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Medics, healing and Rage weapons  XML
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Spacey

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 01/07/2005 21:28:14
Messages: 589
Location: Da'Burgh (Pittsburgh) PA
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This could go in a number of places, but I decided to place it here to hopefully have more folks see it and start a discussion.

While playing a game the other day (Monday), I had something happen to me which left me a little shocked at first. Indeed, I was so shocked that I did not remember to see who said this. IIRC, I was playing in Helmsdeep as *BEL*_e, my LA player, and happened to luck out and get a rage +10 flak. I had been doing pretty well killing titans, queens and warlords, but was down quite a ways on my health, and could have stood some healing. About this time, I had a medic come up to me and *start* to heal me, only to stop almost immediately with something like "Oh! Using a rage weapon...you are on your own!" and run off. Now, as I said, I was quite shocked and did not notice who this was, but over the next few waves, the shock turned cold and bitter as I got to thinking about it. Here is what I came up with...

Sure, a medic can decide to heal who he wants and skip over who he does not want to heal. And I can understand how the self-damage aspect of a rage weapon would likely mean no XP for them, and hence make them want to heal someone else. HOWEVER, it occurred to me that the same can be said of players doing other things for other players. A player may decide not to hand out a given artifact/relic they have picked up, made, or spawned with. A LA player can decide not to max out weapons. Or they can decide to stand there while a player gets slammed by the monsters. The list goes on. None of these really fit in with Dru's attempts to foster team play, but it has also been said elsewhere that there is no need to reward a jerk for being a jerk. And IMO, by their statement instead of just not healing, they ended up about a 10K on the 0-10 jerk scale. And, I have to wonder if they were healing folks who ended up hurting themselves through other means.

Now, with that said, I have come to the following conclusion regarding this thankfully rare occurrence. If anyone pulls this very same act again, I have to say that I will hold a grudge for some time (my wife will tell you that mountain ranges will wear away before some of my grudges will), and go out of my way to avoid helping them. As a player, I will begin by taking them off my Christmas list. This means:

a) Not maxing out their weapons, nor giving them any nice weapons I come up with..
b) Not giving them goodies, like my globe.
c) Not giving them the chance to heal me at other times, when I don't have a rage weapon, and instead run off to some other medic..

After all, why should I reward them with the fruits of my hard won skills and adren, especially when I would need to use my adren to try to use the booster to heal myself, and would get no XP for maxing their weapons or giving them goodies? And if it continues to be a problem, I hate to say it, but I may even take it to the point where I just stand back and watch the show while they get pounded, and then kill the bug that did it..

Now, for the discussion part. What do you think of what was said to me, and what my response will be the next time it happens? Am I over reacting?? And what would you do???

*BEL*_e (spacey), BEL Clan General -- You Frag em, I'll Slag em!
LA -- *BEL*_e (level 283 - Extreme AM), LW -- *BEL*_o (level 26) MM - ?? ( *BEL*_Rolaids ?? *BEL*DrWho??, Engineer... *BEL*BS_E_E [BSEE '89, Ohio U] (level 22)

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Okinesu

Dominating
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Joined: 12/19/2004 20:45:34
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It's just bad sportsmanship on whoever's part. Getting through wave 16 and winning should be everybody's problem. Some are in the game for the XP and the grind, most others join so they can chat and waste a few monsters as a team. If it weren't for mmik's constant yammering or Ooo's ever-cheerful "ya alright, mate?", (among other people and things, just what came to mind first) then I'd never get on in the first place, and I think I speak for most people when I say that.

But as far as holding grudges, remember, nothing is gained from remembering the times when people have wronged you. Turn the other cheek, dig? If he doesn't heal you, he's not doing his job as a medic, but if you stop maxing his weapons, you won't be doing your job as a LA player. It's like... if I saw someone I had beef with duking it out with some queens, it's not like I wouldn't rush over, guns a-blazing, to help. It's my job as a LW player and it doesn't help anyone not to do the best you can.

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la_bomba

Killing Spree
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Joined: 01/07/2005 15:19:42
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Well, being a medic, I've seen this happen multiple times. In the full games, there's anywhere from one to four medics, and if there's more, then the medic's start to fight over the healing xp. I've always tried to heal no matter why the damage, but I still get upset when one medic only heals xp giving damage and get's 4X the xp than me because I'm "nice."

