Strategy and Tactics discussion

Try getting it in reverse order.

Someone say here that Denial dont work with Ghost when Ghost is bought second.
http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1291.page

For Resupply, well, i know i would like to buy it first, but Infinity do the job well for now

Triple Damage:

Here's some info for the newer players. The first time I tried the triple, it went through my adrenaline so fast I thought, "Nice, but too limited". I stuck with Booster for a long time. Sometimes I'd make a pet.

Later, I realized I could turn the triple on and off.

Once you realize that, there's no mystery around using the triple. There's just two things:

1) Bind inventoryactivate to a key you can instantly reach.
2) Get used to turning it on and off.

Once I understood it worked that way, along with invincibility, lightning rod, electro magnet, etc. my score and exp jumped about 500 points overnight.

The first thing I did was bind it to an easier-to-access key. Originally it was the Use key ('U') so I moved it to 'R'. That's easy to reach in a regular WASD format. It's really important that you can hit the key instantly. Once you get the hang of it, you will turn the triple on and off a lot. To bind the key, go into your control setup and look for an item called "Activate Current Inventory Item", it's different from the 'Use' key.

You can also bind it in your user.ini file with InventoryActivate.

Currently I have mine bound to a mouse key. In my user.ini it looks like this:

Mouse4=InventoryActivate

To turn the triple on, you hit this key. To turn it off, you hit the same key. It's a toggle, in other words.

To throw away an artifact, you open up the Console by hitting the tilde key (~) and then type 'tossartifact' as all one word. To switch to the next artifact, you hit the bracket keys ( ']' ).

When you activate the triple, it has to run for two or three seconds (figure around 20 adrenaline worth), you can't turn it on for just an instant. It would be too powerful if that were the case (heck it's probably too powerful anyway!).

The first thing about the triple is you have to actually get one, unless you're a loaded artifacts player. You have the best chances in the first couple waves. Some people aren't in the game because they're downloading the map (make sure you've got the map packs so you aren't one of them). There's also lots of weak critters that you can kill quickly. Each one you kill can drop something.

Another way to get one is if another player, particularly a Loaded Artifacts player, dies. LA guys are like pinatas and all sorts of great stuff pops out when a titan rock hits them.

When you go to grab the triple, very likely you'll have to wade through the lessar artifacts to get one, such as boots of flight or electro magnet. Under normal circumstances, you can only get three artifacts but there's a little trick. If you stand over an artifact, when it starts to disapear, you'll pick it up anyway! If you do the texas two-step over the pile of artifacts, you can pick up several this way.

As far as actually using it, I save up adren for the tougher waves. The triple will take down bad guys so fast you can charge them outright while firing. At lower levels, you might want to hang back with a Shock or lightning and use it, though. This way, you'll rack up considerably more exp.

The moment the bad guy goes down you shut off the triple and look for the next monster. This part takes practice because of the two or three second minimum duration I mentioned before. You might kill a bad guy instantly and hit the "off" button but the triple won't turn off. You need to hit the "off" button again after those required seconds have passed or the triple will run your adrenaline down to zero. When you get comfortable turning the triple on and off, you will get progresively more daring.

The first few times you use the triple, expect to run out of adrenaline very quickly as you fumble to turn it on and off and forget to turn it off. Once you get good, though, you can make the triple last at least half the wave with 100 adrenaline if you play it right. Each titan you take down gets you an additional 16 adren. I believe you need a minimum of 14 adren to turn it on. I played with 107 adren up until recently and did fine.

Someone asked me today if you can use the triple with the deemer, and as far as I know the answer is yes. I always click mine on when I fire and see the deemer about to impact. Three deemers is always better than one, unless you happen to be too close...

Now if I can only find that elusive quad damage...............

Kill some titans. Get some exp. Marry head chearleader. Get a pony.

1) It's counterintuitive, but most of the time you are safest from titans out in the open. Most people want to go hide somewhere. The titan throws a rock into your hidey-hole and it bounces around the walls until it kills you. Some maps don't offer a lot of open space, though. High places are good when the map has no ceiling. Other times, people stand next to walls and a titan spawns above them. Now the titan has a big advantage!

