Cutting the AM class off at the knees

Szlat wrote:

It has been discussed in a thread previously. I can't remember what the outcome was - I'll have a browse later. I think the thread also discussed highlighting players differently in the scoreboard according to their class.
The difficulty is in getting each client to know how much xp has been earned by everybody. Then we would probably require bespoke scoreboards for each of the gametypes. Not a quick job.

I like the highlight by class idea.

As for the xp earned: maybe it would be easier to implement a xp earned per map on the website game query page.

There's a lot to think about when it comes to "replicating" information that's not already replicated. It can require some *heavy* modifications to code that we leave alone (like, most of the core code of the UT2004RPG mod). Also, it's not always ... predictable ... in it's success or failure (or code reaction to that failure).

Replicating classes shouldn't be too hard, except that as implemented they'd probably require sending a bunch of other information around to each client (like, every other player on the game's skill set). This additional information encompasses a *lot* of data added to an already *fat* stream of data coming to individual clients.

Other servers are likely implementing classes differently than DruidsRPG. If they're not, it'd be interesting to see how their add-ons are replicating data, and what data they're callously throwing around to every other client.

So -

- Your "score" is replicated to everyone else by the UT core
- Your "level" is replicated to everyone by UT2004RPG
- Your XP gain is *not* replicated and handled by UT2004RPG
- Your "class" is really just a "skill" that limits what other skills you can have, and is *not* replicated ... and doing so might actually require that *all* of your skills be replicated (possibly regularly during a map) to every other client in the game

It's a trade off - do you replicate stuff so that you can do ultra-cool things? Or do you hold of replicating unnecessary data so that the game runs smoother for those that might be on slow or questionable links? Would you rather have neat little icons over people's heads or on RADAR? Or would you rather be able to see what weapons you have and all the shots and rocks flying around?

Doing it on the webserver might be easy, but I don't know how high up on Dru's and Shan's list that would be, as it such a modification would be *all* them.

So the thing with XP gain - I've looked at it. If memory serves, the data is not replicated to every client, and to get it to be so would require modifications to UT2004RPG code that can't be fixed inside DruidsRPG - we'd have to redo a bit of code in Mysterial's mod, and until Druid's decided to just combine the two, it ain't going to happen.

Great idea though.

Discussion on showing XP on the scoreboard has been moved to this thread in the DruidsRPG forum.

Please post any replies there and leave this thread to the original topic. Thanks.

(I'm arriving a little late to the thread, but anyways...)

Ghost wrote:

Congratulation to all the complainers, including the one who started the thread and who by the way, rarely plays.

I'm guessing this comment is directed at me considering I was the one who brought up the issue in the first place. Let's revisit the front page of this website:

disastrousconsequences.com wrote:

We strive to create a custom immersive RPG environment conducive to fun, balanced gameplay.

I started the original balance thread because I personally felt that the gameplay was neither fun nor balanced. If no one else had agreed with me, I would have shut my mouth. But it seemed as though other people saw where I was coming from, so I pushed the matter a little further.

One of the reasons for my absence was because of the balance. It simply wasn't fun for me to play anymore. My AM is level 135 and I've really enjoyed playing the class. I haven't been online much because I haven't had the time to try out the adjustments. Regardless, my opinions are my own. You're welcome to disagree with me, and maybe everyone else will as well, but my opinions certainly do not have more weight than anyone else posting comments about the RPG.

I really don't have anything else to say about the issue.

(ps. Szlat, you'll have to start a new thread. I don't know of a way I can move posts to a new thread

)

bout time you come around Echo ! good to see/hear/read (?) ya

I'm just curious have our higher level Ams played some more with the adjustments ?
if so what needs to be done ? (My AM is low lvl and I'm still perfecting my style with the class so I'm not gonna be a lot of help)
can we take away the timer and just leave the no triple with the bolt/beam ?
I understand Szlat is working on the DD making bolt/beam not work so what else can we get him to work on?

Playing my AM now around a map or two a day.

I got a Precious* (and a piercing flak) the other day on space noxx. Didn't make it all the way through (I think I finished 14 as LMS but we all got creamed on 15) but ended with a 2000+ score (using the piercing flak on metal titans when they were encountered).

My classical play (Triple, DMM, decent weapon) still holds. I do tend to hit the rod once in a while depending on what weapons I have (like, say, if I'm using a piercing flak). Basically, I play my AM like I wish I could play my WM - get a decent flak, play with getting a vorp shock for a bit, and wail). I share when I make something decent that I can share, if I get any feedback about people wanting the weapon ...

