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Nice server, fun mod, but...  XML
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LtWarhound



Joined: 12/19/2005 11:02:49
Messages: 4
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Could we play something other than DM? Something other than narrow, twisty, small, short ranged DM maps?

I understand that once you are level gazillion, you can eat warlords for breakfast, and snack on titans by the handful. You'd prefer that all maps were the size of a phone booth. Or a postage stamp.

But, being a lowly scummy newbie, it gets old, really fast, watching other people play, because I'm face down on the floor. Again. Small maps = death when the flock of warlords decide you are 'it, or that herd of skaarj decides to run you down. I spend waaaay too much time trying to find health, or weapons, cause I just respawned. Again. Which means even less exp, and more time as a low level. Which means....even more time face down on the floor watching other people play.

It also gets old, even faster, when a non-DM map gets voted in, and someone makes disparaging comments about 'noobs', then proceeds to vote in a narrow, twisty, small, short ranged DM map.

And no, this isn't a whine about being low level. I'm doing fine on the other maps, just tired of the constant cycle of dinky DM maps.
Ghorkvos

Killing Spree

Joined: 08/05/2005 12:32:36
Messages: 53
Location: Charlotte, NC
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In general even at low levels you will eventually find that you gain experiance much faster in normal DM maps. Not that I'm advocating maps the size of a phone booth, but in vehical invation, when you die, and you will, you are out for a considerably longer period of time, and it is difficult to find monsters to kill.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster...
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you.
--Nietzche
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Tidu!

Dominating
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Joined: 12/20/2004 14:32:15
Messages: 231
Location: Hatboro, PA
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Those are the maps I like the most..

1) Smaller, so if you're about to die the monster can target on another player
2) You have more of a chance to pick up a dead enemy's gun, share weapons, share artifacts, or form a group and not die.
3)ONS/VCTF is terrible. You walk around and see one or two enemies per wave, and it's worse since the waves are 2x/3x the normal time.

I would suggest playing in the morning, since there aren't many people on. It's a lot more fun then. And there's a Map voting function. When the wave ends, immediately press X to bring it up and vote for a map. I do this all the time, and if people don't have a map in mind they'd like to play, it's a LOT more convenient to just vote for whatever's there.

I hope there could be some changes to this game in terms of teamplay, because now it's pretty much going solo, except for hiding in a corner sharing weapons and powering up links.

edit: Another good idea is to have a magazine or something to fiddle with during waves

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this is tidu
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LtWarhound



Joined: 12/19/2005 11:02:49
Messages: 4
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Ghorkvos wrote:
In general even at low levels you will eventually find that you gain experiance much faster in normal DM maps. Not that I'm advocating maps the size of a phone booth, but in vehical invation, when you die, and you will, you are out for a considerably longer period of time, and it is difficult to find monsters to kill. 


Since I'm familiar with the ONS maps, and I know how to effectively use a Manta or Raptor, I never have any problem finding targets, even on the larger maps like Island Hop.

Also, the monsters come looking for you, its rare to find a bug wandering by itself, not heading for players.

Time spent face down on the floor = time spent not gaining exp. Small DM maps = mostly spending time face down on the floor. How is this going to gain me experience faster, let alone 'much faster'?

In the smaller DM maps, I tend to die FAST, at the beginning of the wave, when the number of monsters is much larger. So I spend _much_ more time dead on DM maps than on ONS maps. On ONS-INV maps, I can run away if needed, there is room. As such, when I die on ONS-INV, its later, when I'm doing something like trying to pancake a queen.
LtWarhound



Joined: 12/19/2005 11:02:49
Messages: 4
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Tidu! wrote:

3)ONS/VCTF is terrible. You walk around and see one or two enemies per wave, and it's worse since the waves are 2x/3x the normal time.
 


I track the time on the maps. There is a clock, shows a running timer for the map, just hit F1.

28 to 33 minutes is the norm for games on this server, that's what I've seen. That's for _all kinds of maps, DM, ONS, BR, CTF.

