SubClass Balance Issues

Flak Monkey wrote:

Without the globe, we might as well find a good hiding spot from wave 12 on.
And there is no guarantee we will find one by then anyways.
The Berserker class I think is balanced. Ya we can deliver a mighty punch, but it doesn't take much to take us down either. So, like any other class, it's left up to the players skill to stay alive.

actually even without a globe (on the right map) wave 12 isn't too bad Shield Gun is Deadly with the speed combo
as a Berserker I actually don't Berserk all that much they do great just getting close a BLAM two shots and anything is dead

Shield is good for a few small closed in maps. I haven't tried it yet. Wide open maps where warlords get to fly around and bombard the area with rockets is murder. Anyway, haven't got to experiment too much with this class to find all what works and what doesn't as I'm trying to study for my next test. But one thing that I do know as it gave me new appreciation for protection weapons.

You should have played DM or LMS with me back in the UT99 days. One of my favourite maps was Lilandri, where I would go back and forth between the various doors of the main hallway, stay there just long enough to lock and fire a trio of rockets, or shoot with the sniper, then go running for some other side passage. While rocket locks are lousy against flies and gasbags, they are great with players. And even the better players, who would hide a trans someplace and try to cheat death that way, could be killed if you could find their trans and kill it first. >

Szlat wrote:

Has anyone with the Extreme Monsters SubClass tried the commands
AttackEnemy
Follow
Stay

You will probably need to put them in your user.ini, like
.....
home=AttackEnemy
.....
Period=Stay
.....

I'd like to see this work on individual pets instead of the whole group, like bot commands.

Aside from ghost 3 for the engineer specialists, I think they need shield regeneration if not the full levels at least some levels.

Also since every time you type in suicide in the console it kills you right? and every time you type it when in a vehicle or turret it automatically ejects you with 1 health but not quite killing you... can this be put as an artifact of some sort for all engineers when making constructions. So instead of it being applied to oneself it is applied to anyone inside the turret. This could be the eject button all engineers are looking for, while not killing the person in the vehicle/turret there is a penalty for not listening and that is decreasing the health to 1... seems fair. I am just saying the decreasing to a health of 1 since it is already coded that way and changing that would mean more coding.

It'd be pretty easy to make an artifact that you could point at a turret and eject the player currently in there (Assuming turrets are actually vehicles - Seems likely?).

LOL, use that in DM play to eject people out of their vehicles before they womp on ya..

Elite wrote:

....... This could be the eject button all engineers are looking for, while not killing the person in the vehicle/turret there is a penalty for not listening and that is decreasing the health to 1... seems fair. I am just saying the decreasing to a health of 1 since it is already coded that way and changing that would mean more coding.

I have implemented an eject command - key bind to the word "Eject" - which will eject everyone from any vehicle or turret you have spawned. They will suffer no damage from the eject - unless the flying through the air from the eject hurts them. This should give you time to reclaim your vehicle.

Szlat wrote:

Elite wrote:

....... This could be the eject button all engineers are looking for, while not killing the person in the vehicle/turret there is a penalty for not listening and that is decreasing the health to 1... seems fair. I am just saying the decreasing to a health of 1 since it is already coded that way and changing that would mean more coding.
I have implemented an eject command - key bind to the word "Eject" - which will eject everyone from any vehicle or turret you have spawned. They will suffer no damage from the eject - unless the flying through the air from the eject hurts them. This should give you time to reclaim your vehicle.

How about flying the "ejectee" into the nearest tree or wall?

i liked more the damage idea.. but szlat is right..

here is the deal...
i really dont think the berserker class i balanced.. at least not in my perspective..

i will try to explain my self. however dont expect too much..

i feel the zerker class IS balanced..but according to what?

never in my entire life i havent seen a score over 4.3k ( sorry wrath) in a normal WM class.. at least not in the ammount that i have seen lately.

i think the goal in sublclasses is to varay the game style.

to make it simple
if a engi class does an average of 2k, he should be able to do an average of 3k.. that is just not right.. maybe balanced in the concept of "yea, i have 1 more sentinel but i dont have turrets or vehicles," but not acording to other classes..

thats just my feel..

you can agree or disagree with me.. but you cant deny, some classes are just not used. (like tank) why? because is balanced but not powerfu enough like some others..)

if subclasses were right.. people could easily pick any class and make the same points ( average.. im not against highscores.. god know how much enjoy them..

think about it szlat

The SubClasses should not be more powerful. If people are scoring on average higher with one subclass than they could with the base class, then the subclass must be nerfed.