2) Never linger on stairs or ramps. You're just asking to get stepped on. Use your trans to get to higher places, not the stairs.

3) If you hang with a group, a rock intended for someone else is going to hit you. You basically want to go it alone. It's okay to work around other players but don't play as a tight group.

4) If you don't use the radar you will always die on titan stages.

5) If you don't keep moving you will always die on titan stages. Hop back and forth. Throw in some random dodges.

5) Titans are very non-lethal *until* they are throwing rocks at you. This sounds obvious but it's not. If you want to play it extra safe, run away when a titan is throwing rocks at you and look for one that is throwing rocks at somebody else. As long as its attention is not on you, you're pretty safe.

Try running right up to it and shoot it until it starts to turn in your direction, at which point you back off to medium distance and get ready to dodge rocks. You'll get the titan to half health before the rocks start coming. Another variation: shoot it a few times at point blank with the flak, switch to trans and haul outta there. Leave the rest for somebody else. You'll still get good exp out of the deal.

6) Learn to use the triple. Even fraidy cats can get good exp from titans at long range with a shock + triple or lightning + triple.

If you have a triple damage, a good strat on medium and small maps is to rush down the titan with the flak. Don't stand far away! Get right up on it and keep firing and hopping around. It will go down really fast.

The triple is the "secret" that high level players use to rack up a ton of points and exp on titan rounds. The triple does three things: 1) the titan is dead in three or four shots and no longer a threat. 2) Even if the player doesn't get the kill shot (and the points/adren that go with that), they still did a lot damage to the titan and therefore earn a lot of exp. 3) The player can move onto the next titan very quickly and repeat. To get lots of exp you not only have to kill stuff, but kill stuff quickly!

7) LW fraidy cats can get a lot of exp with the Avril. The trick is not to aim your avril directly at the titan (unless you're point blank). If you're far away, whip your crosshair upward before you fire, so that your avril goes high and then dive bombs the titan. Otherwise the titan will block your avril shot with its rock.

8 ) The grenade launcher can be quite powerful for low level players. While the higher level players have the titan's attention, you can run up behind and shoot three or four grenades at its butt and detonate them for a lot of exp. Just be ready to run... Don't try to fire 8 grenades at the titan unless you have it all to yourself. If you do, most likely it is also throwing rocks at you and grenades are a really bad idea. Shoot at most three or four and quickly detonate them, then run away.

9) You can shield gun a titan in the butt in the same way. But don't hang around! Get your fully charged shot off, maybe a quick follow up and then get out of there. Or better yet, transloc away. Find another titan that's not paying attention to you and repeat.

10) If you don't have a triple and are up against two or more titans, that's a risky scenario. Try to keep the odds to one on one. Sometimes you can do this on small maps by just going around a corner so that only one can throw rocks at you while the other is stuck behind him.

11) If you like to look death in the face and fight five titans at once, you should try the Awareness skill. This will tell you which titans are healthy and which are almost dead.

12) The titans throw rocks in a pattern. I hear a lot of people say that the titan "didn't make the throwing motion!" True, but they throw the rocks at very regular intervals. If you're going one-on-one with a titan, stay at medium range (about the max distance the flak can be used effectively) and you'll pick the pattern and timing up.

13) As a titan wave is winding down, switch to your shock or lightning and pick up a few exp by tagging the few remaining down screen.

14) The ligntning gun (and I think the sniper rifle as well) will "stuff" the titans when they throw rocks. This isn't 100% succesful but works okay.

Advanced Strat: If you don't have a triple you can fire an avril at medium or long range at a titan while you rush it down and then switch to flak. This will get it to 50% health instantaneously. In some situations you can lob two mines, avril and then flak.

Advanced strat: If you are fighting in a tight space, you wait for it to throw a rock, dodge it and run up to it. If you get close enough, it will try to smack you, which is not lethal. You can easily dodge the smack, all the while still firing. This basically "negates" an attack from it.

