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So you want to be a Loaded Weapon Player?  XML
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FodderFigure

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Joined: 03/31/2005 17:04:57
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In this thread we can discuss:

1. What skills to add first to get us on the right track
2. Why you'd think these skills are important.
3. Discuss a skill and what it does for your type of play.
4. How skills interact with other skills.
5. What exactly various skills do.
6. What each class strengths and weaknesses are
7. What each class role is in game
8. Etc...






You mean I really am important? How I feel when I'm drunk is correct?



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cplmac

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Guess I can kick this off. The standard road traveled to become weapons master is put 15 stat points into your health bonus then buy regen 1. Build up weapon speed and damage bonus until you are high enough level to purchase loaded weapons. Keep on purchasing loaded weapons until you have to wait for another level preset, then start building up your weapon speed, damage bonus, and health bonus. Continue rotating back and forth between these bonuses and Loaded Weapons as your levels allow. When all are maxed your next steps could go in any direction. Either work up your resupply if you mostly use mini and link, or work up your vamp if you like to banzai into a room full of monsters like I do, but I would strongly recommend one of those two directions. Vamp will require you to load up on damage reduction I believe, and resupply will require you to load up on max ammo bonus.

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
BotFodder

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Is it uncommon to bank points from 44 - 55 (which would give you 77 points) so as to buy all of LW (levels 3 - 5) right then?

That's my current plan (currently level 43, leveling usually every day or so - but then I play fairly solid from 2:30pm ET - or earlier - through to 8:30 or so, with breaks for food and email).

As for stats, I'm aiming for regen 3 (which I'll be able to get at 44), already have vamp 2. I do like to bonzai monsters too ("IN YOUR FACE!") but the way my points are going to work out, regen 3 is more expensive than vamp 3, and I'll have enough for regen 3 at 44 (where that banking of points begins).

I also tend to shoot for (via gifts or the MWM, if I can find it) having three principle magic weapons: flak, mini, link (getting a cursed one causes me much discomfort). If I've got a vorpal, it gets used heavily (particularly if some kind soul will max it). Otherwise I'm not good at shock combos if I've moved, and my weapon speed at this time doesn't make many other weapons feasable.

I've thought about getting points redirected, but even if you "accidentally" put too much in health bonus, you end up getting *used* to having that extra there. The "accident" usually occurs when you don't know what your next goal is or (if you were like me) before you *really* figured everything out.

Prior to this point, I've always found "goals" - like "get regen" or "get vamp" or "get resupply" (that one can be tough - 50 points to ammo bonus takes a bit - but it's worth it). Resupply at level 1 is very powerful - even if you have a weapon run out, you just switch to your next favorite one (which is why I've developed 3).

I've seen other folks with LW drop a bunch of weapons; at LW 2, I currently tend to toss my bio (if it isn't a decent magical one) as I will drop a couple of mines from time to time, grenade launcher (sometimes even if it is magical, as I have the R key mapped specifically for my flak - easier for my fingers to find than 7), and either my sniper or my lightning (depending on which one's magical, if one of them is and it isn't negative). Everything else I tend to keep, although I'm thinking of tossing non-magical assault rifles and possibly non-magic rocket launchers (the AVRIL comes in handy once in a while, and again, with a key mapped for those two it'd be better if one of them was gone).

And really, the logic behind buying all of LW 3 - 5 (75 points!) is because my first experience with LW 1 resulted in two negative weapons: my flak and my mini. "MWM anyone?!" It's not usually that bad, but the "promise" of all positive magic weapons is something I can't pass up.

Sorry - I ramble, particularly when I'm not playing (at work right now).

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320

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If I had to do it again:

1. Get my base health to 150 - 200

2. Ratchet up my wep speed and dmg bonus to max while simultaneously buying three levels of vamp.

3. Work toward requirements for Resupply

4. Work towards requirements for LW 1.

5. Immediately purchase LW 2 after 1.

6. Two more levels of vamp

7. Work towards requirements for Ghost

After that, it doesn't really matter. Once you have some Vamp, LW 2 and Ghost 3 (and their pre-reqs), you have all the core attributes of a LW player. Everything else is fine tuning.
BotFodder

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Far be it from me to disagree with such an excellent player, but:

Hmmm - Vamp and Regen can be purchased during the "get base health" thing (though you need 50 in DB to get Vamp at all). I like the combo of vamp and regen - you can just sit there and gain health with regen; vamp means you have to be able to hit something, which usually means something can just as easily hit you. Or at least, knows now where you are.

LW 5 has a lot going for it, I'd say, and the requirements for ghost are quite expensive - as is the first level of ghost at this time. I definitely will be aiming for ghost after LW 5 though. It's just that at this time I haven't put a lot of points in damage reduction (50 of which are required for ghost 1, as is 200 points of health bonus). After level 55 (by which time I should have the 75 points for LW 3-5) I'll need another 130 to get ghost 1 (45 more points in HB, 45 points in DR, and then 40 for ghost 1).

