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Monster Master, similar to Loaded Artifacts or Loaded Weapons  XML
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Risc



Joined: 08/23/2005 18:10:14
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dirty_deeds wrote:
pet be a pet be a pet looks like a pet, walks like a pet , it b a pet. lag city to me  


Its already lag city, whenever I'm on half the players (usually higher levels) have warlords, not b/c they're useful but b/c they have nothing better to spend adrenaline on; the other day, someone had *4* warlords. If we completely restricted pets to a class that doesn't allow loaded weapons/artifacts, not many players would go for it. And bots would be less lag than Warlords (I'd think..). So if anything, if would *reduce* the amount of total lag. Not to mention bots wouldn't show up on the radar as enemies.
cplmac

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Good points there Risc, also bots are less likely to stand in an elevator and block you out, or fly off the map and just hang out. I think you are onto something here, but I suspect this is a massive coding job, and I'm not sure that Dru has anyone helping him code all this stuff. The bots showing up as players on the radar is a major plus. If this is how you think at 3am you should just sleep during the day and operate at night.

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
Szlat

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Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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OK, so Monster Masters should be the only people who have pets. Either only one each, or on a levelling system.

Risc had some good ideas about a "Pet Health" skill and a "Pet Combat" skill to make the pets more powerful. There are also suggestions about "Pet Vampire", so the player can get health back.

And you could have a levelling system, where the pet increases it's level, sharing points between damage reduction and attack bonus.

And there are lots of other useful ideas, which would be nice to have.

However, none of these would get me to choose pets over loaded weapons or artifacts. It still needs a big punch - something that will dramatically increase the players chance of surviving. That might tempt a few people?

Most people at the moment with pets tend to just ignore the pets - it would be useful if we could add something that made the player want to keep the pet alive.

How about a damage transfer system? If a player with a pet takes damage, then that damage is transfered to the pet. Could level it 25%, 50%, 75% then 100%. So a player ends up invulnerable while his pet is alive. Then just need to tweak the time between pet respawns to balance the ability.

acydreign

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Joined: 01/08/2005 14:09:13
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I guess this is the right forum to post this..
we'll see...

because of the over-abundance of pets on the games and all...
what if one could buy something like "LoadedPet". Then the person would have to spend pts to boost the pet's stats (just like they boost their characters).

maybe this would help make it a higher ability or something.

or perhaps just make monster tongue have a pre-requisit of being level 75 or 100 or something.

KZXten



Joined: 05/01/2005 20:31:39
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WOW, alot of pretty good suggestions! My suggestion is keeping somewhat with RPG tradition. A MM would start in training with a low level monster that they could build up to higher level monsters such as a titan or queen if they so wanted. Adenaline would be the factor in what the MM could create, adenaline is available to other players and they have to build it up the MM should start with the minimal that they could use on their first pet. After a certain level of play the MM would be able to upgrade so that the next level pet would be at their disposal. I would create a system of points where they could add to their stats and/or the monsters stats. In this system it would be like the loaded system but more levels for x amount of monsters that they build up to. For example you'd have to be max say level 10 in MM skill to get a titan or queen. A good suggestion (spike) that I'm twisting a little was for using shade for the player while the pet is alive, my little twist is to use ghost in which you can add to (since it's part of the code anyway) and while you are in ghost mode you can still pick up items for your pet...such as health.

Of course a different way of looking at this is that you take the same scenerio and while you are fighting your pet can pick up items for you, providing you don't use the ghost method. I'd stay with adding to your stats and the pets stats, kind of like a magic user adding to his magic mana sort of speak.

In regard to how many monsters to have an earlier suggestion was good, and that was to leave it configurable by the admin and of course if that's the case point configurable also. A low level/new player shouldn't be able to start our with four monsters, hey they have to train to control the monster(s) which again can be configured by a point system. Who should know more about what the server can handle than the admin, why not leave it up to them to consider. After time and player complaints they should be able to figure out how many monsters to configure.