If you are only seeing 2 or 3 monsters, then my hint would be, don't walk around. Grab a vehicle, hop out to fight if you aren't comfortable fighting from the vehicles. Hint: Mantas are great, fast and can kill a warlord in one ram. Just remember to repair it, and don't fly into the missiles, pop up and then back down for the ram.
Continuum

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 03/09/2005 05:20:36
Messages: 479
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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I'd have to agree, if you keep moving on an ONS map its just as fast paced as a regular CTF or DM map. I do notice that those that usually have higher scores don't quite reach there average probably because the lower levels have access to the ONS weps, live longer in a vehicle, can escape monsters, and the ONS maps start on wave 5 anyway. Although there are a few ONS maps that are a bit to big most are fairly reasonable in my opinion.

btw, I havn't seen any AS maps played recently they are fun on an occasion even though they go a bit fast and have low scores.




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cplmac

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:10:38
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The only way to get different maps is to vote for them or toss it out there for everyone to chew on that a bigger map might be more fun. Tidu is right about getting the early vote in, but sometimes if will aggravate your fellow players when they see someone voting on a map in the middle of the game.

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Fro13

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Joined: 04/04/2005 17:36:13
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Hey, I was a "lowly scummy newbie" too. I personally didn't like the bigger maps when I was a lower level. More traveling to get a kill. I did like maps that you could snipe on, like face classic.

Here's a couple tips for those "dinky DM maps."

1. When you come in after dying, use your translocator to get to your weapons. You can kill a lot of monsters with a translocar on the way to the next weapons. (in dinky maps the weapons are close)

2. I see you got vamp and regen. Both very helpful for your survival, but you should get your damage reduction, weapon speed, attack bonus, and health bonus up (probably in that order since you got your attack bonus up pretty high already). Don't worry about getting loaded weapons yet. Most maps you can find all the weapons pretty quickly (I didn't get loaded weapons/resupply until after level 40).

3. With vamp, I think the mini is the best at getting your health back up (only at level 1). The rocket gets you alot of heath when there is a bunch of monsters grouped up too.

4. Find a good spot for your translocator. Find a spot where a nali can't get you. Also, keep it away from where there is a lot of other translocator. There a large chance that somebody will be standing on it when you want to teleport. Also, there is a larger chance of it getting broken by a firefight from somebody that teleported near there before you. Try not to be in the same room as your teleporter, you want to teleport out of danger, not back into it.

The more damage you deal, the more xp you'll get. Your going to die somehow anyway. So, don't try and live as long as you can, try and die . You'll die a lot, just make sure it's in a blaze of glory (just don't nuke yourself too much) . I always jumped into a giant group of monster trying to kill as much as I could and then teleport just before I died. Then you let your health regen a little bit and jump back in (I was never the last one alive, and still hardly ever am).

You obviously don't have to do it this way, but that's how I did it. It worked pretty well for me.

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Shantara

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Joined: 12/19/2004 18:35:28
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I am curious as to exactly what you would propose to fix this problem. I personally hate small maps- I think they're way too cramped for 20 people (which is the amount that usually plays on them), and they require less skill because if you just keep shooting, you're almost always going to hit something just based on the size of the map.

That being said, these maps are quite popular. I'm not advocating to add more of them to the map list, but I don't see any solution to the problem short of deleting them entirely (which would decrease the amount of fun of many people). I believe the map cycle is set to 50 maps (which means that once a map is voted in and played, you can't play it again for 50 maps), which seems high enough to me in order to keep a good balance of allowing players to play popular maps.

So, keeping the above things in mind, what do you propose?

I'm wondering what it will take for my country to rise,
First we admit our mistakes, then we open our eyes
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Continuum

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 03/09/2005 05:20:36
Messages: 479
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Fro13 wrote:


4. Find a good spot for your translocator. Find a spot where a nali can't get you. Also, keep it away from where there is a lot of other translocator. There a large chance that somebody will be standing on it when you want to teleport. Also, there is a larger chance of it getting broken by a firefight from somebody that teleported near there before you. Try not to be in the same room as your teleporter, you want to teleport out of danger, not back into it.
 


That tip should probably be #1 for any type of map

As for abilities I'd go for inflicting the most damage the fastest while rebuilding health (i.e. ink/mini with high damage bonus, high wep speed, vamp) I think keeping regen low makes me rely on the vamp more and that can boost your exp.




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LtWarhound



Joined: 12/19/2005 11:02:49
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Shantara wrote:

That being said, these maps are quite popular. I'm not advocating to add more of them to the map list, but I don't see any solution to the problem short of deleting them entirely (which would decrease the amount of fun of many people). I believe the map cycle is set to 50 maps (which means that once a map is voted in and played, you can't play it again for 50 maps), which seems high enough to me in order to keep a good balance of allowing players to play popular maps.