I would also like to get my weapon speed up - but the prereqs for skills don't usually include it. My DB is at the 50 needed for vamp; I'd like to max that too, but after 50 no more is needed for skills.

So I guess it becomes personal preference then regarding what you value more: stat maxing or the ability to get a skill?

I still might get Vamp 3 rather than Regen 3 - dunno. You make some good points, and the points I have left over I can sink into HB or DR, so the later path to Ghost isn't time consuming ...

I agree though - LW2 at the least with some resupply helps greatly; you start out with max ammo and (as I said previously) even resupply 1 is great if you have even just two favorite weapons.

Rambling again - but then this is the thread for it ...

Question on Rage weapons someone might be able to answer:

I'm reading the description and it was always my assumption (probably erroneously) that the vamp skill was turned off when you used a Rage weapon - however, this is not indicated in either the description for rage guns nor the description for the vamp skill. If that's not the case, then vamp 3 is immediately worth it, as you'd get 5% health back with a rage weapon. And recent experiences would make me guess that that's the case! As I'm living longer than I used to with a Rage weapon (or maybe I'm getting better). I was also under the impression that higher rage +'s did more damage to you as well, but it seems it's just a flat 10% no matter the Rage bouns ... hmmm ... vamp 3 and a Rage weapon ... next best thing to a vorpal gun I'd guess (assuming things work as if I am now under the impression that they do)! Dru (or Shan), can you clarify the descriptions/math?

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Pyramidion

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Is it uncommon to bank points from 44 - 55 (which would give you 77 points) so as to buy all of LW (levels 3 - 5) right then?
 

Well I thought of doing the same thing actually, but I'm glad I didn't... I boosted up my weapon speed to its max along with damage bonus and LW2 to start... So when I got to your situation I believe I went for two levels of vamp instead and began working at my health. I think it was a better decision because having all positive weapons(may be fun) but it won't directly help you stay alive. I notice that you have vamp 2 and regen so you may want to up your weapon speed, and also Damage reduction helps quite a bit on the waves like 6, 12, and 14 so I'd give those some thought. As for ghost, I just bought level 3 and it's a great skill but a hard one to gain early... so I'd stick with maxing speed first, but that's just me
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320

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BotFodder wrote:
Far be it from me to disagree with such an excellent player, but:

Hmmm - Vamp and Regen can be purchased during the "get base health" thing (though you need 50 in DB to get Vamp at all). I like the combo of vamp and regen - you can just sit there and gain health with regen; vamp means you have to be able to hit something, which usually means something can just as easily hit you. Or at least, knows now where you are.

LW 5 has a lot going for it, I'd say, and the requirements for ghost are quite expensive - as is the first level of ghost at this time. I definitely will be aiming for ghost after LW 5 though. It's just that at this time I haven't put a lot of points in damage reduction (50 of which are required for ghost 1, as is 200 points of health bonus). After level 55 (by which time I should have the 75 points for LW 3-5) I'll need another 130 to get ghost 1 (45 more points in HB, 45 points in DR, and then 40 for ghost 1).

I would also like to get my weapon speed up - but the prereqs for skills don't usually include it. My DB is at the 50 needed for vamp; I'd like to max that too, but after 50 no more is needed for skills.

So I guess it becomes personal preference then regarding what you value more: stat maxing or the ability to get a skill?

I still might get Vamp 3 rather than Regen 3 - dunno. You make some good points, and the points I have left over I can sink into HB or DR, so the later path to Ghost isn't time consuming ...

I agree though - LW2 at the least with some resupply helps greatly; you start out with max ammo and (as I said previously) even resupply 1 is great if you have even just two favorite weapons.

Rambling again - but then this is the thread for it ...

Question on Rage weapons someone might be able to answer:

I'm reading the description and it was always my assumption (probably erroneously) that the vamp skill was turned off when you used a Rage weapon - however, this is not indicated in either the description for rage guns nor the description for the vamp skill. If that's not the case, then vamp 3 is immediately worth it, as you'd get 5% health back with a rage weapon. And recent experiences would make me guess that that's the case! As I'm living longer than I used to with a Rage weapon (or maybe I'm getting better). I was also under the impression that higher rage +'s did more damage to you as well, but it seems it's just a flat 10% no matter the Rage bouns ... hmmm ... vamp 3 and a Rage weapon ... next best thing to a vorpal gun I'd guess (assuming things work as if I am now under the impression that they do)! Dru (or Shan), can you clarify the descriptions/math? 


