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Rumor: Monster Points bug still lives on in DruidsRPG 200  XML
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BotFodder

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 01/13/2006 15:23:41
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I cannot say I've seen evidence of it myself, and it certainly seems that it's rarer than it used to be, but it would appear that occasionally some folks who don't have monster points can see them.

It also seems like it's limited to individuals these days rather than everyone seeing one Medic's monster points. It may have something to do with new characters, as it seems like it's always the newbies that are asking about them.

Oh and as a medic, my MPs don't always show usage properly. Most of the time they work fine though.

BTW, Dru - though it sounds like I'm nitpicking (and I guess I am to an extent), I want it clear that I think it's *much* better than it used to be (positively playable compared to the 190 era). It's not the nusance that it once was - just an occasional glitch or so it seems.

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TheDruidXpawX

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If anyone can figure out the steps that makes this happen, I'd sure appreciate it.

I believe it's related to a medic spectating a non medic thats summoned a monster, or vice versa....

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kyraeu

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On my LA I'm sure I saw some monster points... although I can't exactly say how I came about seeing them. Might have been one of them spectating me. But... it wasn't all that annoying. The only time it's annoying is when you can't see your own monster points.

My Players: Junkie: Kyraeu 85 -- Medic: Excuses 68 -- Weapon: Fyruse 40
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BotFodder

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Okay just to get the theory straight:

You're saying if a Medic spectates a non-Medic who (through use of a summoning charm) has summoned a monster, the non-Medic may see the MP meter?

Wierd. But testable ... I'll see what I can do this afternoon or tomorrow (sometimes getting volunteers and the charms at the same time can be problematic).

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kyraeu

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I'll help ya if I'm on bot.

My Players: Junkie: Kyraeu 85 -- Medic: Excuses 68 -- Weapon: Fyruse 40
Saving for: Ghost 1, 2, 3, then adren skills -- Ghost 3 -- max DB, then some HB
KohanX

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No, Bot, I think he means that if a Medic, who summoned a monster before he died, spectates a non-Medic, the non-Medic sees the monster points as though he was the spectating Medic.
Continuum

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only if that monster is alive??

imo not a huge bug as long as the monster masters are able to use their correct points, just little annoying or confusing at times.




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TheDruidXpawX

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Perhaps we would all be best served by understanding the domain of the problem, as well the scope of the issues caused within this domain.

First, an overview of how this functions.

Each player who is a medic, or whom has summoned a monster with a monster summon charm, has placed within their inventory a 'MonsterPointsInv' object.

This object is used to track how many monsters you have summoned as well as to track when you die so your monsters may be destroyed.

This inventory cannot be given to another player as it cannot be dropped.

The sole owner of the inventory is the person whom spawned the monsters using whatever tool was available to them.

When this inventory is created, on the client side, a MonsterMasterInteraction is created and added to the list of interactions. This is what displays the HUD. It relies on having a MonsterPointsInv to decide how to display, if it should display the HUD at all.

From my understanding of replication within the unreal engine, you may only replicate data to and from the client if that client is the owner of the objects.

For example, would you be surprised to know that on the client side, that you have no notion of how many points a Monster is worth, and your client cannot actually obtain that information from the server because your client is not the owner of the Monster object.

The hud, if you possess one on your client, periodically looks for a MonsterPointsInv within the scope of ViewportOwner.Actor.Inventory

Something else of worthwhile note, when you die, your MonsterMasterInteraction is supposed to be removed in the destroyed() method on the client.

Now, to taint the discussion with my perceptions of how this is occurring.

I believe that there must be an exception to the rules of replication for Spectators, and people who are in the dead and waiting to respawn state that allows them to obtain replication for objects contained by the player they are spectating. I believe that this must be the case, because when you're spectating them, you can see their health.

Therefore in the later releases, I dropped in a checker-trap in the polling code that looks like this:Code:
if (FoundMInv.Owner == ViewportOwner.Actor || FoundMInv.Owner == ViewportOwner.Actor.Pawn)

This is to prevent someone whom is spectating from obtaining the MonsterPointsInv from being successfully replicated to them.

From all reports, this seemed to greatly help, however, if it's still happening, there must be something interesting going on.

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TheDruidXpawX

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As an interesting area to look at, and something that I wouldn't think could happen...

In the simulated tick() method (executed client side) of MonsterPointsInv, there is logic that decides if it needs to spawn the HUD, and if so, it spawns it and actually assigns the appropriate MonsterPointsInv to it...

To prove this theory out, a dead medic needs to spectate a live medic with monsters, or a live player with a used summon charm and live monsters.

When the medic respawns, it's entirely possible that they will have the HUD from the other player... I wouldn't think the tick methods would be called from the spectating client, but it wouldn't be the first time unrealscript has done something I wouldn't have anticipated....

