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J.Zero

Killing Spree
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Joined: 08/13/2005 16:08:02
Messages: 36
Location: Ft Lauderdale> Irvine> Niagara> NYC> now Victoria, BC (go figure...)
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In the interest of making gameplay even more enjoyable for everyone (and also in an attempt to spare the admins and good people who have to repeatedly 'help foster' such an environment ; ) thought it might be nice to compile a list of the 'best-practices' floating around out there as well as maybe even provide the opportunity to air some of the unofficial gripes that people have into one single thread. (A sticky perhaps?)

So, to start things off, here's a reiteration of the official rules and just a few of the extras that have been gathered from folks thus far. But please, by all means, toss in anything else that comes to mind and it can be appended.



1 ) No derogatory remarks (incl. those based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, creed, denomination, etc...)
2 ) No swearing.
3 ) No chat spamming.
4 ) No chat filter circumvention.
5 ) No cheating.
6 ) No idling. (And no loafing!)
7 ) No camping.
8 ) No intentional team killing.
9 ) No whining, no crybabies (and no bad attitudes ; ).
10 ) No player name nerf-herding. *Note: DC contributor tags are reserved for contributors only.


· Generally be nice to everyone.
· Read the forums about what weapons and mods do, etc.
· Use text and VoIP chat succinctly. (i.e. refrain from holding mic key for extended periods of time and key repetitions such as "awwwwwww")
· Artifacts belong first to the player who made the kill. Those not taken are then fair game.
· Items generated by Lucky weapons belong to the player with the Lucky equipped. Those not taken are then fair game.
· If you have a weapon of Misfortune do *not* have it equipped near a weapon or item spawn.
· Throw weapons clear away from spawn areas when someone is tossing out magic weapons.
· Don't steal other player's skins.
· Make donations!
· ...
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NeedMoreNinjas



Joined: 09/23/2005 18:57:33
Messages: 24
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There's already been an ettiquette thread or three, but my 2 cents:

J.Zero wrote:



1 ) No derogatory remarks (incl. those based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, creed, denomination, etc...)
2 ) No swearing.
3 ) No chat spamming.
4 ) No chat filter circumvention.
5 ) No cheating.
6 ) No idling. (And no loafing!)
7 ) No camping.
8 ) No intentional team killing.
9 ) No whining, no crybabies (and no bad attitudes ; ).
10 ) No player name nerf-herding. *Note: DC contributor tags are reserved for contributors only.

 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9 are kind of obvious. What on earth is "nerf-herding"?!?!


· Read the forums about what weapons and mods do, etc.
 

If you're a regular, sure. But to tell completely new players to "GO READ THE FORUMS NOOB!" is not a good way to encourage them.

· Artifacts belong first to the player who made the kill. Those not taken are then fair game.
 

controversial. if i'm fighting a titan, and someone "steals" my kill (I don't think there is such a thing by the way), does the artifact belong to the other player? first come, first serve is a better policy. and if you want it, ask. 99% of the people will give it back in a second.

· Items generated by Lucky weapons belong to the player with the Lucky equipped. Those not taken are then fair game.
 

again, items should be first come first served. if you're the holder of the lucky weapon, then you have the first chance at it anyways. and if you're already at max health/adrenaline/shield, the item should go to waste? doesn't make sense of me.

· If you have a weapon of Misfortune do *not* have it equipped near a weapon or item spawn.
 

yep, agreed, but ask nicely. offer a better weapon if you can.

· Throw weapons clear away from spawn areas when someone is tossing out magic weapons.
 

agreed, and already beaten to death.

· Don't steal other player's skins.
 

no comment.

· Make donations!
· ... 
Boingo_Babe

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Joined: 04/02/2005 23:06:12
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Location: My own little world
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http://disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/497.page

B_B

The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO what a ride!"

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Miss Kitty

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Joined: 06/12/2005 22:05:45
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Location: Vancouver BC Canada
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Thank you Zero for this thread and the time it took for you to write it. It is nice to be refreshed with this information.

There are 2 schools of thought about artifacts.

First come- first served or if you kill the monster you get the artifact.

I am with the later. I have gone though a map hoping to find a mwm only to loose to someone else. Sometimes you may run over an object and not realize it at the time, as you are too busy fighting of monsters. I ask whom's item it is just in case it was not mine. Other players do this as well and toss it over if they are not sure. I would really like to have clear direction on this and think it should be one of the rules so I will not be called a "vulture" if I run over an item that I thought was mine.