Regen 1 or 2 are not bad at low levels because you've got about 20-30 "dead" seconds as one round is widing down and the next is winding up. If you took a beating last round, a little regen can help you stay in the game while you look for health. I wouldn't go past regen 2, though.

Vamp is simply superior. When you get to vamp 4, you'll forget regen even existed. Imagine you're lobbing flak balls into a crowd of bad guys and doing 100 dmg per shot. With vamp 4, in about five seconds you'll get back 100 points of health and keep going until you are at your base health + 50. With regen 5, you'd need to wait 20 seconds to get that much and you'd stop when you got back to your base health.

Even without the +50 health bonus, vamp is still much more powerful. Don't get me wrong, regen is definately not useless but it's more of an "icing on the cake" skill than something I would consider "core".

As for the rage weps, your vamp is null when you arm one. This is an occasional scenario, though. I wouldn't worry about tailoring your stats for it early on.

Vamp is great and all but it takes a LONG time to build up. I got to level 4 and then didn't touch it for about 50 levels while I got Ghost and some other stuff. You have to break up the exp grind monotony. Quickfoot and Awareness, for example, are two really "fun" skills.

BotFodder

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How do I become a Weapons Master?

Hit "L" to get into your Stats window. Look for the skill "Class: Weapons Master". It will cost 1 point to buy this skill.

After this, skill purchasing may require a long term plan ...

Almost everyone will tell you that you want to put points in Health Bonus. I don't dispute this, but there are other skills that will assist you in becoming a good WM:

You'll want to get Resupply. But that requires 50 points into Max Ammo.

You'll want to get Vamp (and maybe Regen). But Vamp requires 50 points into Damage Bonus (and each level of Regen requires 30 points of Health Bonus).

You'll want to work on your "Loaded Weapons" skill. However, level 2 cannot be purchased until your level is 40.

You'll want Weapon Speed. However, once you get this maxed, you'll want to consider getting Resupply 2.

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Moof

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What I did was get 50 points in Health Bonus, then get Loaded Weapons 1 flat out right off the bat. At low levels, I took mostly stats. Weapons speed to 25, Damage Bonus to 50, and Ammo to 25. In there, I also picked up Vamp 1 and 2.

That's around 160 points, and that will take you to the low 20s in level.

Next big purchase was maxing Weapon Speed to 50 (25 points).

Then, the next big purchase was Damage Reduction to 30 (30 points), which even with 50 Health Bonus resulted in a MASSIVE increase in survivability. I'm talking dying wave 12, every time, since I can't quite seem to get the knack of Warlords, to being able to stay up most rounds in wave 12 and also being able to take a direct rock hit from a Titan if I have high health and some shield.

Now I'm level 35. The current plan is, at level 40, to have:

Weapon Speed 50
Health Bonus 100
Damage Bonus 50
Damage Reduction 35
Ammo Bonus 25

Vamp 2
Loaded Weapons 2

That's how I did it.

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InsaneManiac

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Since I am a LW player I'll state what I did. The first thing I did was I focused on balancing out my stats and make sure I kept an even balance between my defense, offense, weapon speed, and health points. Between level 1-10 I focused on raising my defense and attack. Then between 11-20 I focused on defense. With defense I was able to survive longer. During wave 11 and 12 I was wasted by either a Queen or a Metal Skaarj. I couldnt even think of messing with the Titans or Overlords. When wave 14 and 16 came around, I would focus on just staying alive. Instead of trying to go for kills.

After I hit level 25, I concentrated on raising my weapon speed and health. At this time my defense was in the mid 30's. The first thing I did was raise my health so I could get regeneration. I chose to get regeneration because I knew that if I didnt make a hit on the enemy I wouldnt be able to regain health. Not to mention that if I even did score a few hits, I would lose more health than I would gain it. It was more logical to get regeneration. At about level 30 I bought level 1 regeneration. After I got regeneration and my health raised, I decided to try and get Loaded Weapons 1.

After I bought Loaded Weapons 1 I decided to focus on maxing out my defense. My Defense was the 2nd highest stat next to Health. Now between level 30-36 I concenctrated on maxing out my defense and raising my weapons speed by small amounts. By the time I hit level 44, I had saved enough stat points to by Loaded Weapons 2. Now between level 45 and level 50, my focus was getting max weapon speed, max defense and getting my health to at least 108. Also to mention, my adrenaline was 10 points higher than normal. (Which is 110 Adrenaline.)

Honestly I think if your going to focus on being a Weapons Master you should concentrate on weapon speed, defense, health, and attack. You need to also try and keep a even balance between your stats. Afterwards focus on getting LW 5. That is what I am trying to do right now. I know it will be worth it in the end.

