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AntiCamper on the DC server (round 3, Fight!)  XML
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TheDruidXpawX

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Spacey wrote:
Yea, you have to be visible to bugs. But last night, I got totally fed up on a gulliver map (LivingRoom?), where I could not make it through many of the areas of the map (like up behind the electronics stack to get a shield), and I lost track of the number of times I was counted down on while out in the middle hunting for bugs. Worse, I got nailed several times for instances like this. And I was not the only one complaining about it on this map.

I have had discussions with Dru several times via IM and email about this mod, and while I agree "His Server, His Rules", if I said what I truely think about this mod, he would justifyably (sp?) ban me. Folks should know by now I am not one to hide (though sometimes people have a hard time differentiating between hiding & sniping, not to mention defining "camping"), and do not condone hiding. You can look at the section on hiding in http://belclan.ka8zrt.com/About/BEL_Clan_Constitution
for a sample of what I think. But back to this mod, it has done more to ruin my fun than even the imballance which RPG injects into the game or the people hiding ever did. Indeed, there are times I have found it more enjoyable to play on my empty server with bots or to play on servers where there are folks clearly using AimBots than to play where I have to constantly worry about whether the easily reached location will get me declared OOB. That is part of the reason I have not been on the server much. Indeed, if it were not for the friends on the DC server (including Dru and Shan), I would have left and never come back.

On the general topic of "Anti-Camper" mods (a poor name for them in most cases). I have been playing UT since it first went multi-player. Within weeks of its release, a number of us at work (Columbus Bell Labs) started playing, and since that time, I have seen countless attempts to come out with a working anti-camper mod. All have failed in one or more areas. Indeed, why else would Dru have to try to write his own??? But I still would only give his mod currently about a B- (up from a C- and with the class average is C-/D). Part of this is because any time you rely on what bots will/may do, you fall afoul of one of the weakest areas of the game and the maps, because put mildly, the Bot AI and pathing often stink. I could list what needs to be improved here, but for almost every improvement, it would permit someone to exploit it to achieve what Dru clearly does not want: people trying to hide entirely from the bugs and survive without trying. So the best I can say is:

1) Please reduce the distance which is considered to be "camping the superweapon". There are some maps, like one of the Deck-16 type maps, where the ramps or sniper platform fall within this distance. In once case, I could barely see the deemer through a small gap between several obstructions.

2) Please turn off the "camping the superweapon" when someone is flying the deemer or firing the painter. Sometimes it is nice, if not necessary to pick these puppies up and use them almost immediately. I lost several deemers last night to this one trying to reach titans.

3) Either get rid of the large & gulliver maps, or turn off the mod for those maps. Since I happen to love large & gulliver maps, you can guess what my vote would be.

- Spacey 


Moved here. Didn't belong in the "Other Mods forum"

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

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TheDruidXpawX

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Spacey wrote:
1) Please reduce the distance which is considered to be "camping the superweapon". There are some maps, like one of the Deck-16 type maps, where the ramps or sniper platform fall within this distance. In once case, I could barely see the deemer through a small gap between several obstructions.
 

If you will individually report these maps, we can turn off that feature on a map by map basis.

Spacey wrote:
2) Please turn off the "camping the superweapon" when someone is flying the deemer or firing the painter. Sometimes it is nice, if not necessary to pick these puppies up and use them almost immediately. I lost several deemers last night to this one trying to reach titans.
 


It's supposed to be off. It's off in the ini file. I'll have to test it when I have enough time to do so.

Spacey wrote:
3) Either get rid of the large & gulliver maps, or turn off the mod for those maps. Since I happen to love large & gulliver maps, you can guess what my vote would be.
 

Why? What's wrong with these maps.

The LivingRoom map I know about. This map was written for 2k3 and the pathing isn't correct for 2k4 so all sorts of things end up broken.

If the anticamper doesn't work, the monsters wont navigate correctly, Ghost will ghost you off the map, the teleporter artifact will be broke.

This map is likely to be deleted in the imediate future (sorry kids)

Skin download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1189.page

The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
Spacey

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TheDruidXpawX wrote:
Moved here. Didn't belong in the "Other Mods forum" 


Figured it did since I was talking about the AC mod and was actually replying to a message. Oh well...

And the topic is putting it mildly, in case folks have not been able to tell.

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Spacey

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TheDruidXpawX wrote:

Spacey wrote:
1) Please reduce the distance which is considered to be "camping the superweapon". There are some maps, like one of the Deck-16 type maps, where the ramps or sniper platform fall within this distance. In once case, I could barely see the deemer through a small gap between several obstructions.
 

If you will individually report these maps, we can turn off that feature on a map by map basis.

Spacey wrote:
2) Please turn off the "camping the superweapon" when someone is flying the deemer or firing the painter. Sometimes it is nice, if not necessary to pick these puppies up and use them almost immediately. I lost several deemers last night to this one trying to reach titans.
 


It's supposed to be off. It's off in the ini file. I'll have to test it when I have enough time to do so.

Spacey wrote:
3) Either get rid of the large & gulliver maps, or turn off the mod for those maps. Since I happen to love large & gulliver maps, you can guess what my vote would be.
 