I do not see the full picture of what is happening scorewise. I am relying on you guys to tell me what is too weak and what is too powerful.

There are a number of changes waiting to go live, which will change the balance of SubClasses. However, there isn't much changing to Berserkers at the moment. Are they too powerful? Are they regularly scoring too much?

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

here is the deal...
i really dont think the berserker class i balanced.. at least not in my perspective..

i will try to explain my self. however dont expect too much..

i feel the zerker class IS balanced..but according to what?

never in my entire life i havent seen a score over 4.3k ( sorry wrath) in a normal WM class.. at least not in the ammount that i have seen lately.

i think the goal in sublclasses is to varay the game style.

to make it simple
if a engi class does an average of 2k, he should be able to do an average of 3k.. that is just not right.. maybe balanced in the concept of "yea, i have 1 more sentinel but i dont have turrets or vehicles," but not acording to other classes..

thats just my feel..

you can agree or disagree with me.. but you cant deny, some classes are just not used. (like tank) why? because is balanced but not powerfu enough like some others..)

if subclasses were right.. people could easily pick any class and make the same points ( average.. im not against highscores.. god know how much enjoy them..

think about it szlat

Wow my friend!! You just read my mind, I wanted to say the same but couldnt find the words...

Berserker class from my point of view is insanely overpowered, I know they suffer extra damage but, with all that insta kill damage and vampirism they are incredibly Gods againts other classes is like playing extreme monsters with 3 red skaarjs, insane damage.

The wave 6 and 14 is from my point of view a wave where everyone have the chance to get nice exp from Titans but there is a risk they instant kill you with one rock, seems fair for me but when those waves arrives the berserkers just kill all the titans in a few minutes they only have to fire 4 times the flak cannon to kill a titan in a matter of seconds and If they are using berserker skill + lightning rod + double damage = less exp for other low levels and only leftovers.

They are extremely fast, Damage is really high, they can run berserk combo anytime increasing their Damage, using Double damage or Triple with lightining rod or without it makes them more invencible they will feed their adrenaline issues with the kills and kill bonunes they get in the way.

The main Idea of Subclasses is just to vary the play style not to make other classes weaker , just picture this in an entire game there are 20 people on and from those 20 there are 3 berserkers, what kind of exp the other classes would get if those berserkers are online doing insane damage, the newcomers and low levels only have to just camp in a corner and enjoy how they kill super mega fast. That class needs a nerf, is easy to point and shoot and kill without getting hit, and with quickfoot and airmaster wow they are like superman.

Well Thats what I think, every head is a world. Dont take it in a bad way is just what I see.

yes. zerker is balanced if we only see the zerker class. but when we look at the whole picture they are balanced but overpowerfull..
they are like red skaajars.. but faster, with better aim.. and sometimes even more powerful!..

sure flak monkey said it well they not always take a inv globe. however they kill really fast hence more more chances they get globe. and above that if they kill critters faster than the critter shoot.. then they get no damage.. sure nali and shield things might be a bane but from the damage they do.. they can recover

Szlat wrote:

The SubClasses should not be more powerful. If people are scoring on average higher with one subclass than they could with the base class, then the subclass must be nerfed.

I do not see the full picture of what is happening scorewise. I am relying on you guys to tell me what is too weak and what is too powerful.

There are a number of changes waiting to go live, which will change the balance of SubClasses. However, there isn't much changing to Berserkers at the moment. Are they too powerful? Are they regularly scoring too much?

i will post when ever i see one zerker.. however not many players get online when i do..

so far have seen only 1 time the tank ( it was elite, when the subclass came in) 1 time the weapon proficiency class ( road) and 2 times the extreme WM (cant recall names but i think it was mystic and the other road)..

so far other class only wayno do the extreme medic ( judging from his EXP thats weak)

and extreme AM ever1 is in it ( but that class is fine, maybe a little tweak)

extreme Eng.. only elite, buster and astra (however he dont get online as much as i want .. only have seen him 3 times playing sent class) can play with it... so its hard to judge

just look at this..

I wasn't going to post my Berzerker high scores but since Flak opened up this pandora's box ....

the next thing im going to say. is hard.. but i really need to take that off my chest

if that dosent tell you anything.. then with all the respect.. you must be blind