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Chyster

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Dru,

The latest changes to game play have brought up something I dunno if your aware of. The +7 Vamp Link is all but useless. I dunno if it goes for all the vamp weapons yet.

Not complaining, I can adapt, just thought I'd throw this out there.

Chy

If at first you don't friccasee, fry, fry a hen.
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Ghorkvos

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It seems to be all the weapons, using a healing flak on yourself seems to be more effective than a vamp 7

Also I've heard that the triple damage no longer triples damage, if a triple damage doesn't triple damage it is not a triple damage..
(whoever told me this was probably noticing the decreased damage the weapons do, the change is greatly amplified by using the triple)

Chyster, you may be able to adapt to the changes but the lower and mid levels cannot adapt to a sweeping change so easly

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster...
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you.
--Nietzche
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TheDruidXpawX

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Here's a quick summary of the weapon changes.

regular +x weapons ans vorpal weapons:
10% damage per + (this isn't a change, just stating for clarity)

Poison weapons:
more poison time per + (this isn't a change, just stating for clarity)

Energy weapons:
2% adrenaline leech per +. No additional damage per + (this isn't a change, just stating for clarity)

all other + weapons
1% damage per +

Also, vampire weapons were supposed to be doing 1% health leach per +, but for a long time have been doing 5%. Neither of these numbers seem fair to someone with the Vampire ability, so it's now doing 2.5% health leach per + so a +7 is like having level 3.5 vamp.

Healing weapons grant 10% of the health you heal as exp on others. You can only get exp for healing damage that was inflicted by an opponent.

In a soon version, Poison will take away a significant percentage of life per poison hit.

Also piercing (which has made a hiatus) will be back, and it will pierce through any damage reduction someone has. (It probably wont take into account your damage bonus either.) This will make for a very useful weapon to high level players once the low level players die and they have trouble doing damage.

I'm also intending to *lift* an idea from v0rtex and make a rage weapon modifier that has a wide range of + but does a percentage of the damage back to you that you do with it. Since the weapons have changed damage to mostly 1% across the board, it's a brilliant idea on how to make a little more widespread big weapon now.

Dru

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
Ghorkvos

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in RPG FAQ: Druid's RPG Weapons it was written
Vampiric (Max Vampire is +50 )
+3 = 30% more Damage and 15% Vampire (same As level 3 Vampire skill) +4 = 40% more Damage and 20% Vampire (same As level 4 Vampire skill) +5 = 50% more Damage and 25% Vampire (same As level 5 Vampire skill) +6 = 60% more Damage and 30% Vampire (same As level 6 Vampire skill) +7 = 70% more Damage and 35% Vampire (same As level 7 Vampire skill)
 

according to the RPG FAQ Vampiric Weapons have always been doing 5% leech per +, and even energy did 2%, 1% just isnt worth anything.

Also according to the FAQ vamp skill is supposed to be 5% per level, making a +7 weapons exactly equal to 7 levels of the skill.

I dont know your code, but from playing today it seems that your reduced vamp to 1%.

1% extra damage per + is compleatly useless, if you honestly feel that all other weapons need reduced effectiveness either give them +5% so that it is at least effective or 0.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster...
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you.
--Nietzche
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TheDruidXpawX

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Ghorkvos wrote:

according to the RPG FAQ Vampiric Weapons have always been doing 5% leech per +, and even energy did 2%, 1% just isnt worth anything 


Energy does 2%? I didn't know that... If that's true, I'll make em all 2%. I'll look into it before the next build.

Ghorkvos wrote:

Also according to the FAQ vamp skill is supposed to be 5% per level, making a +7 weapons exactly equal to 7 levels of the skill. 


Oops. it's 2.5% then. It's 1/2 a level of vamp now. I'll correct that in my initial posting. (Corrected)

Shantara updated the faq after someone pointed out to us that it was grossly inaccurate. I didn't have time to adjust it to the correct amount at that time. Trust me that with vamp it was a bug, not a feature.

