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FodderFigure

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 03/31/2005 17:04:57
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Location: Northern Indiana
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Chyster wrote:
Not to be grinding on ya, but even with the current reductions for these weapons the scale still tips in favor of the Loaded Weapons class. 


The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, I'm jealous of all the vorpols you guys make.

the +7 vamp flack would keep ONLY a junkie alive, the +4 piercing would help kill shielded queens, etc. Making each weapon unique is a capital idea. 


I'm told since I'm at level 10 vamp those weapons don't help me at all, even so, I don't like the idea that a weapon does one thing for a artifact user and another for a weapon user.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a level three denial for the loaded weapon user. Loaded artifact users get to keep all their artifacts so we should be able to keep all our weapons. If we suicide we loose all weapons.






You mean I really am important? How I feel when I'm drunk is correct?



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http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1093.page

My Loaded Weapon character is known as [DC]FodderFigure
My medic character is known as [DC]FodderFigure_MD
My Artifact character is known as [DC]FodderFigure_LA
Wildfire


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Joined: 02/21/2005 22:33:38
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Location: Muncie, IN
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Something we were talking about last night regarding the new Rage weapons. It just seems that loosing as much life as you do isn't worth the increased damage. Something we came up with included having the weapon drain your life down to about 100 or 150, then stop. This would allow newer players to use it much more effectively, because their life drain would be almost nill for a time. Also, it makes higher levels wonder if running around with lower life would be worth the damage increase. Just a thought.


Hmmm... this probably should have gone under suggestions.
TheDruidXpawX

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Wildfire wrote:
Something we were talking about last night regarding the new Rage weapons. It just seems that loosing as much life as you do isn't worth the increased damage. Something we came up with included having the weapon drain your life down to about 100 or 150, then stop. This would allow newer players to use it much more effectively, because their life drain would be almost nill for a time. Also, it makes higher levels wonder if running around with lower life would be worth the damage increase. Just a thought.


Hmmm... this probably should have gone under suggestions. 


I'll think about this one... it's none to shabby of an idea.

Skin download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1189.page

The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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v0rTeX wrote:
Are you using the same overlay effect I used? I always thought the firey look to it was neat for the effect. 


Hey, what shader did you use for it? The one I'm using I might want to use for something else

Skin download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1189.page

The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
emetakleze

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Joined: 01/02/2005 18:15:15
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Wildfire wrote:
Something we came up with included having the weapon drain your life down to about 100 or 150, then stop. This would allow newer players to use it much more effectively, because their life drain would be almost nill for a time. Also, it makes higher levels wonder if running around with lower life would be worth the damage increase. Just a thought.


Hmmm... this probably should have gone under suggestions. 

Would it be possable to coralate health directly with ammo? I mean, when like you said, your health hits 100, instead of just the damage stopping the weapon acts like it is out of ammo? (it would use ammo up as well anyway, so if you hit the bottom of your rounds it would stop working like normal.)

****"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."**** -Batty

****On a hot summer night would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?****

***Though I cannot corrupt that which is by nature already corrupt, I can and do change the nature of the corruption***

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Szlat

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emetakleze wrote:
Would it be possable to coralate health directly with ammo? I mean, when like you said, your health hits 100, instead of just the damage stopping the weapon acts like it is out of ammo? (it would use ammo up as well anyway, so if you hit the bottom of your rounds it would stop working like normal.)  

I like the idea of the weapon not doing anything, rather than still allowing the high attack with no self damage - it seems fairer. However, if the weapon stopped working at 100 health, then it wouldn't be much use for low level players without vampire who often live down at that level.

Rather than a straight cutoff "works above 100, doesn't work below 100", how about a pro-rata thing, so at above 100 health it works at full power (e.g. +6). At only 60 health it works like a +3 rage, so it doesn't do as much damage but doesn't hurt you too much either. Below say 30 health, it functions like a non-rage weapon?

Having said all that, I think I am still in favour of the way it is now (though I haven't used one yet). For a low level player against titans, it doesn't matter if you have 1 health or 101 health - the rock will either miss or it will wipe you out. A rage weapon could work well then.
Spacey

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Joined: 01/07/2005 21:28:14
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I have to agree with Chyster, the LW class has the advantage, and IMO it is big time. Putting on my Bill Nye discuise (sp)....Consider the following... With LW, I can start out with **all** weapons (even ones which are not on the map), and they are all non-cursed. Minimum cost is 255pts (See the table below). Now with LA, which costs me nearly as much (245pts), I have to go around picking up all the weapons I can find, and hope I do not get any cursed/negative weapons to start with. Then I have to wait until I can build up my adren to **TRY** to make a good weapon. All the while, I have lower starting health and if I run afoul of a bug, I will not heal unless I use that adren which I need to try to make good weapons.