At times I direct players to the website as it is filled with Newbie information and I do not want to disturb other players by over talking as I am lousy on the keyboards (also have a gaming zboard and it is harder to use). I try to write when I am dead or on countdown of waves.


Yvonne

cplmac

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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:10:38
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Before you post on this thread please read the link Boingo posted, it will save a LOT of time. Many of these questions are answered in that thread, and it was a real time-consuming, nerve-wracking, frustrating couple of weeks trying to get it all hashed out. Nonetheless, it has been, and most of your questions will definately be answered in there, and by the time you are done reading that thread you will understand why I am steering people away from discussing it all over again. However, if you don't find the answer to your question in there please ask away in this thread or the other and one of us will be glad to answer your question. What is stated by TheDruid,Shantara,Emetakleze,BigBobz,Chyster,Mystic,Chameleon,Llachior,FireEclipse,
DirtyDeeds, or CplMac is the way the rules will be enforced by us respectively, so keep that in mind. This generally is a very courteous server, tthe people who play here are civil, fun, and generally very nice. Now what in the world is a "Nerf-Herder"?

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
J.Zero

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Joined: 08/13/2005 16:08:02
Messages: 36
Location: Ft Lauderdale> Irvine> Niagara> NYC> now Victoria, BC (go figure...)
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The operative words being compile and consolidate.

For those unfamiliar with the definition, here's a pretty decent one:

con·sol·i·date

v. con·sol·i·dat·ed, con·sol·i·dat·ing, con·sol·i·dates
v. tr.

1. To unite into one system or whole; combine: consolidated five separate agencies into a single department.
2. To make strong or secure; strengthen: She consolidated her power during her first year in office.
3. To make firm or coherent; form into a compact mass.

v. intr.

1. To become solidified or united.
2. To join in a merger or union: The two firms consolidated under a new name.


Basically the aim is to gather together the information into a single unified, well-organized, well-formatted, well-titled, quick-to-find, easy-to-reference, and otherwise very helpful mass or area. The "make firm and coherent" points are particularly salient. It's the firmness and coherence that still need everyone's help and refinement it seems, much like there are many servers out there in the world that exist but none that rock quite so heavily as Dru & Shan's right here. It's a quality thing, not stopping until the job is done and meets the best efforts of everyone. Like Wikipedia or maybe even analogous to the difference between a Porsche 911 Turbo and a K-Car, or perhaps more appropriately between a Celeron and an Athlon FX-57 for instance. Ask anyone what their choice is and, well, pretty much self-explanatory. The one that is the product of more thought, effort, refinement, and engineering serves people better. Constant and Never-Ending Improvement as Tony Robbins like to say. (Remembering here of course the adage that "one doesn't have to be sick to get better"... every contribution is awesome and totally commendable, now if only we could focus everyone's best into something that serves the intended purposes exceptionally. Know what I mean?)

Anywho, on the lappy and running out of type time this evening but becoming a sticky still seems to accomplish the most for newcomers it would appear, as well, a misspelled and otherwise 'ancient' thread from April doesn't exactly help produce the results that are desired. Running a search for "etiquette" one can readily see the results. An even further improvement if a sticky is being considered would be to name it "Rules and Etiquette" or something equally simple and telling, that way people can just say "Read the rules!" and such in game and it would be one of the first topics people see on the forums.


As for the etymology of nerf-herder, it's a geeky Star Wars term/reference. Apologies. Thought it was more widely understood. (Google returns 473,000 results for the search term, Yahoo! 283,000.) Here's a cute one from the official Star Wars site too.

Ciao all and happy to add/delete/modify whatever the consensus is and by all means feel free to totally remove this 'new' thread if desired.

--Zero
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cplmac

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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:10:38
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It's not a bad idea to make a sticky out of the etiquette thread. If you want to scroll throught the other thread and compile/consolidate the necessary information from the admin posts, that would be cool. Dru and Shan would probably make a sticky out of it. As for finding the rules, thats easy
http://disastrousconsequences.com/dc/playeragreement.jsp
There are grey areas in everything, but when it comes down to it most of those rules are pretty black and white. It's important to note the difference between rules and etiquette. Rules are set in stone, etiquette is more of a courtesy guideline. Sounds like a good idea to me.