320 wrote:

The first thing I did was bind it to an easier-to-access key. Originally it was the Use key ('U') so I moved it to 'R'. That's easy to reach in a regular WASD format. It's really important that you can hit the key instantly. Once you get the hang of it, you will turn the triple on and off a lot. To bind the key, go into your control setup and look for an item called "Activate Current Inventory Item", it's different from the 'Use' key.

You can also bind it in your user.ini file with InventoryActivate.

Currently I have mine bound to a mouse key. In my user.ini it looks like this:

Mouse4=InventoryActivate

To turn the triple on, you hit this key. To turn it off, you hit the same key. It's a toggle, in other words.

To throw away an artifact, you open up the Console by hitting the tilde key (~) and then type 'tossartifact' as all one word. To switch to the next artifact, you hit the bracket keys ( ']' ).

See http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/1231.page for the genuine key binding answers.

320 wrote:

The triple is the "secret" that high level players use to rack up a ton of points and exp on titan rounds.

Ssshh 320! Don't let everyone know about the triple! Now there's gunna be a mad rush for em!

What you should be saying is: the best strategy is to run at the monsters, shooting with what ever comes to hand and if you pass MeanDevil on the way, hand him your triple

MeanDevil wrote:

320 wrote:

The triple is the "secret" that high level players use to rack up a ton of points and exp on titan rounds.

Ssshh 320! Don't let everyone know about the triple! Now there's gunna be a mad rush for em!

What you should be saying is: the best strategy is to run at the monsters, shooting with what ever comes to hand and if you pass MeanDevil on the way, hand him your triple

Don't worry Mean. I won't give up the most powerful strategy in the game, you know, the one that involves the boots of flight, assault rifle and the nali bunny. We'll keep that one hush hush. Bob's your uncle. Cheerio.

I've said too much already. This post will self destruct in 5 - 4 - 3...

320 wrote:

This post will self destruct in 5 - 4 - 3...

Good thing it ran out of batteries. Phew.

As an addendum to the titan strategy, I've been playing with a new one the last couple days. Fro13 actually mentioned it in his post so this is just to re-emphasize that so far it's quite effective!

This is for when you're shooting at a titan that is farther away from you. You fire an avril and then switch to the lightning gun or sniper rifle and hit it with a follow up shot. With a triple, this will usually take them down (assuming your damage bonus is maxed).

The best thing about it is that normally if I fire an avril + triple at a titan with full health, it gets them down to almost dead. Then some other player is able to beat me to the kill shot because I'm too far away and the follow up avril shot is too slow. That means I lose the adren and points. Grrr...

To get the most from this, I hotkeyed the lightning to my F key, which is just to the right in a WASD setup. I did this because when I used the mouse wheel to switch to lightning, I tend to lose my aim. You can zoom lock the avril, hit the hot key and the lightning is thus already aimed perfectly at the target.

You have to be comfortable with the avril and fast weapon switching but the payoff is worth it.

I personally remapped nearly all keys. I use numpad instead of WASD and all weapons are mapped close to the numpad directional keys (Num 8,4,5 and 6). That way I can switch to each weapon instantly without the need to use mousewheel.

A little experiment with Retaliation.

Most people claim this skill is worthless so I did a little experiment to see for sure.

I bought five levels of retaliation (100 skill points). Retaliation takes into account your dmg bonus and reduction, as well as your opponent's. FWIW, I have both of those stats maxed.

Then I went on a couple small maps and didn't shoot at all, I just let the monsters beat me up. After 16 waves (and a pretty good beating), I checked to see how many experience points I'd gained. I gained about 40 - 50 over 16 waves. That's practically nothing.

A couple things, though. First, since I wasn't shooting back, on the tougher waves I'd usually die. In a normal match, I'd be getting health back from vamp and losing it again. So in a normal match, the real amount is probably 70 - 100, which is still practically nothing but better.

In the description, it says you can't kill stuff with retaliation alone. This is true, with one exception that I know of. If a nali shield guns you when it's low on health, the retaliation will kill it. I did this twice with no one else around.

The only benefit I can think of with retaliation is that some monsters which might barely require three shots would be dropped down to two shots, saving you a shot. At level 10, this might be worth it and I might look into it again later.