Ghorkvos wrote:

I dont know your code, but from playing today it seems that your reduced vamp to 1%. 1% extra damage per + is compleatly useless 


You're right, 1% isn't much; although I would hesitate to say it's useless. The whole point of the other weapon types is what else they do, not how much damage they do.


This series of changes is trying to promote the play smarter mentality and introduce more balance and more teamwork.

Use a regular +X weapon. They can be handed out, and now they do some of the most damage in the game, as they were intended to do.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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Ghorkvos wrote:
It seems to be all the weapons, using a healing flak on yourself seems to be more effective than a vamp 7 


I had one earlier today, and I can assure you that it was highly useful to me.

Ghorkvos wrote:
Also I've heard that the triple damage no longer triples damage, if a triple damage doesn't triple damage it is not a triple damage.. 


Well someone is spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt, which has now propagated here. I'm 100% positive it's not changed at all, and that it does triple damage.

Ghorkvos wrote:
Chyster, you may be able to adapt to the changes but the lower levels cannot 


Odd, I have entirely the opposite attitude about this. This gives the lower level players a chance to actually do damage to monsters before all the higher levels vaporize them. Also, lower level players don't often get these weapons unless someone gives one to them.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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Energy weapons give you no additional damage per +. They give 2% of the damage as adrenaline per +.

I'm still considering making the * weapons other than vorpal 2% per + though. Thoughts?

Maybe just vamp as everyone is the most crestfallen about that one

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
Ghorkvos

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I can see that you are trying to balance weapons and I've thought for a while that because of the abundance of powerfull weapons that "Adrenaline Junkies" were overbalanced. But keep in mind when nerfing the guns that some are considerably rarer through the built in RPG rarity code and that this is an element to balance, If a particular gun is extreemly rare such as vampiric guns, it is understandable for it to be very powerful, if you are going to take away the benifits of these guns, reduce the rarity.

TheDruidXpawX wrote:
I'm still considering making the * weapons other than vorpal 2% per + though. Thoughts?  

I think the weapons that need reduced damage should be reduced to 5% rather than all the way to 2, perhaps +10% basic/vorpal, +5% *, and +2 other?

Also, although I do not like seeing vampiric weapons reduced at all, instead of reducing the vampiric effect, how about just removeing the damage bonus, so a vamp 7 would still do 35% leech, but only basic damage.

And since your going to remove the damage on the +6 and +7 weapons, increase the max + on the basic weapon from 5 to 7 or 10

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster...
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you.
--Nietzche
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v0rTeX

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TheDruidXpawX wrote:

I'm also intending to *lift* an idea from v0rtex and make a rage weapon modifier that has a wide range of + but does a percentage of the damage back to you that you do with it. Since the weapons have changed damage to mostly 1% across the board, it's a brilliant idea on how to make a little more widespread big weapon now.
 


Heh, never thought I'd do anything that would make it into your addon. I'd offer to send you the code but I know you already have disected that.

Only fitting since I *lifted* some ideas of my own from you and Myst. The next time you release a new version I think I'll repackage more of your code unaltered into my addon so it becomes version independent of yours.



I have also wondered if there were too many + damage effects floating around. Nearly all of the good * weapons that I can think of at the moment have heavily enhanced damage factors. I think it will be good if many of them return to focusing on the effect of the weapon rather than the damage first and effect second. I think it will balance things out more because right now it pays off alot better to be an adren junkie with a start on wave 1. The only thing thats hard is the lowest level region.
Chyster

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Sounds like youv'e already put a great deal of thought into it and were aware.

I do like the idea of making the magical properties of these weapons more prevelant.

Making the poisons do extra damage per "ooh, ugh, eep" would actually give them more value besides poisoning myself. If ya poison something, it should be plausible that it could die from poisoning!?!?

Protection weapons could slowly increase your sheilds to max. Don't really understand how these work, but really haven't found them useful.

I like the piercing idea, if only we could get them to pierce Skaarj and Queen shielding they would go from freakishly useful (with the new approach) to freakishly awesome.

Null entropy's shouldn't change as far as locking them down in one space. That way I could hold one down and somebody else could kill it.