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BotFodder

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TheDruidXpawX wrote:
To prove this theory out, a dead medic needs to spectate a live medic with monsters, or a live player with a used summon charm and live monsters.

When the medic respawns, it's entirely possible that they will have the HUD from the other player... I wouldn't think the tick methods would be called from the spectating client, but it wouldn't be the first time unrealscript has done something I wouldn't have anticipated.... 

Hmmm ... thing is *non-Medics* are the ones noticing the bug the most. So perhaps a non-medic needs to spectate a medic and have the medic summon something whille they are being spectated? Then the spectator might get the points when they come back in?

I think it less likely to be more complex than that; since newbies are the ones noticing it more, they are more likely to die but less likely to be using a Monster Summoner with any regularity.

If I have at all understood everything, it's less likely that a "medic spectating a non-medic" would cause the non-medic to see MPs. However, it's highly possible (and I'd swear I've witnessed the symptom myself, but can't verify the circumstances yet) that a dead medic spectating someone with a summoned monster would end up *not* seeing his MPs when he came back in.

I'd be willing to switch back to playing my Medic as my primary character to test some of this (and hold off summoning stuff until someone tells me they are spectating me). Thing is, if it involves him dying, that became slightly more problematic now - he's got Ghost 1.

This is one of those things where I almost wish there was a way to pause the server: As multiple people are involved in tracking down exactly what happened, I'd want to stop everything and interview the participants!

I'll switch to my medic for a couple of days and see if I can get someone to work this out with me.

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BotFodder

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Okay, here's what we can mostly verify:

Without prompting, Fro was on as his medic (who has no MPs) and got MPs by spectating BotDoctor. Verified next map - he told me he was spec'ing me, I spawned a monster, and Fro had 8/8 when he respawned. I killed my monster, but Fro still had 8/8 (my display went to 0/8 ). He used a Monster Summon charm and the display went away. KirbyKing also saw my MP scale at one poinht - he died and they went away (I don't think he was spectating me during his death).

So, I don't know if anyone's ever seen "0/X" yet, but I do know they've seen "Y>0/X".

Not that this necessarily helps you, Druid, but I think it at least confirms your suspicions.

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KohanX

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You may wish to consider rescripting the whole Monster Points thing from scratch. It would take a while, yes, but you may end up typing something in and then realizing, "OH! *That's* why it screwed up!".

As well as rescripting it, test it at various stages from simple to complex, and find out at which point things start to mess up.

I am reminded of a vaguely mentioned "Testing Server" (a while back) for DruidsRPG, to help with things like this.

So yeah, that's what I'd do. But, of course, that's just me.
TheDruidXpawX

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KohanX wrote:
You may wish to consider rescripting the whole Monster Points thing from scratch. 


Attempting to fix an oil leak in a car by dismantling the entire thing, and re-assembling it is just as likely to break other things, and it's not likely to fix the oil leak.

As a task of engineering, we are often faced with problems that require meticulous troubleshooting. From my experience in software, attempting to circumvent that troubleshooting by rewriting a troublesome problem in a complex piece of code is far, far more likely to net you more troublesome problems. As far as I'm concerned it's working fairly well, but there appears to still be an outstanding bug.

That's why I described the domain of the problem, so that others could add any useful input or insight they may have into this oddity. That input or insight might come from reviewing the code, or it might come from testing to determine how this is occurring.

Since my understanding of the problem has not changed, rewriting the code will in all likelihood create the exact same issue, if not also other issues.

This is the time to tune the engine, not dismantle it.

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SilentAshes



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So, two questions:
1) For a number of months now, I always start with 0/3 monster points. Then when I make a monster - and for a while I couldn't because I "didn't have enough points" - I suddenly have 3/3 points *while the monster exists*

Is that the way it's supposed to be, or vice versa??


2) As of recently, I will occasionally enter the first wave of the game and spawn with no tally board of monster points at all. Then at some point the board will appear, i haven't noticed when.

3) As far as I can tell, spectating people (or not spectating) has no effect one way or the other.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks guys; I know there've been ongoing bugs with this for a while.

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BotFodder

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1. That's the way it's supposed to be. It's a use meter. You have 3 available with no monster. Then you have 3 of 3 used when you spawn something.

2. I put some stuff in to check and fix the display of the monster points and the names of the summonable monsters when you try to summon a monster. It works - but you sometimes end up summoning something other than what you want. I've given up - sometimes, the nature of drawing stuff on the screen and replication means stuff doesn't always work as it should.

3. The MP indicator does have instances where it just plain doesn't work (displays "0 of X used", even when something is summoned), and I just can't figure out why or figure out how to fix that.

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