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Question about Retaliation  XML
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disastrous



Joined: 08/19/2005 09:36:58
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Do you get the experience points for retaliation damage?
TheDruidXpawX

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Joined: 12/19/2004 18:32:13
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you're supposed to

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Mac_Knife

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Joined: 01/25/2005 21:31:29
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Supposed to? Lol, that doesnt sound too encouraging.

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TheDruidXpawX

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Joined: 12/19/2004 18:32:13
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I dont know, I dont have the skill.. I've neer tried it. Mysterial tells me it does.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
cplmac

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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:10:38
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I used to have it at level 4 and found it to be largely useless. It's one of those skills that you buy when you are running out of places to spend your stat points. This is just my experience, I'm greedy. Shan I know at least used to have it she could probably give you another perspective. I do know that I held the record for a long time for most retaliation kills with 5. Thats not very many.

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Drago'Nish

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Joined: 08/10/2005 18:38:46
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if i recall wel, it does.
ive tried it in the passed, retaliation level 10,
and it did got me exp...
though, i sugest not taking it, it isnt worth it
you might aswel quit playing or something if your going for retaliation..

Zenas: Weapons Master - lvl 26
v0rTeX

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Joined: 12/19/2004 20:59:52
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Retaliation works.

In fact, it works exactly how it says it will. You give damage back based on how much you damage you take given your retaliation level, your DB, and the monsters DR. The problem is that most people never amp their DB really far above their own DR.

The forumla starts like this:
Retaliation damage = (Damage taken * (Skill level * .05)) * (1 + ((Players DB - Monsters DR) * 0.005))

So when you take damage, if you and the monster were the same level, and your stats were spent evenly, the monster would only take half the damage you did. Your only hope of killing monsters with this skill is to put as many points as possible into Damage Bonus and Retaliation from the start. Then as you get higher levels and hit the stat caps on DC, the effect will diminish.

Scenario: You take 100 damage from a monster. You have Level 10 Retaliation. Your Damage Bonus is 100. The monster has 60 Damage Reduction.

Ret. Damage = (100 * (L10 * .05)) * (1 + ((100 - 60) * 0.005))
Ret. Damage = (100 * .5) * (1 + (40 * 0.005))
Ret. Damage = 50 * 1.2
Ret. Damage = 60 points of damage

Scenario 2: You take 50 damage from monster. You have level 5 Retaliation. Your Damage Bonus is 50. The monster has 75 Damage Reduction.

Ret. Damage = (50 * (L5 * .05)) * (1 + ((50 - 75) * 0.005))
Ret. Damage = (50 * .25) * (1 + (-25 * 0.005))
Ret. Damage = 12.5 * (1 + (-0.125))
Ret. Damage = 12.5 * (1 - 0.125)
Ret. Damage = 12.5 * 0.875
Ret. Damage = 10.94 points of damage

So as you can see, having DB high, and the higher levels of the skill are vastly important for any damage to be returned. This skill is much more helpful in DM, CTF, etc
FodderFigure

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Joined: 03/31/2005 17:04:57
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I must be slow, so explain a few things.

In the formula above:

1. Is "Damage Bonus" the same as "Attack Bonus"? (I ask because our Attack Bonus only goes up to 80)
2. Is "Monsters DR" our Damage Reduction?
3. If "Monsters DR" isn't our Damage Reduction then does our damage reduction reduce the amout of damage to the monster?
4. In your formulas Monsters DR have two different values, is that two different monsters?






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v0rTeX

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1. Yes, although if you press L and check you will see they are called Damage Bonus and Damage Reduction

2. Monsters DR is the monsters Damage Reduction. All monsters are adjusted based on the lowest players level who is still alive. This means they get a simulated level with simulated points equally spent between DB and DR for them. Otherwise the monsters would be pathetically easy once you gain a few levels.

3. Your personal Damage Reduction has nothing to do with how much damage the monster will take. Only how much you will take when damage is dealt to you.

4. The first formula I posted is the one the Retaliation skill uses to determine how much damage is kicked back at the monster when they shoot you. The other two listings are hypothetical examples. Sort of like Joe and Bob for example 1 and Bill and Mike for example two. It wasnt supposed to be about any one monster.

In the first example the Monsters DR was 60. In the second example it was 75. These are just two "what if" statements to show how the whole thing works.
disastrous



Joined: 08/19/2005 09:36:58
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Thanks for the excellent explanation, Vortex.

I was looking at Retaliation more from the perspective of an EXP point booster since exp is awarded based on damage and not kills.

Doing the math based on taking about 2000 damage over 16 rounds, I don't think the return would be worth it given the cost. It would take a couple hundred levels to break even

Another thing I didn't know about was the damage reduction on monsters. I figured the higher level monstes just had higher hit points. That lowers the effectiveness of this considerably.

I can definately see how this would be incredibly useful in DM or CTF, though.
Fro13

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Joined: 04/04/2005 17:36:13
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Location: Spokane, WA
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I got a couple of questions about retaliation.

If you have vamp, do you get health from the retaliation damage?

and

If you have triple damage on, does the retaliation damage triple?


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v0rTeX

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No

and

Yes it would affect the retaliation damage in whatever way triple damage affects any damages.
 
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