Knockbacks should just knock em back away from you. I would boost that a little. However, if too powerful, you could "pin a titan to a ceiling" or some poor folks across the map can end up with a titan in their ear.

Freezing should do the same as poison in that the critters take cold damage. I think poison and freezing damage should stack with each hit. Ya could drop the duration for this, but it would be cool to freeze a bug to death.

And, Vampirism, if possible could be put back the way it was with an exception that will not allow anyone with vamp ability to either use or get the abilities from stacking the vamp from these weapons. Not to be grinding on ya, but even with the current reductions for these weapons the scale still tips in favor of the Loaded Weapons class.

None of the Magical weapons would have any damage bonuses. What this means is that the Vanilla flavored ordinary flack +5 would do the extra damage, the poison +4 flack would get extra damage from poison, the +7 vamp flack would keep ONLY a junkie alive, the +4 piercing would help kill shielded queens, etc. Making each weapon unique is a capital idea.

I'll wait 'till ya get the wrinkles out and the dust settles.



If at first you don't friccasee, fry, fry a hen.
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TheDruidXpawX

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v0rTeX wrote:

Heh, never thought I'd do anything that would make it into your addon. I'd offer to send you the code but I know you already have disected that.  


I haven't looked at it yet. I'd appreciate an email with the code if you want to contribute it EDIT: NM, I've just coded it up

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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The short list of changes for this evening:

Rage is up.

It's allowed on any non-super weapon.

Range is from +6 to +9. Each + represents a 10% modifier to damage.

Rage deals back to you 10% of the damage you deal with it, but wont reduce you to less than 1 life. Nothing can protect you from this damage.

While a rage weapon is up, Vampire and Leech (Tomorrow) wont do anything.

---

Protection weapons now range from -3 to +5

If you get a -3, -2, or -1, IT's an " of harm" weapon and hits will do additional harm to you instead of protect you.

The positive side does 2% more damage per level and protects you more.
In addition, a positive one of these will protect you from a single lethal blow if you have more than 10 health. You will be reduced to a single health if you receive such a lethal blow.

--

Piercing (not penetrating) weapons are back.

each + does 2% more damage.

Piercing weapons should now cut through any damage reduction the opponent has, but also ignores your damage bonus.

This is intended to work best for the high level players when they're the last alive and the monsters get tough to damage. This will allow you to cut right through their protection.

--

Most of the weapons (including vamp) are doing 2% more damage per + now.


Infinite weapons deal 3% more samage per +

--

Tomorrow I hope to wrap up the poison weapon so it takes a percentage of their life away each time the poison triggers.

--

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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Also in an interesting observation, triple damage affects the damage after it's passed from the weapon, and it always has.

This means that vamp weapons have always drawn the pre triple damage artifact amount. It also means that Rage can be tripled without any additional damge to yourself.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that. I may look into it some more.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
v0rTeX

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TheDruidXpawX wrote:
Rage is up. 

Are you using the same overlay effect I used? I always thought the firey look to it was neat for the effect.

TheDruidXpawX wrote:
Rage deals back to you 10% of the damage you deal with it, but wont reduce you to less than 1 life. Nothing can protect you from this damage. 

Very interesting twist to it. With mine players are just more vulnerable, like your " of harm" guns would leave them. With our invasion setup I'm not sure I could get away with damage reflection from monsters.

TheDruidXpawX wrote:
While a rage weapon is up, Vampire and Leech (Tomorrow) wont do anything. 

I like this part too.

TheDruidXpawX wrote:
Piercing (not penetrating) weapons are back.

each + does 2% more damage.

Piercing weapons should now cut through any damage reduction the opponent has, but also ignores your damage bonus.

This is intended to work best for the high level players when they're the last alive and the monsters get tough to damage. This will allow you to cut right through their protection.
 

This sounds great. I always wished piercing had some usefull effect for invasion.

Nice work.
Ghorkvos

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Is vamp still useing the 2.5% per + Leech you mentioned?

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster...
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you.
--Nietzche
http://skincity.beyondunreal.com/?section=models&action=show_infos&id=487
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