So in summary, this skill is only going to be useful to the extremely high level LW player who wants to squeeze out a few extra kills from the round. For everyone else, it's worthless.

Here's a quick bit of info because I noticed that not everyone is aware of this. I could be wrong with a couple details so speak up if I am.

If you fire a couple vampiric mines and then switch to your flak -2, the mines are now -2 and no longer vamp. Or let's say you fire some healing grenades at a player and then switch to your flak to detonate them by shooting them. They won't heal.

When you use weapons in this manner, the mines, grenades, etc. will take on the properties of the weapon you switched to. They only retain their original magic when they are in your hand.

Another thing. When you fire a deamer with the primary shot, you immediately switch to another weapon (your best weapon). Your redeamer will take on the properties of that weapon. For example, I had a rage 10 flak recently and fired the deemer. I auto-switched to the flak and when the deemer hit (I wasn't caught in the blast ) I lost 200 health.

So if you get a healing deamer, the only way to make the healing part work is to fire it with the secondary shot and guide it in. That way you still have the weapon in hand at the moment of impact.

Now the fun stuff. While this sometimes creates a disadvantage, it also creates advantages. For example, let's say you fire a plain avril at a titan. Before it impacts, you switched to your +5 flak. Now the avril is +5. Or say you fire a couple mines and then switch to your vorpal 10 shock. Now your mines are vorpal 10. Let's say you have a vorpal 10 avril but a plain flak. In that case, you want to make sure the avril impacts before switching to flak.

Let's say you get a healing avril +1. It takes forever to heal someone with that. So you switch to grenade launcher and cover the player with grenades. Then you switch to avril and shoot him with it. It will detonate all the grenades, which are now also healing, and do the job in no time. You can also do the same thing by throwing mines at a players feet.

To with 320 up there, I find it fun to shoot a flak ball strait up into the air and then switch to a knockback weapon, and right before it lands at my feet, jump. If you do it just right, you can shoot up really high. It's really fun(I think so anyway). Good way to waste time in-between waves.

I also like to make vorpal mines and deemers(usually only get 1 or 2 pops with the deemer).

320 wrote:

When you fire a deamer with the primary shot, you immediately switch to another weapon (your best weapon). Your redeamer will take on the properties of that weapon.

I find it particularly useful as a medic if there are a lot of people needing healing just to fire the redeemer into the middle of them, and switch to the medic weapon before it hits. Lots of health all round

Here's a LA strat. After the upcoming changes, it may no longer be viable.

A lot of people think LA should get regen or vamp. With this strat, at higher levels, LA gets regen 5! Most high level LA players already know this strat, but I notice there are a lot of people (mostly LW) that feel LA should get "more". So, I hope by posting this it helps people realize that when people push the strategies to the limit and maximize the benefits of each class, the classes are a bit more alike than most realize.

When you get your adren and adren skills very high, LA can run booster and the triple dmg at the same time with adren to spare. I watched some high level artifact players doing this on titan waves or wave 12 (tougher waves - a high lvl LA player doesn't have a prob staying alive on the other waves), but I had a few questions about it, which recently I got answered.

On the tough waves, as long as you kill stuff at a fast enough rate, you can run both. The combination of high energy leach skill and surge make it possible. If you're still alive at the end of the wave, and before the start of the next, you can suicide and ghost (ghost 3). This sets the LA player back at 300 health and shuts off the booster, conserving the remaining adren and getting the drip back going. Ghost gets refreshed when the next round starts.

I was able to pull off this strategy with my low level artifact char in a more limited sense with a good energy weapon (since I got resupply).

A variation on this is pretty obvious. If you're playing LA and find yourself without much health at the end of the wave but haven't ghosted yet, you simply suicide before the wave ends to get an instant health replenish (another thing people say LA should get), rather than wasting time looking for health. This is especially useful if no medic is available or can't be found.

The boost is actually better than regen 5 because it takes you to +50 over base health and then continues to build your shield.

This allows LA players to play much more aggresively on the tougher waves.

I haven't tried this with my LW char, yet, but I think it might also be possible with a high energy flak.