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
disastrous



Joined: 08/19/2005 09:36:58
Messages: 22
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Edit: Moving this here per the admin's request.

Different people have different play styles. Some people like to buddy up and some like to go it alone. Personally, I prefer the latter most of the time. I have nothing against the former and actually prefer it myself in some games. My only gripe against people who like to group is that they sometimes assume their "group rules" or etiquette apply to everyone.

While it's purely my own preference/opinion, I hope this server doesn't adopt "everquest" rules, either stated or implied. BEAR IN MIND I'm not an admin/moderator or anything. This is purely my opinion.

First, some quick background if you've never played EverQuest and don't know what I'm talking about. In EQ, there is such a huge emphasis on grouping and the experience requirements are so steep to level up that a whole culture/etiquette has arisen out of the game. These rules cover everything about where you can hunt and what monsters you can kill and when.

While some of these "rules" are reasonable, many are simply ridiculous and totally abused. I actually quit playing EQ because at the higher levels it was the biggest whine-fest you have ever seen. Not to mention, people were so fixated on these "rules" that you were often blamed for something you didn't even do or had no knowledge of. People would talk smack about you on forums and suddenly you had a reputation for being a "griefer".

Here's a basic example: I was running through one area to get to another. A pretty low level guy I passed got killed. He started shouting to everyone that I was total jerk because I didn't stop and help him, didn't heal him, watched him die, etc. At the time, I was using autorun just to get where I was going and probably eating a ham sandwich in real life (i.e. not paying much attention to the game) and didn't even notice him. But now I'm a big jerk.

This is the classic case where etiquette: "the right and noble thing to do is help the low level guy", turns into: "higher level players are obligated to help lower level players".

I see this same sort of thing happening in UT.

Etiquette: "Hey, you died and dropped a nice weapon. You want it back?"

Turns into: "I died and I saw you picked up my weapon. I'd like it back now."


Here's some more examples.

EQ Rule One: "This is CAMPED!"

In UT, this translates to, "Hey, I was waiting for that shield/double-damage/redeemer etc. and you snuck in and stole it!"

In UT I have always played that if you snooze, you lose. This is the only way to be fair. Played any other way it turns into "That was mine!" "No, it was mine!" "Well I'm not helping you anymore and I'm telling all my friends not to like you!"

If you got it, it's yours. If you missed it, tough tacos. Just because you stood next to it for five minutes doesn't mean you have any sort of claim to it when it spawns. This is particularly a problem with two people running for something and the whole "I saw it first" mentality.

EQ Rule Two: "I'm a new player, give me xyz to help me!" Variation: "I'm a new player/I'm almost dead, why didn't you leave the shield/health for me?" Variation three: "HEAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME!"

This is already in the rules, I believe, but please, no begging or entitlement. Even when it's not begging. Even when it's a friendly "mind if I get one of those?" To the person being asked it's a huge distraction. I'm here to kill monsters. If someone offers up a weapon, haul your butt to that spawn point but if you see something shiny in someone's hands and the person is not offering it, then it's not on offer! If you're pals with someone that's one thing. But asking random people for weapons is begging in my opinion.

EQ Rule Three: "The Loot Theif"

If you kill a monster and an artifact pops out, it's fair game. If you had any "ownership rights" then when you killed a monster with an artifact it would simply show up in your inventory rather than fall on the ground five feet away. The game was designed with the idea that people would go for the artifacts like ducks to bread.

If the person offers to give it to you, great. If they don't, it's gone. Don't ask for it. Don't demand it. You don't "own" it because you killed the creature that dropped it.

Same thing with lucky weapons. Just because your lucky weapon spawned a shield doesn't mean you own it.

Same thing if you die. If someone picks up your weapon and offers to give it back, great. If they don't, get over it and move on. If you really want that weapon so bad, get Denial.

Before anyone accuses me of being a jerk for playing this way, you need to understand that I've played the other way (the EQ way) and I know that by and large it doesn't work. From a practical standpoint, it's hardly enforceable. Things break down, and rather than keeping things civil, it actually creates dis-harmony. The inevitable arguments start because someone didn't follow "the rules".

That's why I don't go along with such modes of etiquette. In the end, they don't work and someone percieves they got cheated while someone else gets falsly accused.