Rarely do I go to the Beam and have never liked the Bolt. Big fan of Mega Blast when I have the adren to spare (but haven't used it much since it's been nerfed, so I don't know about it's effectiveness now).

And on small maps I try to be a bit more group friendly and use the Invulnerability Globe on tough waves.

Oh, and let's not forget my other favorite - doubling a poison 4 mini on Titan waves, if I've not a decent other weapon to use. Even just a regular poison 4 is great (if you're a noob or not an AM) - hang off from a distance near a hidey hole, jump out, spray a bunch of monsters, jump into the hole and watch your XP counter go up a bit every second. Jump out again after 4 or 5 seconds and do it again, cleaning up any of the titans that have really red bars over them ...

* The "Precious" is a Vorp Shock, usually after it's been maxed and +1'd, and especially so once you double it. Not very team friendly though.

LMS = Last Man Standing - when it's "All you."

BotFodder wrote:

Playing my AM now around a map or two a day.

I got a Precious* (and a piercing flak) the other day on space noxx. Didn't make it all the way through (I think I finished 14 as LMS but we all got creamed on 15) but ended with a 2000+ score (using the piercing flak on metal titans when they were encountered).

My classical play (Triple, DMM, decent weapon) still holds. I do tend to hit the rod once in a while depending on what weapons I have (like, say, if I'm using a piercing flak). Basically, I play my AM like I wish I could play my WM - get a decent flak, play with getting a vorp shock for a bit, and wail). I share when I make something decent that I can share, if I get any feedback about people wanting the weapon ...

Rarely do I go to the Beam and have never liked the Bolt. Big fan of Mega Blast when I have the adren to spare (but haven't used it much since it's been nerfed, so I don't know about it's effectiveness now).

And on small maps I try to be a bit more group friendly and use the Invulnerability Globe on tough waves.

Oh, and let's not forget my other favorite - doubling a poison 4 mini on Titan waves, if I've not a decent other weapon to use. Even just a regular poison 4 is great (if you're a noob or not an AM) - hang off from a distance near a hidey hole, jump out, spray a bunch of monsters, jump into the hole and watch your XP counter go up a bit every second. Jump out again after 4 or 5 seconds and do it again, cleaning up any of the titans that have really red bars over them ...

* The "Precious" is a Vorp Shock, usually after it's been maxed and +1'd, and especially so once you double it. Not very team friendly though.

LMS = Last Man Standing - when it's "All you."

Grrr Bot, Vorping my monsters last night at Spacenoxx. I'd start firing at it then BAM, vorped. Switch to another, BAM vorped. Almost decided to try to roll my own vorpal shock since I started with a null flak (my 2nd fav flak)

My AM aint that high (68 nearly 69) but as Bot said, the old Trip still works well. To be honest Bolt in its current form is completly worthless outside getting first blood quickly if you can get 20 adrenaline before game start. Beam still has its origional use with low titans or emergency titan moments.

I agree with bot on the poison weapon. I try to get a psn mini so i can +8 it on wave 14 if the map is a wide open map. Trust me, I've seen major xp gains in maps like Hanger with a psn mini 8 on titan waves. New AM's or even low level players in general, a +4 Psn generates a good amount of xp on its own if you spray the area and tag as many things (titans) as you can. Since its % of current hp, level makes no difference nor does having any DB. Sure, you may get 0 points from the wave but easily 300+ xp. I think my best with a psn 8 mini on wave 14 was something like 700 or so xp at hanger2k4 (= to killing 41 titans if you just tag 70 of them). Plus poison helps out the team in taking hp off a monster and makign it easier to kill by someone more specialized to do it.

BotFodder wrote:

Playing my AM now around a map or two a day......but ended with a 2000+ score

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds still playable to me.

BotFodder wrote:

Big fan of Mega Blast when I have the adren to spare (but haven't used it much since it's been nerfed, so I don't know about it's effectiveness now).

The only 'nerf' I remember on the MegaBlast is putting a 60 sec timer on it? But the distance and the damage were slightly upped.

I've played a bit more since the changes, and I've decided to abandon the beam and bolt altogether unless in an emergency (can't think of what that would even be). I use the rod less than once per match, and again, only when I have to (e.g. surrounded on all sides by tons of mobs).

My original playing style still works well. I score just about as many points per match and I actually feel like I survive through the tough waves more often now. The rod, bolt, and beam were always adren hogs even before the changes, so not using them leaves me with more adren on the whole.....better used on triple and globe.