For a more telling view, take a look at the minimum values and their costs in parens:

.................................... LW .................................... LA
Damage Bonus......... 50 (50) ............................. 50 (50)
Health Bonus............. 30 (15) ............................. 0
Max Adren ................. 0 ........................................ 150 (150)
Max Ammo ................ 50 (50) ............................. 0

Regeneration 1 ........ (15) ................................... 0
Resupply 1 ................ (15) ................................... 0
Vampirism 1 .............. (10) ................................... 0
LW 5 ........................... (100) ................................. 0

Adren Drip ................. 0 ........................................ (5)
Adren Surge .............. 0 ........................................ (5)
Energy Leach ............ 0 ........................................ (5)
LA 3 ............................. 0 ........................................ (30)
========================================
Totals .......................... (255) ................................. (245)

Now, if you figure in that I really still do need the health and resupply that LW has, as well as denial, the LA total goes up by 15 for health, 50+15 for resupply, and (15+20+10) for denial, just to respawn with the same base health, have my ammo refill, and have what weapons I can get. Total cost? 370 POINTS!! And I still need to spend adren to heal.

Speaking of making good weapons...while it may seem like it is easy to make that weapon, it is not. It costs us 100 adren to just make it, and it has the same probability of being a good weapon as each and every one of the weapons the LW player spawned with. If you figure all the weapons, that can be 1000 adren or more. And to max them, I still would likely have to spend 150 adren to do so per weapons. And as for those vampiric and vorpal weapons...well, while we may have a run of several in a given game or evening, they still are not all that common. I kept track for several nights, and figured out I had spent perhaps 10K or more on average per vorpal or vampiric weapon. Yep, only about 1 in 100 was one of the magic "V" weapons. Indeed, just last night, I made the same exact, protection +1 lightning gun 8 times in a row!!!

Also, one last thing about LW vs. LA. My scores are running about 60% of what they were with LA as they were with LW.

And fodder, if you are jealous...why don't you come over to the "dark side". I have already shown you that the base cost is less (indeed, I got several extras from the vamp and regen I used to have when I switched), but I think you will soon learn that the "dark" is really just the color of the fabric the next-of-kin keep wearing as we die.

FodderFigure wrote:

Chyster wrote:
Not to be grinding on ya, but even with the current reductions for these weapons the scale still tips in favor of the Loaded Weapons class. 


The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, I'm jealous of all the vorpols you guys make.

the +7 vamp flack would keep ONLY a junkie alive, the +4 piercing would help kill shielded queens, etc. Making each weapon unique is a capital idea. 


I'm told since I'm at level 10 vamp those weapons don't help me at all, even so, I don't like the idea that a weapon does one thing for a artifact user and another for a weapon user.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a level three denial for the loaded weapon user. Loaded artifact users get to keep all their artifacts so we should be able to keep all our weapons. If we suicide we loose all weapons. 

*BEL*_e (spacey), BEL Clan General -- You Frag em, I'll Slag em!
LA -- *BEL*_e (level 283 - Extreme AM), LW -- *BEL*_o (level 26) MM - ?? ( *BEL*_Rolaids ?? *BEL*DrWho??, Engineer... *BEL*BS_E_E [BSEE '89, Ohio U] (level 22)

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Spacey

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Dru, it seems to me that the RNG is even worse about making good weapons, and it may just be something about 3363. I had one period last night where all I could get on a LG was protection +1 (8 times in a row), and I have had similar runs where the entire game I tried to make energy or vamp weapons on my RL and flak and was only getting things like Prot+1, Force+1, Sturdy+1. Indeed, I think in that game, out of 20 makes, I only got one which was a +2, and it was a lucky. I find myself actually doing more wishing for a draining weapon when I pick it up.

While I don't expect Dru to do anything about the RNG itself (shoot, folks do PhD theises on RNGs, which are used in cryptography). but it is something which perhaps we need to watch and perhaps grumble back at Epic and Ryan.