Sadly..... Being nice doesn't get you anywhere, but back stabbing, while bloody, has proven profitable.

I stand by my decision to heal anyone and everyone (except one or two people who have not been so nice to me or others), not considering the xp, but when "teamwork" allows other "team members" to profit more for doing less and not using teamwork, then, admitedly, I question my own stance.

I don't wanna see someone die; even if damage is self inflicted, after a heal they may get hurt and need legitimate healing, and hence I still get xp. If I let them die, there's no chance for me to get any.

Keep this in mind though, if in other situations you think this is happening but are not sure: Sometimes a line forms between waves for healing, and personally, I only heal a partial ways in order to allow everyone some healing. Choosing between two out of five characters being full, or all five being at least half, I choose spreading the health around. So, don't confuse the two.

While I'm not sure if I feel this way, think about it like this: In your job, do you like getting paid? Would you rather work for free because you wanna help the company be more profitable, but you yourself just get screwed? Being a medic is a job, and we may prefer to get paid over doing charity work. (Again, I'm not sure if I feel this way, don't rip my head off, please)

Side question: did anyone ever find out if Attack bonus influences the rate of healing from a medic gun?

Noob^2: Medic..................lvl 28
Noob^3: Weapons Master...lvl 43
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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Honestly, man, I can see why you're upset. Maybe what you said will get people to think twice, I dunno.

I had a situation where I tried to be a nice guy and didn't "kill steal" a guy and then he totally snubbed me afterwards. The reason? The brute killed him. I thought about it and realized he thought I purposely let him die. Oy vey! So, being the big hearted guy I am, I explained I just didn't want to kill steal him. But he still snubbed me.

So now, I just shoot anything that moves, play by the rules and hand out weapons when I have something good. The rules define the minimum standard of conduct for the server to function. When people go above and beyond the rules, I always consider that a bonus.

My point, yeah, I think maybe you are expecting a tad much from the other player. He has no obligation to you. Courtesy is courtesy because they don't have to do it. It's always a bonus if people do the nice thing, but if they choose to go after exp, I have no problem with that. That's what I'm after mostly too. Sometimes I'll heal people between rounds but if monsters start spawning I'll cut the heal short. Sorry! But there's cheddar out there!
emetakleze

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Joined: 01/02/2005 18:15:15
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Well, spacey, imho you can't be wrong with how you feel, it's in your makeup and character. There could be any number of reasons the other fella is a exp hound. Low level, in competition with someone other then the obvious, or just a jerkey. the statement he said was rather rude though, a bit of over the top type thing. He could/should have just healed you a bit then went on to another player with out the comment, but it is prob in his make up to think out loud. (inner voice outer voice issue) I don't know how I would feel if such happened to me, prob let the guy fry once, or not fulfill his request for a junkies ability to make/max a weapon for them once, then watch for a chance for them to heal me again at some point with similar conditions as the first time (or look out for the same type of thing with another player.)And go from there.
Personally, medics are a bonus, like getting a healing wep or finding the keg when you really need it. If they don't want to heal me, oh well, I'll still hand out that vanilla +5 flak if I'm luckey enough to get one, and if they are in the pack when I hand it out, oh well, if not, oh well.

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Szlat

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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There is a tendency, as la_bomba said, for lines of people to form between waves in front of a medic requesting healing. I think (my opinion only) then that a medic ought to heal all in front of him. Personally, I don't care who the people are, and what their behaviour has been, heal them all.

I think there is a difference whilst the wave is still on. Again, if a player comes to me during a wave and requests healing, I will. Just as when I am a LA, I will max someone's weapon for them if they ask. But I wont necessarily heal everyone I see (unless they are really low!). Sometimes I will be killing bugs, or searching for ammo or armour.

I think generally that people don't expect medics to be chasing them during a wave trying to heal them - in fact some people resent it.

So, my take would be if you ask, you should get healed, if you didn't ask, it's nice when it happens but it isn't a right. The problem with this particular medic was he started then stopped. Either do it or dont.

As a separate note, when people are queuing for healing between waves, I get really annoyed by the people that queue jump and stand straight in front of you. They can see you healing others, but consider their needs more important. Not good. Queue up.
Frag.Stag

Killing Spree
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Joined: 01/29/2006 00:46:25
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
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I gotta agree with what Okinesu said. No good comes from holding a grudge. Besides, this is a game and I'd hate to see someone take it too seriously. Be the better man.

