Some other balance issues - Rod and Piercing

there are... nali their names are nali, pupaes, mantas.. those guys take adren, give no adren back and no exp..

For rod:
slow down the fire rate for non AMs (AMs should be more proficient with it than others)

For piercing:
I can't disagree with piercing being too powerful, going from +30% maxed to +6% maxed seems like a hefty nerf.
Why not half it, or reduce the max modifier to +3. What benefit does the modifier add to piercing other than damagebonus.

Or if you do make the +1 artifact, nerf the damagebonus for all weps, and increase the maxmodifiers.

greg11 wrote:

For piercing:
I can't disagree with piercing being too powerful, going from +30% maxed to +6% maxed seems like a hefty nerf.
Why not half it, or reduce the max modifier to +3. What benefit does the modifier add to piercing other than damagebonus.

The modifier is just used for the damage bonus. I just wanted to get it working with the triple. Never mind.

Szlat wrote:

The modifier is just used for the damage bonus. I just wanted to get it working with the triple. Never mind.

Some thoughts about modifiers:
The wider range of modifiers reduces the probability that a player will roll a maxed wep. But AMs can easily max a wep in one go. Back when I ran a server, new players thought the max artifact was for weapon masters. It does seem odd that an AM can make their weapons more powerful instead of the weapon masters.

The weapon proficiency ability makes sense with WMs. A trained weapon handler should be able to do more damage. WMs shouldn't be able to increase the magical ability of a weapon.

Comparing an AM to a mage: it would make more sense that an AM cannot become proficient in a weapon but improve the magical abilities.

The damagebonus per modifier level was not part of the original rpg code.
Would removing it, or reducing its effect on all weapons make more sense. It seems that players only want the weapons that are powerful, and don't care about the other magical abilities such as protection or quickfoot.

Basically what I am suggesting is this:
Zero out the damagebonuses for all weps (or reduce to under 1%.) Make all damagebonuses equal.
Give all modifiers an equal larger range (something like -2 to 10). Vanilla weps don't need modifiers if the damagebonuses are removed.
Replace the maxmodifier, max +1 and remote max with just a +1 artifact and remote +1.
the +1 artifact can be used by all classes up to +3, AMs can go to the Max.

Maybe we could come up with new magical modifiers that don't focus so much on damage. One that comes to mind is a confusion modifier that when a monster is damaged, it temporary attacks the nearest monster it finds. (would be funny to see in deathmatch)

With the recent nerfing of the engineer link gun a similar thing can be applied. Nerf the link gun some more and give the engineers an ability to up the power of the engineer link gun (link length, db, and speed) It could be three separate abilities.

greg11 wrote:

The damagebonus per modifier level was not part of the original rpg code.

Agreed, except of course for the Damage magic type.

greg11 wrote:

Would removing it, or reducing its effect on all weapons make more sense. It seems that players only want the weapons that are powerful, and don't care about the other magical abilities such as protection or quickfoot.

People do use different magic types. For a low level AM, a vampire weapon is wonderful. But high levels just want the piercing.

greg11 wrote:

Basically what I am suggesting is this:
Zero out the damagebonuses for all weps (or reduce to under 1%.) Make all damagebonuses equal.
Give all modifiers an equal larger range (something like -2 to 10). Vanilla weps don't need modifiers if the damagebonuses are removed.
Replace the maxmodifier, max +1 and remote max with just a +1 artifact and remote +1.
the +1 artifact can be used by all classes up to +3, AMs can go to the Max.

Ask 10 people and you will get at least 11 answers about how the weapons should be structured

I have a history of complaining about a number of issues - the piercing +30% damage, why vorpal does upto 100% extra, why various ones can't work with the triple, why AMs should have better weapons than WMs etc., but lots of people have used the weapons for a long time, they are used to them, and don't want change. Change is typically seen as nerf.
I was having a discussion woth Druid the other day about balance, and that instead of balancing down to the lowest to make it fair, perhaps we ought to be balancing up. Making the monsters stronger to compensate is never a problem. But people will always remember their favourite pre-nerf. Mine was the Vampire weapon that did +70% damage - those were the days - who needed medics?

I even at one stage completely re-wrote the weapons stuff - where all weapons were the same basic class, and the magic of a weapon was an addition. So you could pick up a vampire powerup dropped by a monster or luck weapon and apply it to a weapon. All weapons had a modifier range 1-5. All did the same basic damage. One of the magic types was damage - which of course increased the damage. But it never gained acceptance - generally people do not like change unless they see it will make their characters stronger. (Yes, I am old and cynical)

So, much as I would like to give it an overhaul, I think it will only happen if Druid just decides to do it one day.

Sigh, I never knew all of this.........I just knew that I needed a piercing flak or mini whenever I could get one. Otherwise, I never paid much attention to the magic modifiers.

I've been working on my AM for about 9 months or so and at level 185 I beleive. My Primary weapon choice is either a Energy Flack or lucky.

I try to make the weapons I like before wave 6 but After wave 6 I pretty much stick with what I have unless someone is handing out something I would rather have.

The luck is very handy for healing, it seems I play alot when ther is no medics on and other than picking up what little life the is on the map it's about the only way to heal other than burning adren which you can't turn off once you turn on.

Of corse my other fav is the vorpral but the seem very hard to make. In the 9 months I,ve been playing I think I have made less the 20 the whole time I've been playing my AM. I does seem some people can make them at will and have them all the time. Cough Cough Brandy.

I do use the Rod a lot and would hate to see it changed in any way. I guess I us it a little different than most. I use it more to find targets or hold them I bay while I'm being attacked by a swarm.

I have Really enjoyed this server and it the only one I play on anymore. So be carful with the changes, It's already the best server out there just as it is.

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Szlat wrote:

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Maybe the Rod pickups can break, like the MWM?
That would make me really unpopular

You're already unpopular from those red flies

AND! the Lava skjaar!

As explaned to me, the higher level player want the percing due to in the final levels if everyone dies off other than the high level player the monsters level rises to match the high level player and the percing is the only weapon that does any noticable damage.

I personally have watch a high level player put 80 to 100 flak shell in to a monster and the monster not die.

As I understand it the monsters level is determined by the average of the level of the players in play.

Maybe it should be the average of the players in the game dead or alive. The would stop a drastic rise of the monster level when the lower players drop out.

I have noticed when playing by myself that the monster are tougher, maybe because the bots are twice my level, and the medic doesn't do ca ca for healing.

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]As explaned to me, the higher level player want the percing due to in the final levels if everyone dies off other than the high level player the monsters level rises to match the high level player and the percing is the only weapon that does any noticable damage.

I personally have watch a high level player put 80 to 100 flak shell in to a monster and the monster not die.

As I understand it the monsters level is determined by the average of the level of the players in play.

Maybe it should be the average of the players in the game dead or alive. The would stop a drastic rise of the monster level when the lower players drop out.

I have noticed when playing by myself that the monster are tougher, maybe because the bots are twice my level, and the medic doesn't do ca ca for healing.

I second that