I bring this topic up for two reasons. First because as I said, these sorts of rules generally break down when forced on "everyone". You have rules with your buddies? Fine. But those rules don't apply to "everyone". Second, lately I've run up against other player's "rules" and I see that as an alarming trend.

Have your rules, but understand that the only rules a player should be expected to follow are the ones set forth by the server owner.

edit: I should add that regardless of what I've said above, I do often share out weapons, heal people, etc. I do it because I *want* to do it, not to win karma points so that other people will do the same for me in the future. By the same token, when I choose not to do it, I don't think I should feel obligated. That's really the dividing line for me.
disastrous



Joined: 08/19/2005 09:36:58
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Fraggerman wrote:

You just can't play that way and expect others to respect your wishes. In the case of the person waiting for the double damage, if it the middle of a match and he's just standing there, then go ahead and take it, he could be afk. If it's between matches and he's standing next to it, it's because it's a timed object and there's no need to waste it during a countdown.

Actually, the DD is a classic example. Sure, it's a legitimate notion to wait until the round starts (though in my experience a new round usually takes a good minute to warm up and those few extra seconds don't mean much).

But what I have seen many times is while a round is just winding down a player stands by the DD that hasn't even spawned yet, with the idea of using it the next round if it happens to spawn. That, in my opinion, is camping. But if you swoop in and grab the DD in front of that player, now *you* broke the rules and you're the bad guy.

How long can you stand there before it's camping? I don't know. It's really a matter of opinion and who sees you for how long. Like I said, it is basically unenforceable. That's why I feel the only thing that works is first come first serve.
Fraggerman

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Joined: 05/26/2005 17:53:49
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Not everything should be so "black and white", "take - don't take". Here is my view:
disastrous said "In UT I have always played that if you snooze, you lose."

You just can't play that way and expect others to respect your wishes. In the case of the person waiting for the double damage, if it the middle of a match and he's just standing there, then go ahead and take it, he could be afk. If it's between matches and he's standing next to it, it's because it's a timed object and there's no need to waste it during a countdown.

In the times before grocery stores people had to hunt for their food. If I shot something and it took me a few minutes to get there and when I did, I saw you dragging off my kill, I would ask for it back not expecting a "if you snooze, you lose" attitude. Same goes for UT. I expect to harvest anything and everything I kill, if I have it already or don't want it I usually say "go for it". Any time I pick up someone elses artifact, I make it a point to stand there for a few seconds and wait for the person to come over and I give it to them.

Concering the weapons. It's true, if you pick it up it's yours to give back or to keep for yourself. It's funny though to see the players lunging toward a players corpse to gather his stuff.

On a final note this is something that's been bugging me (maybe I'm just petty). On many occasions I will hear specific players (VERY high level) being offered nice weapons (sometimes even worpols, sp.). This is fine, they've earned their position and they're being respected. What bothers me is when later in the same match an open invitation is given to anyone to take a nice weapon and the same player usually is the first to say "I'll take it". There have even been times when someone else will say "I'll take it" but this aformentioned player still says "I'll take it, where are you?" and runs as fast as he can to get it.

My point in this is give others a chance, If I get a vampiric or energy weapon I'll search out known adrenaline junkies just because I know they unselfishly upgrade weapons for others.

Anyway, I'm tired and going to bed, rip me apart if you have to because I've soiled of of your great ones.

Nobody likes me
Cloud34

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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:59:37
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Well disastrous, I can say I disagree with several of your points.

I honestly don't know how long you've been playing on this server, but from my time playing on DC I have a lot of faith in the players on this server.

You outlined several things from your experiences from Everquest. And to be honest, I learned a thing or two from some of the things that you've pointed out from your past experiences. But, there's a large difference between a well established MMORPG, and this FPS/RPG frankenstein combo that exists at DC.

The major difference is the crowd. All MMO games are... massive. :/ This server is just a small corner in a small corner of the online world of 2K4. I like to think that at DC we are more or less a very small community, in which everyone respects one another. I think of all the regulars I see when I play, as friends. But when I play an MMO (say.... WoW for example) there are a lot of people I don't know, who's personalities are potentially... questionable. At DC, if someone steps out of line, the admins will take what ever action they think is appropriate. For example, the other day I accidentally used language that was inappropriate, Dirty Deeds warned me about it, and I apologized. But in an MMO, what's "out of line" can be different, and the "hammer of justice" smaller and slower than it should be.