While I don't play the medic class, when I spawn with a healing weapon, I usually play the part, healing anyone I see. I don't care so much about the EXP, since I'm wasting monsters otherwise. I do the healing 'cause I like the idea that someone will last a little bit longer thanks to my efforts. There's also the occasional newbie who doesn't know about the healing weapons and wonders why I'm trying to kill him.

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Chai'i

Killing Spree
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Joined: 01/13/2006 12:39:55
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Location: Bar Harbor, Maine
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Most of the time I can't tell what sort of magic weapon it is anyway and even if I payed enough attention to figure out it was a rage weapon I'd be more likely to heal the person, after all, they're health will go down faster with the rage. I don't care if I get the xp or not, I just care about keeping people alive. After all, the more live bodies there are, the fewer monsters will come after me, the longer I'll stay alive myself, and I'll have more time in which to gain xp

The weapon that really annoys me, as a healer, is reflecting. My healing shots just bounce off and most of the time ther person stands there looking at me funny or runs off thinking that I've healed them as much as I can.

Szlat wrote:
As a separate note, when people are queuing for healing between waves, I get really annoyed by the people that queue jump and stand straight in front of you. They can see you healing others, but consider their needs more important. Not good. Queue up. 


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Spacey

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 01/07/2005 21:28:14
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No bugs were near, and I made no request to be healed, they just happened to come across me. My big problem with this guy was that he started, stopped after giving me maybe 10-20 HP (putting me somewhere around 40-60HP), and then said what he said. Hey, if they had just run off, I would not have thought much of it, and if they had healed me up past 100 or so, I would have thought less, but pressing the talk key and saying what they did, that is what got me.

As for holding a grudge and not doing my job, well if you play much with me, you should generally note I am always offering out good weapons I come across, and if someone asks for a weapon to be maxed, I will. Indeed, I will go so far as to say things like "Need anything maxed?" to a player which heals me or tosses me a good weapon, and I have lost count of the number of times I have stood around handing out +5 weapons, maxing a weapon for someone, or meeting up with someone to give them a one-off or max a weapon while in a wave. Indeed, I have missed entire titan waves doing this (titan waves are where I can get quite a bit of XP). There are even times I have maxed out somebody's weapon while I am still trying to make a good one for myself (particularly if this player has a history of helping me). And I continue to do this. But if I have a grudge against a player (it takes quite a bit to get here, BTW), it is probably going to be several waves, and perhaps several evenings of my not going out of my way to help them. So, if they just happen to be there and can grab a weapon I am passing out, fine. But if I know who they are, I sure won't go out of my way (like run clear over to find them or meet just them at the weapon spawn point) to help them when I have freebies like this. And I would much less likely to max out a weapon for them unless I could benefit from it in return (e.g. I would max out a weapon I could hand out and use myself, but max something like a vorpal...well.) But I also would not snub them with a remark like "that vorpal +6 or vamp +3 works just great as it is". Instead, I would be more likely to be silent just as if I did not hear, or in a very rare case, I might quip "sorry, gotta save my adren for XYZ". (most likely time this might happen is if I were low on health, and then XYZ would be booster).

Oki mentioned turning the other cheek. In effect, this happens every wave of every game for this particular situation. Damage is a regular part of this game, and any medic would have plenty of chances to heal me. But I will not go out of my way to let them give me the "turn and spurn". I learned that one the hard way in HS from the girls I asked to go out with me. Indeed, there is nothing in the turning of the other cheek that says you have to walk over to the bullies to give them a chance to punch you, now is there? So if I saw them in one direction and another medic in another, both heading towards me, I would have to say I would be heading towards the other medic. And BTW...if a medic is healing a bunch of folks, heals me to 150 and stops to heal someone else with no comments, I have absolutely no problems with this. If they add a "Let me heal some of these other folks", then I have even less of a problem. And I really would not have much of a problem with "that should hold you for a bit", but a comment about me being on my own...that is starting to cross the line.

Now, WRT letting bugs pound on them, I said that I would do this if it continued to be a problem. My point here was that if I got repeated "turn and spurns" from them, I might find myself doing this if I noticed it was them getting pounded, and then come in to clean up what was left. But once again, I might not see who they are and just go in while firing away.

