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Vamp and Energy stacking  XML
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320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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Do vamp and energy weapons still stack for players who have maxed out those skills? I.e. if a LA player with leach 5 gets an energy 3 wep, are they now pulling in 8% as adren? Same thing with vamp. Is the max possible vamp in the game level 13.5 (vamp 10 + vamp 7 wep)?

Szlat

Wicked Sick!

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I believe they both stack.

Energy leech doesn't work on rage weapons, or poison damage caused by a poison weapon, and doesn't work if in a combo or have an active artifact.
Leech gives 1% per level max 5, and energy weapon +2% per modifier, max level 3, so max would be 5% + 6% = 11% of damage as adrenaline. Plus of course drip and adrenaline surge.
If you are in a combo or have an active artifact, then I think only surge and energy weapons give energy, drip and leech are disabled.

Vampire again doesn't work on rage weapons or poison damage caused by a poison weapon. So running both would give Vampire level 13.5, or 65% of damage back as health. And it works while you have an active artifact or in a combo.

I also think that if you instagib a monster with a vorpal, you don't get back vampire or adrenaline from the vorpal part of the kill. I am not sure you even get the experience? Probably just 1 xp.
320

Wicked Sick!

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Szlat wrote:
I believe they both stack.

Energy leech doesn't work on rage weapons, or poison damage caused by a poison weapon, and doesn't work if in a combo or have an active artifact.
Leech gives 1% per level max 5, and energy weapon +2% per modifier, max level 3, so max would be 5% + 6% = 11% of damage as adrenaline. Plus of course drip and adrenaline surge.
If you are in a combo or have an active artifact, then I think only surge and energy weapons give energy, drip and leech are disabled.

Vampire again doesn't work on rage weapons or poison damage caused by a poison weapon. So running both would give Vampire level 13.5, or 65% of damage back as health. And it works while you have an active artifact or in a combo.

I also think that if you instagib a monster with a vorpal, you don't get back vampire or adrenaline from the vorpal part of the kill. I am not sure you even get the experience? Probably just 1 xp. 


Yeah, when the vorpal hits, you get 1 exp. But if you shoot a titan to 50% life with the vorpal before the effect goes off, you get that 50% of the experience. The exp is awarded as the dmg is dealt, not "divided" when the monster finally goes down.

Wow, so quick calculation. If a LA player with leach 5 and surge 2 kills a titan from start to finish with an energy 3 weapon that's:

.11 x 900 + 2(16) = 131!!

cplmac

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As far as I know they stack unless specified otherwise.

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
Szlat

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320 wrote:
Wow, so quick calculation. If a LA player with leach 5 and surge 2 kills a titan from start to finish with an energy 3 weapon that's:

.11 x 900 + 2(16) = 131!!

 

But if you had the triple going, you should be able to take it down in three flak shots, which takes about three seconds with 50% weapon speed. Adrenaline used 21. Adrenaline gained = .06 x 900 + 2(16) = 86. You could have powered the globe for the same three seconds as well (+36 adrenaline) and still be 29 adrenaline better off.
ck

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Joined: 01/20/2006 17:28:27
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Yeah, when the vorpal hits, you get 1 exp. But if you shoot a titan to 50% life with the vorpal before the effect goes off, you get that 50% of the experience. The exp is awarded as the dmg is dealt, not "divided" when the monster finally goes down.

Wow, so quick calculation. If a LA player with leach 5 and surge 2 kills a titan from start to finish with an energy 3 weapon that's:

.11 x 900 + 2(16) = 131!!  


hehe, 320, let's not share the secrets of the LA guild please. next thing they'll find out that we can use triple infinitly because of the bug (oops).

on a more serious note, i usually have a hard time deciding on energy 3 or vampiric +7 or damage +5, very rewarding wep. your math also shows why running the triple and having leech and AS at the same time is not allowed.
320

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ck wrote:
Yeah, when the vorpal hits, you get 1 exp. But if you shoot a titan to 50% life with the vorpal before the effect goes off, you get that 50% of the experience. The exp is awarded as the dmg is dealt, not "divided" when the monster finally goes down.

Wow, so quick calculation. If a LA player with leach 5 and surge 2 kills a titan from start to finish with an energy 3 weapon that's:

.11 x 900 + 2(16) = 131!!  


hehe, 320, let's not share the secrets of the LA guild please. next thing they'll find out that we can use triple infinitly because of the bug (oops).

on a more serious note, i usually have a hard time deciding on energy 3 or vampiric +7 or damage +5, very rewarding wep. your math also shows why running the triple and having leech and AS at the same time is not allowed. 


Well, I gave away a lot of the tricks LW players use and the results have been great, IMO. But not all would agree. Maybe if people understand LA a little better they'll give it a try.