*BEL*_e (spacey), BEL Clan General -- You Frag em, I'll Slag em!
LA -- *BEL*_e (level 283 - Extreme AM), LW -- *BEL*_o (level 26) MM - ?? ( *BEL*_Rolaids ?? *BEL*DrWho??, Engineer... *BEL*BS_E_E [BSEE '89, Ohio U] (level 22)

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320

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Odd, I have entirely the opposite attitude about this. This gives the lower level players a chance to actually do damage to monsters before all the higher levels vaporize them. Also, lower level players don't often get these weapons unless someone gives one to them. 


The longer longevity of monsters definately allows lower level players a better chance to get more exp, I agree.

As for the vamp wep changes, I don't have a strong opinion either way but I can understand why artifacts players would be feeling the squeeze.
TheDruidXpawX

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Spacey wrote:
I had one period last night where all I could get on a LG was protection 


I haven't had the same issue... Dont go to vegas this week

Skin download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1189.page

The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
v0rTeX

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Joined: 12/19/2004 20:59:52
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TheDruidXpawX wrote:

Hey, what shader did you use for it? The one I'm using I might want to use for something else  


ModifierOverlay=Combiner'EpicParticles.Shaders.Combiner3'


It gives the gun the look of being on fire sort of. It doesnt cover the whole gun sometimes depending on which weapon the effect is on. The RL and Flak look the best with this shader applied. The LG and shock dont show it nearly as much.

----------------------------------

And about the discussion of LA vs LW. Keep in mind the settings of the DC server are not typical of most invasion servers out there. When you play LA characters on servers with much higher or no stat caps, they far outscore the LW guys because they can run around with globe and triple damage running alot of the time to rack up massive points. Especially when there are certain waves with higher point value monsters.
TheDruidXpawX

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Ok, new set of changes.

The Rage shader has changed to the firey shader that v0r was using. It now goes from +6 to +10.

It wont reduce your health to less than 90.

There's a new weapon type called reflection... the shiny skin gave me the idea.

The shader that used to be on rage in on this one. Range is +1 to +7 For each + it does 2% more damage. It makes you reflect shots like a metal skaarj does. With each + on the weapon, you reflect shots in a one in modifier+1 chance. So a +1 has a 50% chance to reflect. a +2 has a 66% chance to reflect, a +3 has a 75% chance to reflect, etc... When you reflect a shot, your skin flashes to the metal skin.

We'll see how this goes. This is the 177 build.

Skin download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1189.page

The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
v0rTeX

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nevermind I got it.
emetakleze

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Spacey wrote:
I have to go around picking up all the weapons I can find, and hope I do not get any cursed/negative weapons to start with.  


Don't forget, alot of us LW warriors are more then willing to doll out some sweet weps to people in general, but (now I am speaking for myself, but I have seen several others do the same thing) if I know you are a LA junkie I will make an effort to toss ya a good 'un (inparticular vamp, healing (one that you can self heal), energy, and on occasion a vorpal (I die most of the time when I have one, so I usually give it up during the upper rounds). (And here I must say that there has never been a time that I asked any of the LA players to up my weapon and they said no.)
I think this type of "team work" (not really the term I'm looking for, but it must surfice I guess) is what Dru was shooting for when he made the "Choose your Path" modification.
Just wanted to tell ya "your not alone on the battle field friend", there are tweeks that must be done to balance out these paths, and I think it will be a long process of trial and error, just don't focus on "yours is better then mine" type of thing (or vis-a-versa) , it just adds an ugly edge to the whole process imho.

****"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."**** -Batty

****On a hot summer night would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?****

***Though I cannot corrupt that which is by nature already corrupt, I can and do change the nature of the corruption***

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la_bomba

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I would just like to say that, while confusing, these new modifications are very welcome.

As of late I've always been able to be close to, if not equal to the players at the top of the score list until the wave number's reached double digits. I'm now only level 36 and could compete with players whose level's were in the hundreds. The problem was that when the monster's got stronger the player's with stronger weapons had quite an advantage. We could both shot at a titan the same amount and they'd get 2X the xp, and the kill.

I know they're higher level's so they're going to have stat advantages, but I always got upset that I was beat due to player level and not skill (although I'm sure that was part of it too).

Also, props on the xp for healing, I've been lookin' for that.

I always knew that DC was a great server, but from reading these forums I can tell that you really care for the players, and you actually go out of your way to help the lower level players, unlike many, many others.

Thanks guys, this is great!

Noob^2: Medic..................lvl 28
Noob^3: Weapons Master...lvl 43
 
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