I agree that the medics are a bonus from a LA/LW players PoV. After all, without them, the LA player is stuck searching out health, burning their adren on booster, or if they are really lucky, hammering at a bug with a vamp weapon. And as we know, sometimes things are scarce and we stay low on health. That is one reason I purchased ghost.

I hope this thread does get folks to think at least twice about a number of things. Things like watching what you say, especially if you doing a "turn and spurn". Or to get more folks to see how a LA player really is at a disadvantage in many ways when compared to the other clases (and how even starting with a MWM and the ability to max a weapon, we still need other player's help or lots of time and luck to get that heavy hitting weapon or the one which may just keep us alive). Or about many other things which I could list here...

*BEL*_e (spacey), BEL Clan General -- You Frag em, I'll Slag em!
LA -- *BEL*_e (level 283 - Extreme AM), LW -- *BEL*_o (level 26) MM - ?? ( *BEL*_Rolaids ?? *BEL*DrWho??, Engineer... *BEL*BS_E_E [BSEE '89, Ohio U] (level 22)

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Boingo_Babe

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Joined: 04/02/2005 23:06:12
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Come on, you guys, its just a game. What's with the "what's in it for me?" vibe I'm getting from a couple of these posts? Some people are more generous than others, that's all there is to it.

I agree what that guy said was rude and he should have just left the mic off, but how hard is it to find another healer? Why let something so trivial bother you?

Spacey, if you think the LA player is really that disadvantaged compared to others, why don't you switch classes?



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la_bomba

Killing Spree
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Joined: 01/07/2005 15:19:42
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Szlat wrote:
As a separate note, when people are queuing for healing between waves, I get really annoyed by the people that queue jump and stand straight in front of you. They can see you healing others, but consider their needs more important. Not good. Queue up. 


This drives me crazy!! I'll actually stop and move so I can continue healing who I was and make a mental note that the "cutter" no longer gets heals until the next map. I hold a grudge, but only for 16 waves

Noob^2: Medic..................lvl 28
Noob^3: Weapons Master...lvl 43
Mach10

Killing Spree

Joined: 01/19/2006 17:43:06
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I can definitly understand why you are angry. I'm a LW player, and if I get a healing weapon I attempt to heal anyone around me, unless of course I'm in the process of killing monsters. I don't get XP out of it, but in the end having more players generally helps me out anyways. I want those 80 XP for finishing wave 16. Furthermore, it's the nice thing to do.
cplmac

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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:10:38
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Actually you do get XP for it. I think you just don't get as much as the Healers.

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320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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Boingo_Babe wrote:
Come on, you guys, its just a game. What's with the "what's in it for me?" vibe I'm getting from a couple of these posts? Some people are more generous than others, that's all there is to it.

I agree what that guy said was rude and he should have just left the mic off, but how hard is it to find another healer? Why let something so trivial bother you?

Spacey, if you think the LA player is really that disadvantaged compared to others, why don't you switch classes?



B_B 


Word.

Boingo nailed it. Even before/after I figured out that LW heals = 0 I still heal people, just for the sake of it, to be friendly in the game. They usually have nothing to give me in return, usually low level players. I can't give LA players anything in return for maxing my weap, most of the time, which is why I rarely ask them. Specially since vamp got chopped.

(Vamp +5 and nobody wants it LOL, unheard of a few months ago)

Gets people playing, just being nice and friendly. Some of them have really risen up. The play is so advanced now, I hate to think of people quitting because they got overwhelmed. That's why I started the strat thred and told everybody EVERYTHING that I do. Any player that has better reaction/aim can take that stuff to heart, practice and beat me, I think. I have plenty of tricks, though. I didn't give it ALL away. Not cheats, though. I don't cheat, never will.

Bel, you're a technical player, good player. Just stomp these fools. That's the best way to let them know they're missing out on the greatness.

Seriously, if you get bogged down in it, you'll lose out on the greatest depth of the game.


Okinesu

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Joined: 12/19/2004 20:45:34
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Boingo_Babe wrote:
Come on, you guys, its just a game. What's with the "what's in it for me?" vibe I'm getting from a couple of these posts? Some people are more generous than others, that's all there is to it.

I agree what that guy said was rude and he should have just left the mic off, but how hard is it to find another healer? Why let something so trivial bother you?

Spacey, if you think the LA player is really that disadvantaged compared to others, why don't you switch classes?



B_B 


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Disastrous Consequences
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