Why? What's wrong with these maps.

The LivingRoom map I know about. This map was written for 2k3 and the pathing isn't correct for 2k4 so all sorts of things end up broken.



If the anticamper doesn't work, the monsters wont navigate correctly, Ghost will ghost you off the map, the teleporter artifact will be broke.

This map is likely to be deleted in the imediate future (sorry kids) 


You want the individual maps where I have deemer distance problems reported here in maps, or over in the "other mods" area since this is really the AC mod we are talking about here.

As for the map in question, it was MPC FamilyRoom, and there is a thread all its own dealing with this map. My observation is that pathing on it is working, given the bugs were spawning all over and moving decently, but the problem was the size and obstacles. As I have stated, I love the map, and used to play on servers where these types of maps were 70%+ of the maps played, and I would love to see more. But if the AC mod ruins the fun...

*BEL*_e (spacey), BEL Clan General -- You Frag em, I'll Slag em!
LA -- *BEL*_e (level 283 - Extreme AM), LW -- *BEL*_o (level 26) MM - ?? ( *BEL*_Rolaids ?? *BEL*DrWho??, Engineer... *BEL*BS_E_E [BSEE '89, Ohio U] (level 22)

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TheDruidXpawX

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I would like more information about this.

Who feels that since the anticamper is up that games run more smoothly as a whole?

What I'm talking about is this: I'm not willing to constantly police the people hiding in map glitches, all piling in a little hole where the monsters cant go, etc... I've done it for a year now non-stop, in probably every other game I've been in, and I'm tired of it.

So, do you feel that games are more fair, play and end quicker now..

Or would you all rather go back to the old way where everyone can find a hole where the monsters might have some random chance of dealing damage?

Keep in mind, if we remove the anticamper, I'll have to remove about three dozen or so of your favorite maps immediately, including almost all of the new ones we've put up.

In addition, we wont be able to accept new maps as quickly because Shantara and I have to go through the laborious process of testing the maps for holes... which is to say, at earliest we could begin adding new maps next summer when Shantara is next out of school.

I want you all to know, that I'll take the responses to this post, particularly by contributors very seriously. If enough of you really want it gone, I will listen to your statements and remove it, along with the maps, and the artifacts that let you get outside the map.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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To make the information fair to everyone if you dont want to discuss how you feel, would you at least please give us the following:

1+: I like the AntiCamper, and will support it's continued use.
0+: I have no oppinion on the mod.
1-: I would like the AntiCamper removed as soon as possible.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
Pyramidion

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I for one definatly don't want it gone!!! I've only seen one or two instances where it went a little crazy (family room which is already dealt with). This mod is a fantastic piece of work, it allows Admins to play more, rather than always telling people not to camp super weapons and such (which there was a lot of before). I've seen a major decrease in this since you instated the anti-camper. It doesn't limit sniping either, so if I had a good sniper it doesn't hurt it's use too much. Also this was a lot of hard work to make to improve the server, which I'd hate to see it go to waste. I like the mod so in my opinion I'd keep it!
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cplmac

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good point pyra, it does free up game time for admins to score some xp

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emetakleze

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I must agree. It doesn't affect me personally too much, as i don't snipe often, but when I do you just have to make sure you don't get out of their site. The positive of not having to deal with campers and hiders far out weighs the once in a while count down you get imho.

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Chyster

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Its a good thing I caught Dru's post on what he wanted to see, I was on my soapbox and deleted about eight paragraphs on reasons why it should stay.

1+: I like the AntiCamper, and will support it's continued use.

If you decide to keep the ACmod, I will gladly donate time to aid in the review and/or repair of maps for compatibility.


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FodderFigure

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I like the anti-camper mod. My score has gone up now that I have to go out and fight. I do have to say it might be a little sensitive on some maps where Im getting hit by rocks and it says I need to move.

On the other hand, now that I'm not afraid to come out, and if lower players hide, it will leave a lot more monsters for me to kill and the monsters will be at lower levels. It's a win-win situation for me. Maybe, if a player stands in a three foot area for more than a minute, he should be transported. No one want to wait for a player to finish the map while he's hiding far away from the monsters.

In the end, don't let a few complainers ruin the mod, every map has it quirks, we just have to accept them.

1+






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Mac_Knife

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0+

No opinion for me really as im simply not a camping player, so whether the mod is there or not, it will have minimal effect on me.

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Boingo_Babe

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I say +1.

I don't use the superweapons much, but I do want to say this: it really got on my nerves seeing people with spider mines or grenade launchers in some hole where the monsters couldn't get to them with scores of 500+ while I was out running my butt off with a 100 or less. I'm not bashing the use of spider mines at all, but when they stay there the ENTIRE map and get a score like that, it just puts a damper on things.


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cplmac

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Ahh the old spider mine issue, so glad that one is over.
Now
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Continuum

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+1

There will always be room for improvement but even with the issues all the new maps are great, except no one seems to want to vote for them

also just out of curiosity

wouldn't it be possible (difficult maybe but possible) to create bot paths wherever a player goes so that monsters could always get there (translocator may present a problem but it's not like you can shoot it out of site with one shot). I realize this probably isn't something practical it just popped into my head...




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