Since I'm using the energy master path and using team damage I usually only use the monster summon on lower waves. Being that the energy master does not have vamp or regen the monster dies fairly quick any way because there is no way of regenerating health, you might be able to get a vamp weapon but it does no good for the monster. With that also being said the energy master can only have one monster while I've witnessed weapon masters having at least two, so I would say that the energy master should be left with creating a monster but the MM being able to create as many as the admin sees fit. Along with the MM being able to create the monsters the monster(s) for them should also be able to regenerate health through pickups bare minimal.

Adding to the thread that started regarding druid skills, if this is a consideration, all weapons available to such a class should be only healing or poison...to heal or not to heal that's the question?!?! Oh well lol. Ok come on now along with RPG there is alignment right?!?! And of course there is another mod out there called nali litter, maybe there could be a little partnered coding whereas the nali could be the druid's disciples eh? Just food for thought.

KZXten

Come on in the waters fine ut2004://69.175.88.59:7777/ KZXten's Frag Fest
Chyster

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Joined: 02/08/2005 20:26:37
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I know that there are many here that don't care for pets. Some believe that the added strain on the server contributes to poorer performance from lag, while others think that they get in the way.

Though I agree with everyone and every response documented thus far with regard to getting rid of pets, I don't think pets should be thrown out.

Instead, I think that it would be useful to help Dru get this class started for several reasons.

1) This is going to be a tough class to play.
2) Not everyone will be willing to give up what they have to play it.
3) Because of this, there will be fewer people who have pets.
4) This will ultimately reduce the number of pets, lag, etc, etc.
5) These mods were well thought out and a lot of hard work was put in by coders and I wouldn't want to toss all that hard work into the garbage.
6) This class gives us the oportunity to create a tool to manage the problem.
7) Also, some people like to play pets and if we toss them altogether, we could lose some nice people.

Some of you may have touched base on some of these ideas, or I may have outright stolen them from you. If so, I apologize as I havn't read all the threads in this topic. Anyway, here are some ideas for the class.

Only the Monster Master is allowed to have access to pets. (duh)

The initial attrubutes Dru mentioned (in the very first post) apply.

Loaded Weapons up to the point that this class doesn't get ONS or Super weapons. Though the supers would be good because we have the increased chance that the master would slay his own pets. Somehow this one seems a bit much, but it could help equalize the class if the healing idea is not used. (see below)

An unbreakable summoning charm (advanced version) that is limited to one pet.

Monster Tounge is limited to one pet (its already this way but was worth mentioning).

The Monster Master can have more than two pets only if they can find a lesser charm that breaks after one use. This would put severe limitations on the charm and there really were not many of these available when you think about it. Also, If we could recode the percent base radom multiplier for this charms appearance, there would be fewer of them still. I realize this idea should go straight to the toilet because it would mean reintroducing the "lame" pets. But it could prove useful if it could be fixed in a manner that only summons Nali and up. Also, though everyone can pick up this charm, only the MM can use it. (this is a class interactive bonus, see healing idea below)

Monster Master is equiped with a really good healing weapon that only works on others (ie. minigun or link that has higher bonus multiplier FOR THIS CLASS ONLY). Don't allow them to heal themselves but give them a tool to coax the lesser charm from the claws of someone else, a way to keep their monsters alive (no XP for this), and a method to get some good experience from healing others.

These ideas may be really stupid, or totally impossible in some cases. But, they are ideas none-the-less. Some of those in the anti-monster corner may not agree but, I am trying to come from an angle that helps develop the class, helps integrate the class into the others, and help reduce the number of pets in the game.

This would give us an in your face fighter (Loaded Weapons), a mage type weapons smith (Loaded Artifacts) and a necromancing cleric (Monster Master). Though a necromancing cleric may be an oxymoron, there are times when even those with Vampirism need to be touched by something like a +7 Healing Minigun.

Whadaya think? Oh, and sorry, I didn't mean to write a book.

