on if any, so its important to the play style required to be able to kill lots of monsters in a short period of time, of course they don't have much health because I am only level 34.

Twice now I have made it to wave 16 with just the bots, the experience is a lot higher than I received when I was playing my medic or my Loaded weapons character through these levels and that was during the experience boom.


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XXBucketHeadXX

Killing Spree
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Joined: 04/09/2007 15:54:33
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I am a decent low lvl LA player my main char is my LA because it is my favorite class of them all. I like to think of the waves like this


[b]Wave 1-4


I try to make good decent weps but I only have LA 2 so sometimes my MWM will break. But if you have LA 3 then you should make weps all throght these waves

Wave 5

I like to save adren till it is full on this wave because next wave is the titan wave. But if i get max adren at the start of this wave i would most like use the beam aganist a few monster to lower adren then build it up again.

Wave 6

I love this wave I usually would have already made a decent flak so i just use the triple and go to town with the titans I thnk it is a simply wave

Wave 7-11

If i died on wave 6 then i seem to die almost every wave till the end of the game. But during the waves i use the beam against small monsters(Krall,Skarrj,and Brutes). But if there is a room with loads of small monsters and I have lots of adren I will switch to bolt and just hit my use artifact key till im out of adren.

Wave 12,13

I usually dont survive these wave. But I just try to save adren for the titan wave.

Wave 14

I do the same thing for Wave 6

Wave 15 16

I am the first person dead on these waves so most of the time I just leave my computer for awhile till thw map is over so get info from somebody else for this wave



BucketHead Wm LvL 46
Bootsy Collins_Engineer Lvl 5
BucketHead_ADR Lvl 68
Aquabot_ Medic LVL 8




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