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Damage reduction, how does it work?  XML
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Grizzled_Imposter

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 02/20/2006 15:59:35
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How does the mechanics of weapon damage work?

Is it figured per tick or a per "blow"?

If it is per blow, then the single shot large damage weapons work better on the higher damage reduction monsters...

If it is per tick, then maybe the same is true or maybe not depending on how quickly the tick cycle is.

Damage reduction does not seem to work V.S. each shard of flack, I have seen the link gun alt fire not work well at all on high damage reduction monsters.

Either way, there may be a bug with the flack that lets you shoot a flack ball, and then the shards to hit a alien at the same time and perhaps the damage reduction is only taken into account once?

My experiance says that I can kill a brute with this combo alone, when 2 flack balls that are succesive are not quite enough.

can anyone confirm this, or deny it? please.

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Szlat

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Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
Is it figured per tick or a per "blow"? 

Per blow

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
If it is per blow, then the single shot large damage weapons work better on the higher damage reduction monsters... 

Yup. One hit from a redeemer stands a lot more chance than one hit from a shock.

However, if the monster has really high damage reduction, then all non-super weapons will just do 1 damage (ignoring magic types). In which case, a minigun is best because it has the highest rate of fire.

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
Damage reduction does not seem to work V.S. each shard of flack, I have seen the link gun alt fire not work well at all on high damage reduction monsters. 

Why do you say it doesn't work on each shard? There may be a bug there, but in previous tests I haven't noticed it. If the DB to DR ratio is such that you are doing half damage, each shard should do half it's normal damage.

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
Either way, there may be a bug with the flack that lets you shoot a flack ball, and then the shards to hit a alien at the same time and perhaps the damage reduction is only taken into account once? My experiance says that I can kill a brute with this combo alone, when 2 flack balls that are succesive are not quite enough. 

Shouldn't make a difference. If all the flak shards hit, then the primary fire typically does slightly more damage than the secondary fire, so it may just tip the balance.
But I am confused. You started by saying that the big single hits are better, but then say flak shards + flak ball is better than two flak balls? So the smaller hits are better?


In general, if the monster has significantly higher DR than you have DB, then try to use piercing weapons, vorpals, or poison.
320

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Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
How does the mechanics of weapon damage work?

Is it figured per tick or a per "blow"?

 


It's always per shot, I believe. Some weapons are DOT (damage over time). But the same rules apply.



Damage reduction does not seem to work V.S. each shard of flack, I have seen the link gun alt fire not work well at all on high damage reduction monsters.

 


The link gun alt-fire is one of the poorest weapons in the game. Your sort of onto something though. This is why combos are effective. You are taking advantage of multiple high-damage weapons and minimizing the effects of their long reload times.



Either way, there may be a bug with the flack that lets you shoot a flack ball, and then the shards to hit a alien at the same time and perhaps the damage reduction is only taken into account once?

My experiance says that I can kill a brute with this combo alone, when 2 flack balls that are succesive are not quite enough.

 


Hmm.. interesting, but I don't think I've seen this. Try it when the server is more empty, as someone may be getting a hit in before you (sniper shot, for example). I think the only way to truly verify would be to use Awareness 2. During the busy times, I think that probably 75% of the stuff I kill is stuff that also gets damaged by other players. I rarely ever get a monster all to myself.


Grizzled_Imposter

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There were a few maps last week late at nite (early in the morning) last week
when I was playing with just Ooo and had a chance to play around with some of the "Combos" that I have seen you (320) and Fro13 use and suggest on the server. I do not have speed switch, but I do have all of my weapons maped to spacific keys and have gotten decent at pulling out what seems to me the appropriate weapon for the terrain, angle distance to a target/group of targets.

Most of the combos I was trying were avril, flack sec, flack primary, Lightning. While Im going to need alot more practice to get it right, It seems that when I had multiple blows land at the exact same time, they required less follow up.

two time's in paticular I remember it making a (seemingly) big difference, Once was when a merc spawned right near 2 of my mines, both mines hit him at the same time and he died, this is significant because I had just killed a merc with 3 mines a few seconds before when he spawned in the same place but the mines did not explode at the same time. the second time was on a wave with a bunch of brutes, not there is a chance that a few of the brutes had taken damage from other sources (including each other) but it seemed like I could drop the brutes individualy with a flack shot and ball when 2 balls where not enough and neither where 2 shots.

I have been using this for weapon damage stats:

http://belclan.ka8zrt.com/rpg_weapon_damage

I think that some of it has to be out of date or adjusted for RPG.

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320

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Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
There were a few maps last week late at nite (early in the morning) last week
when I was playing with just Ooo and had a chance to play around with some of the "Combos" that I have seen you (320) and Fro13 use and suggest on the server. I do not have speed switch, but I do have all of my weapons maped to spacific keys and have gotten decent at pulling out what seems to me the appropriate weapon for the terrain, angle distance to a target/group of targets.

Most of the combos I was trying were avril, flack sec, flack primary, Lightning. While Im going to need alot more practice to get it right, It seems that when I had multiple blows land at the exact same time, they required less follow up.

two time's in paticular I remember it making a (seemingly) big difference, Once was when a merc spawned right near 2 of my mines, both mines hit him at the same time and he died, this is significant because I had just killed a merc with 3 mines a few seconds before when he spawned in the same place but the mines did not explode at the same time. the second time was on a wave with a bunch of brutes, not there is a chance that a few of the brutes had taken damage from other sources (including each other) but it seemed like I could drop the brutes individualy with a flack shot and ball when 2 balls where not enough and neither where 2 shots.

I have been using this for weapon damage stats:

http://belclan.ka8zrt.com/rpg_weapon_damage

I think that some of it has to be out of date or adjusted for RPG.
 


Well, if you can pull them off without speed switcher, they will be easy when you do get it. Either that or your timing will be way off.

I haven't had a chance to play the last few days but in my experience, I haven't noticed anything with regards to differences in dmg with a combo vs regular. If there is, it is no doubt a bug.

It would be a very cool bug, but a bug nonethless. But hey, combos were never intended in the original street fighter 2 - they were a bug as well but now every fighting game has them. I think weapon combos in a FPS game would actually be very cool.


Szlat

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Grizzled_Imposter wrote:
... it seemed like I could drop the brutes individualy with a flack shot and ball when 2 balls where not enough and neither where 2 shots... 

One thing that may be worth testing is trying the ball and shot combination with the two arriving at the same time, and the two arriving seconds apart.
My understanding of the situation it that it should give you the same results.

However, damage from flaks is very difficult to experiment with.
The primary fires 9 chunks, each of which will do 13 damage if they hit. But how many actually hit? - it's sometimes difficult to know unless you are point blank.
The ball when it explodes does 90 damage at the impact, but the damage reduces rapidly as the distance from the impact point increases. The ball then fires off 6 chunks in random directions. These could do up to a maximum of 6*13 = 78 damage, but how many actually hit? - typically only one or two.
So, when testing flaks, you have to do a lot of tests, and average the results.

But, try to ensure the ball actually hits the monster - you get a lot more of that 90 damage.
 
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