So, keeping the above things in mind, what do you propose? 


I see the same maps, night after night. At roughly 30 minutes a map, that's 48 maps a day, more when people vote out a map rather than play it. For example, I normally have to suffer with the Killybarn map every evening, or so it seems. BoomBoomBridge, Morphous, FaceClassic, SpaceNoxx, TheDeck, if not every evening, then every other. Extending the map cycle to 100 might help.

The core problem is cultural. Higher level players seem to want 'fast' action, which they think they can only get in small maps. So they vote those maps, repeatedly. I will always throw up a CTF map for voting, normally as the first map to go up for vote, and sometimes it even gets the votes. But normally its a handful of people, with high levels, voting the same dinky maps. A contributing factor here is that newer players may not even realize there is a vote function, and certainly don't have the names of the maps memorized, so they don't realize they need to vote.

I've had the 'joy' of being on the server when an ONS map was voted in, only to have those high level players complain about it and the 'noobs' ruining the game, and get a vote to stop that map, and start another. The problem with this, is that people playing on a map they want to play on often don't notice a map vote in progress, they are busy fighting, and suddenly the map stops... That's pretty rude.

In the end, given that the problem is caused by the server community I don't think there will be any change sufficient to address this problem. As such, I'll hit burn out on the small DM maps due to boredom (due to the repetitive map cycle, small maps being dull, and too much time watching others play) and move on to some other game. Nice server (love the Anti-Camp and Monster Mover features), fun mod, but...
Shantara

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Joined: 12/19/2004 18:35:28
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The title of your post seems quite applicable to your general sentiment. The administrators and contributors put in a great deal of time and effort into running this server, and instead of acknowledging how much work that takes or offering helpful suggestions, you complain about how it's not quite perfect for you. If complaints without constructive criticism is the best you have to offer, then perhaps this is not the server for you.


I'm wondering what it will take for my country to rise,
First we admit our mistakes, then we open our eyes
--Ani Difranco

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[KitFox]

Dominating
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Joined: 11/25/2005 07:59:59
Messages: 232
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I think the big maps are the worst.

I am a noob too. I play what people vote. I stfu and enjoy every games.

When its a never ending ONS map when people cannot find the last critter, i just leave (if people did not vote the map out already).

All in all, its a question of taste (sp?).

This is the best server ive seen yet. Keep it up DC! And dont change anything!

P.S.: Altough it would be very fun to play PvP sometime
Ghorkvos

Killing Spree

Joined: 08/05/2005 12:32:36
Messages: 53
Location: Charlotte, NC
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LtWarhound wrote:
I see the same maps, night after night. At roughly 30 minutes a map, that's 48 maps a day, more when people vote out a map rather than play it. 

At certain times during the day the maps go by faster because few people are on and they lose early on, maps are vary rarely voted off here. Also, mostly the same players are on if your on at the same time every night, so they will end up voting the same map.

the problem with this, is that people playing on a map they want to play on often don't notice a map vote in progress, they are busy fighting, and suddenly the map stops... That's pretty rude.
 


Mid-game map voting doesnt have any effect untill a collective majority vote for a different map, not voting mid-game is effectivly voting not to change.

I'll hit burn out on the small DM maps due to boredom (due to the repetitive map cycle, small maps being dull, and too much time watching others play) and move on to some other game. 


That actually happend to me about a month after i started playing on this server. I got bored of playing the same maps and being out most of the time and quit, thing is, I came back a month and a half later and was able to get my levels up to a point that I'm not out so much.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster...
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you.
--Nietzche
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FodderFigure

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Joined: 03/31/2005 17:04:57
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Location: Northern Indiana
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LtWarhound wrote:
Higher level players seem to want 'fast' action, which they think they can only get in small maps. So they vote those maps, repeatedly. I will always throw up a CTF map for voting, normally as the first map to go up for vote, and sometimes it even gets the votes. But normally its a handful of people, with high levels, voting the same dinky maps. 


Let me start by writing that I'm pretty high up there (by level, not by ability) and I rarely vote a map off, I too think it's rude. The only time a map should be voted off is when there is a known problem with it and a majority of us agree it should be done, yes, the known problems will most likely be known by those who play here a lot, that's why it's the higher players doing the voting..

In all the time I've played I see a map voted off maybe every 20 hours of play time. That's not that much.

Let me finish by writing that I don't like small maps at all, I need elbow room. Also, I wouldn't mind more vehicle invasion being played.






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