If at first you don't friccasee, fry, fry a hen.
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Szlat

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Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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Chyster wrote:
Whadaya think?  

Well said. I think you have made a lot of good points. I would prefer we helped Dru improve pets rather than ditch them. I don't think they work too well now, so how can they be improved?

If the Monster Master has LW2, then he also has to have Vampire/Regen, so it is still quite close to the Weapons Master, but with 2 pets instead of LW5.

I think I would prefer to make the class a bit more distinct, and so probably not allow Vampire or LW. However, the class then needs something a lot beefier than just 2 pets - as pets are now.

If someone can come up with the killer skill, then I think it could work. Something good enough to tempt DD and CPL.
Maximus

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Joined: 02/26/2005 00:15:05
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I'd like it if pets would have different colors on radar then regular monsters. Obscenery did it for his Monster Manager mod, could it be done for DruidsRPG as well?
Szlat

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I don't know if this is possible, but it may help if pets could be 'targeted'. So the Monster Master has an additional weapon with which he can 'tag' a monster. The pet then attacks that monster.
This means the pet and MM are working as a team. The skill of the MM determines how effective the pet is. If the MM doesn't work with the pet, it won't be any use.
Probably give the pet lots of hit points and a strong attack - such that it makes it worth the MM using the pet rather than a flak+5.

If necessary, could perhaps just check whenever a MM attacks a monster, and target that monster with the pets.

I might quite enjoy having two warlords firing at whatever I aim at.

Can it be done?
v0rTeX

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Maximus wrote:
I'd like it if pets would have different colors on radar then regular monsters. Obscenery did it for his Monster Manager mod, could it be done for DruidsRPG as well? 


Obscenery was able to do it because he recoded alot of things in the invasion code and made his own gametype. I'm fairly certain a mutator of any kind cannot accomplish the same task.

We can only hope that when Invasion makes its appearance in UT2007, whether its packaged with the game or made by a community mod maker, that it has vast improvements.
cplmac

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here here vortex

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
disastrous



Joined: 08/19/2005 09:36:58
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- Give the Monster Master ONE monster

- The level of the monster would go up with the skill level achieved and at very high skill levels would exceed wave 16 monsters (perhaps be a level that is a fraction of the summoner or something like that). At very high levels, the monster should be powerful enough to account for a third of the experience/kill total.

- The monster is more aggresive than the current monsters

- All players, whether MMs or not, can have only one summoned monster at any time (if they get a charm).


Drago'Nish

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Joined: 08/10/2005 18:38:46
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you can already only have one monster at the time,
the problem, about how a player can gain a two or more monsters,
that is mostly a bug, and un-intended.

Zenas: Weapons Master - lvl 26
Maximus

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Joined: 02/26/2005 00:15:05
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v0rTeX wrote:

Maximus wrote:
I'd like it if pets would have different colors on radar then regular monsters. Obscenery did it for his Monster Manager mod, could it be done for DruidsRPG as well? 


Obscenery was able to do it because he recoded alot of things in the invasion code and made his own gametype. I'm fairly certain a mutator of any kind cannot accomplish the same task. 


I was afraid of that.
Still, didnt hurt to ask, since biggest gripe that people have against pets is that they cant tell them apart from regular monsters on radar (at least judging from forum posts here).

We can only hope that when Invasion makes its appearance in UT2007, whether its packaged with the game or made by a community mod maker, that it has vast improvements. 


I second that. Maybe it really will since Atari has stated that they were surprised to how well comunity responded to invasion game type. They really didn't expect it to be this popular.
Drago'Nish

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Joined: 08/10/2005 18:38:46
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it is proberly so popular, because ut is one of the not so many games having it ?
also it is something unusual,
myself, i love invasion, and like i said a long time ago [not on this forum]
if ut2007 wil not include invasion, and it wil not be made by anybody in the comunity,
i am going to re-consider buying it.
if it wil contain invasion, no doubt, it'll be part of my colection of games.

Zenas: Weapons Master - lvl 26
 
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