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TIMMY

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For LW players......vamp is probably their most important skill....basically work with vamp3-4, LW1-3, regen1, ammoregen1-2,quickfoot1-2 while maxing out health bonus, damage bonus, damage reduction, weapon speed and getting 50 max ammo..........after dat concentrate on getting ghost3 then it doesnt really matter wat u do next.....u could get awareness if ur into kill-stealing.......but its up to u............

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Grizzled_Imposter

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Wow, I did pretty much what 320 recomended. I am happy with the results too. The only real deviation was that I bought quickfoot 1 as soon as I could.

2 things I feel are a waste to my play style.

Ammo regen 2 I won't buy for a while yet. I held off because with LW3 you start with max ammo for all of your weapons, and you have a lot of weapons you can cycle through.

LW 4 and 5. I will wait to buy these for a while yet, there is usualy a fairly helpful LA on to pass out decent weapons when I play, I also like to be able to
spawn new weapons when I die and the random element of what I get is kind of fun. Ya, I have had maps where every weapon I had was cursed, but that is part of the fun.

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Thanks Grizzled.

Some of the info has changed. There aren't the same pre-req's for LW. Not to mention, there's the medics.

With the medics, the game has totally changed. A lot of my stat suggestions are based on a new player being able to survive, but survival is generally easier these days.

That's a good thing, because it allows players to experiment a little more earlier on.
Moof

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Update!

See my above post for 1-40.

Moof wrote:

The current plan is, at level 40, to have:

Weapon Speed 50
Health Bonus 100
Damage Bonus 50
Damage Reduction 35
Ammo Bonus 25

Vamp 2
Loaded Weapons 2
 


I'm level 63 now, and let me add that post level 40 I'm probably not taking the path most players will take. Some might agree with me. What I'm doing is taking Resupply early - or, at least, what I see to be early. Perhaps it's not really a high level skill; I'm not sure. Regardless, having Resupply 1 at level 45ish was a major help. It didn't remove ammo from the equation, but it sure as heck made an unbelievable difference.

Also, side note: I accidentally put 5 extra points into DB, so it's 55, not 50.

Levels are approximate; I don't remember exacts, and I don't feel like doing the math at the moment.

41-46: Ammo bonus to 50, Resupply 1
46-55: Save for LW. Buy LW 3, 4, and 5 at level 55.
55-57: Max DR to 50.
57-64: Max HB to 200.
64-75: Ghost 1 and 2 at 75.

So, plan at Level 75:

Weapon Speed 50
Health Bonus 200
Damage Bonus 55
Damage Reduction 50
Ammo Bonus 50

Loaded Weapons 5
Resupply 1
Vamp 2
Ghost 2


....and the grand plan, for what I would consider my "core" skills:

Code:
 Weapon speed		 50
 Health bonus		200
 Max adrenaline		  5 (250)
 Damage bonus		 80
 Dam reduction		 50
 Max ammo		 50 (80)
 			---
 			335 points
 
 Loaded Weapons	5	100	= 10 + 15 + 20 + 25 + 30
 Resupply	1	 15
 Vampirism	4	 70	= 10 + 15 + 20 + 25
 Ghost		3	 85	= 40 + 25 + 20
 Advanced DB	10	 50	= 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5
 Awareness	2	 45	= 20 + 25
 Regeneration	5	125	= 15 + 20 + 25 + 30 + 35
 			----
 			490 points
 			= 825 points/level 118
 

Moof, Scholar of Ni

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Moof

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Okay! Another update!

I'm level 74 now. The next ten levels will be dedicated solely to damage. Starting with level 75, each level I'll buy one level of Advanced DB and put the remaining two points in the DB stat. That way, at level 86, I'll have Advanced DB 10 and maxed DB, which will complete my stats.

So, plan at Level 86:

Weapon Speed 50
Health Bonus 200
Damage Bonus 80
Damage Reduction 50
Ammo Bonus 50

Loaded Weapons 5
Vamp 2
Resupply 1
Ghost 2
Advanced DB 10


My master plan has also been slightly revised since last time. No Regen 5 for a core skill, only 2, and I'll pick up Vamp 5 instead of 4 and Resupply 2 instead of 1.

Code:
 Weapon speed		 50
 Health bonus		200
 Max adrenaline		  5 (250)
 Damage bonus		 80
 Dam reduction		 50
 Max ammo		 50 (80)
 			---
 			335 points
 
 Loaded Weapons	5	100	= 10 + 15 + 20 + 25 + 30
 Vampirism	5	100	= 10 + 15 + 20 + 25 + 30
 Resupply	2	 35	= 15 + 20
 Ghost		3	 85	= 40 + 25 + 20
 Advanced DB	10	 50	= 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5
 Regeneration	2	 35	= 15 + 20
 Awareness	2	 45	= 20 + 25
 			---
 			450 points
 			= 785 points/level 113
 

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