I honestly think arguing about etiquette is pointless. Everyone has their own idea (including me) about what propper etiquitte is and isn't. When people start picking apart small things like "who should take the DD" or "why high levels are jerks" they are missing the point of this server.

Just play the game. Enjoy it.

And laugh at my jokes whenever you see me on the server. :D
Chyster

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Just a note here before this escalates and tempers flare out of control. Please be courteous in your opinions. No one has done any damage that I can see yet, but the writing on the wall points in that direction.

There are many different playing styles here. Not everyone is going to agree on every point. It is perfectly fine to have an opinion and express it in a curteous manner so long as we stay within the confines of established rules.

Not everyone fits into this community that Dru and Shan laboriously administer. They literally work thier rear ends off for us. On the other hand, not everyone here fits into other communities. I am one of them as I can't stand all the potty mouthed kids. Also, there is another factor here that some people miss. Many of the people who play here are such good friends that they would take a bullet for each other.

The key we are missing in this thread is that this is a place to have fun and it doesn't sound like we are accomplishing this.

Don't worry so much and go smoke some bugs. There is nothing more relaxing than blowing the heads off some Skaarj.


If at first you don't friccasee, fry, fry a hen.
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Pyramidion

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I concur Chyster!
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TheDruidXpawX

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Woohoo! I think the majority of these etiquette posts are flamebait anyway.

Here's what I think:

  1. First and foremost, follow the rules! We wrote them, you read them, and someone with your CD key agreed to them.

  2. If I see a pickup I need, I might take it. I do not have time in the game to figure out who's lucky weapon spawned it. If you want a game that runs slow enough that those sorts of things can occur, join the World of Walking

  3. If I'm playing a non-artifact character, and I see an artifact I can use, I might grab it. If I'm nice, I'll give it to whomever killed the monster.

  4. If I'm a n00b, I'll turn on autotaunt. If I'm an experienced player, I'll probably turn it off. It's worthy to note that it's not against the rules.

  5. The first player that lectures me about how they were waiting for the keg of health when I grabbed it will receive a swift connection between my foot and their buttocks

  6. I will shoot at the monster I see with the lowest health. You may feel that I take your kills. I feel that I reduced the number of titan rocks flying about the board.


Am I saying that you shouldn't be a nice player? Absolutely not! I really prefer to play with nice players.

What I'm saying is that when I'm playing, I'm translocating all over the place. I may not even know that I picked up something you were waiting for.

If I see you there, I might be nice and wait a second; but I'm not going to ask if you wanted that double damage pickup. I'll probably just nab it.

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The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
TheDruidXpawX

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Ok, now for some useful Etiquette

And enter, the bottom 10!

  1. When you see us in the game, remember that we have nothing better to do than deal with your problems.

  2. When you write the admin email, assume that we'll answer in less than 3 minutes, and if we don't send us 5 or 6 more emails just in case we forgot about you.

  3. When you send an admin email, remember that we're psychic and do not bother us with your username. Usernames do not concern us.

  4. Poison weapons don't actually poison anything. Duh! That's way too obvious.

  5. If you can't reach us by email quickly enough, send every admin a PM, post on no fewer than 3 forums, and join the game so you can spam your problem as much as possible.

  6. If you harass us continuously, your issues will be resolved before anyone else's, and exactly as you wanted them to be.

  7. If you get banned, It is best to send us an email saying that you don't know why you were banned, but that you're sure that it was a mistake. Most of our bans are entirely unintentional.

  8. Assume that the player agreement that you had to read for 40 seconds was intended for someone else.

  9. Rules about team player kills do not apply to shield gunning players off of high ledges, nor do they apply to the nuke.

  10. Emails to the admin address that contain nothing more than "You Suck" are the best way to get your point across.

By the way, #11 on by bottom 10 is that I've got nothing better to do than run across the map to heal you.

Skin download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1189.page

The fundamental problem is this: The first word we learn as children is NO. From that point forward society teaches women that saying no isn't polite, and society teaches men to respect those who wont take no for an answer.

The world is what you make of it, my friend. If it doesn't fit, you make alterations. -- Stella, The Morning Star
 
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