I think with the demise of the flak 5, the energy 3 is going to be tops for LA. Vamp is in there too, but with all that adren, as long as you can whip out the globe when it counts, it will be second place. That's what it boils down to, I think, how well you can juggle artifacts and turn them off and on.


Szlat

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320 wrote:
I think with the demise of the flak 5, the energy 3 is going to be tops for LA.  

Energy +4 for the higher level LAs, with the Max+1 artifact.

320 wrote:
That's what it boils down to, I think, how well you can juggle artifacts and turn them off and on. 

Agreed.

In a post above I described how you could run a triple and a globe together with an energy 3, take out a titan and end up up 29 adrenaline better off.
If instead you used an energy+4, and double magic'ed it, you would have an energy+8 flak.
This would do 8 x +3% damage, which is 1.24. A Flak normally gives 117 max damage, so you would get 145 damage a shot. 7 shots to kill, time 7 seconds. Adrenaline used 7 * (10+12)=154. Adrenaline back = .16 x 900 + 2(16) = 176.
As 320 says, its down to how well you can switch them on and off. The trick to running it for a long time would be to switch the globe on and off as required. If you could switch both on and off with a single key, this triple+globe or double magic+globe would be a common occurrence. Which is probably why, for balance purposes, it is better not to have single keys to activate individual artifacts - it gets too powerful. As it is, you waste a lot of time switching between artifacts to activate the correct ones.
Spacey

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If I drop everything into max adren, it is only something like 7 more levels to go till that max+1 becomes useful, but that seems so very very far away. As it is, I am wondering if I should throw more into DB and WS before then. I am at 50 and 31 respectively on those, and 204 for adren.

As for turning them on and off quickly, I found myself fumbling across to hit the button, and kept pulling up my TL, so last night, I bound a second key (PgDn) to go along with the 5D key which I should still be able to reach easily without moving my hand too much off the arrow keys, and without a risk of hitting that darn shift key!

So now we shall have to see how that works.

Szlat wrote:

320 wrote:
I think with the demise of the flak 5, the energy 3 is going to be tops for LA.  

Energy +4 for the higher level LAs, with the Max+1 artifact.

320 wrote:
That's what it boils down to, I think, how well you can juggle artifacts and turn them off and on. 

Agreed.

In a post above I described how you could run a triple and a globe together with an energy 3, take out a titan and end up up 29 adrenaline better off.
If instead you used an energy+4, and double magic'ed it, you would have an energy+8 flak.
This would do 8 x +3% damage, which is 1.24. A Flak normally gives 117 max damage, so you would get 145 damage a shot. 7 shots to kill, time 7 seconds. Adrenaline used 7 * (10+12)=154. Adrenaline back = .16 x 900 + 2(16) = 176.
As 320 says, its down to how well you can switch them on and off. The trick to running it for a long time would be to switch the globe on and off as required. If you could switch both on and off with a single key, this triple+globe or double magic+globe would be a common occurrence. Which is probably why, for balance purposes, it is better not to have single keys to activate individual artifacts - it gets too powerful. As it is, you waste a lot of time switching between artifacts to activate the correct ones.
 

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KohanX

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Joined: 03/04/2006 13:40:23
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Since Vortex hasn't replied yet () I'll confirm that they do stack. Technically it isn't an added effect. The weapon effect calls the ability's related function (eg, Vampiric Healing), and then the Vampire Inventory gets health itself, so they're separate entities.
v0rTeX

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KohanX wrote:
Since Vortex hasn't replied yet (


Heh, I didn't know I was supposed to.
Besides, it sounded like you guys knew it did stack so I didn't need to interject. I typically reply much faster when people are wrong about something.
KohanX

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Ah, well, you'll commonly find people saying 'Can you confirm this, Vortex?', so I assumed it was your job or something .
v0rTeX

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I'm guessing they do that because I've been running around forums explaining the math behind the code for so long. I'm trying to cut back unless its necessary though.
320

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Szlat wrote:


Energy leech doesn't work on rage weapons, or poison damage caused by a poison weapon, and doesn't work if in a combo or have an active artifact.

 


No leach while running the triple? That's dissapointing. I wish that was in the FAQ. It's mentioned for drip but not for leach. You're sure about this?
v0rTeX

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Hold up a minute, I know leech works for a fact.

I can stand there with an active triple and nail a titan repeatedly and watch my adrenaline slowly go up not down. It's true that Drip doesn't work with active arts or combos, but Leech acts as it always does. The only time Leech doesn't work is when you are holding a rage weapon.

Also, the reason it doesnt leech on poison damage is because its not the direct hit from the weapon that is causing the prolonged damage. It is the action of the poison.
 
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