An AM can still take down titans very quickly with the right weapon and the triple. The difference now is that entire scores of monsters won't be wiped out in a nanosecond.

Bottom line for me is that the game is still fun. Now if we could just do something about getting people to vote for more obscure maps...

TheElectrician wrote:

Bottom line for me is that the game is still fun. Now if we could just do something about getting people to vote for more obscure maps...

I keep trying and keep getting outvoted..............

I'll often sort the list by number of times played, and choose the one least played. I'm not very good with remembering each map by name, so sometimes its a pleasant surprise that it's a likable map.

I converted my unused medic into an AM a couple weeks ago. HighwratH is a better name for a junkie anyway. Was an adren newb when the class got 'nerfed' so I don't have the weight of past experience to compare to today's junkie. With that in mind I feel that AM is still more powerful than WM (my WM - Desert_Wrath - is level 350+) even though the class got "cut off at the knees." I reached 'wicked sick' and had many 'holy crap' kills before I ever reached level 30! My WM took much longer to achieve such heights, of course I was a complete newb to the whole UT experience when I started playing on DC so that might have had something to do with Desert_Wrath's slow rise as WM, and explains why I get owned so much in death matches still.

I am not a high level AM but I think there something wrong with fact that weapon master can do more damge with rod then the Am can because of there Advance damage. Shouldnt AM Do more damage ( with artifacts) then a weapon master ? How do I level up now its too hard. I need drip 3 just to live.(75 +24) Then loaded artifacts 3 (27) leech 3 Surge 2(10) (50damageB+24) Denial 2 (35) Resupply1 (50+15). 305/7=43. I will basic have no chance to do anything really except upgrade weapons for weapon masters. It also seem like every class is based around supporting WP. I picked AM because I thought it was suppose to be most damaging class and weapon masters suppose to be the tank. Im sorry if i come off sounding like jerk I dont mean to but I built my class around doing awsome damage with magic artifacts. Now im basicly a crafter with the way beam and bolt and triple are. Its great that the high levels are fine but there othere levels to think about. Plz dont leave timers on bolt and beam or leave the timer and let it work with triple.
Thank you slat and druid I know you both work very hard on this Rpg and its not like Im paying you guys or anthing.I do know you want what best for all the class so I wanted to share my point of view.

Disiple wrote:

I am not a high level AM but I think there something wrong with fact that weapon master can do more damge with rod then the Am can because of there Advance damage. Shouldnt AM Do more damage ( with artifacts) then a weapon master ? How do I level up now its too hard. I need drip 3 just to live.(75 +24) Then loaded artifacts 3 (27) leech 3 Surge 2(10) (50damageB+24) Denial 2 (35) Resupply1 (50+15). 305/7=43. I will basic have no chance to do anything really except upgrade weapons for weapon masters. It also seem like every class is based around supporting WP. I picked AM because I thought it was suppose to be most damaging class and weapon masters suppose to be the tank. Im sorry if i come off sounding like jerk I dont mean to but I built my class around doing awsome damage with magic artifacts. Now im basicly a crafter with the way beam and bolt and triple are. Its great that the high levels are fine but there othere levels to think about. Plz dont leave timers on bolt and beam or leave the timer and let it work with triple.
Thank you slat and druid I know you both work very hard on this Rpg and its not like Im paying you guys or anthing.I do know you want what best for all the class so I wanted to share my point of view.

Rod is based directly off a % of a monsters total health. If I remember its 10% so it takes 10 hits to kill a full hp monster. It costs 15% (i think) of the damage delt as adrenaline. Double and Triple both work with it making it take 5 and 3.3 hits respectivly to kill a monster.

So really WM's cant do much more damage with rod with Adv. Damage Bonus since its based directly off the monsters health.

That being said, WM's cant get Adrenal Surge which allows AM's to gain back double the Adrenaline from kills thus allowing you to keep Rod going. Adrenal Surge + Bonus Adrenaline from sprees allow AM's to run Rod for a long time if they can keep racking up the kills. It was the whole reason Bolt and Beam got nerfed because if you could keep up a kill spree, you effectivly had Infinite Adrenaline.

Im not sure about rod damage. Im was under the impression that Rod was 10%then add in dmage bonus then advance damage then triple. If anyone know for sure like slat or something I think it would be cool to know how it all works. Regaurdless thank you for help but I still have an issue of just being able to live through wave that my othere low level Wm laughts at. IF its going to be harder to level an Am shouldnt he or she get some kind of reward to look forward too??
Thank you again I appreciate all the help.