Who thinks Engineers are balanced as-is?

Hmm well the arguements seems to be.....tanks on small maps = 2 much pwnage....

Removing vehicles =

So...eer my 2 ¢ on the matter is Take the engineer tnaks...beef up the health a bit.....and slot it back in for lvl 100 + ? ..along with making it cost lalot of point to summon so that you cna summon that and lets say 2 sents ..jsut one?..(yeah ..this idea seems pretty stupid now that ive type d it up..ah well..)...

thoughts?...none the less...

ps new page

along with making it cost lalot of point to summon so that you cna summon that and lets say 2 sents ..jsut one?

I believe the current system is that you have a different point pool for each type of construction. So, you have

X Sentinel Points
Y Vehicle Points
Z Block/Building Points
and Q Turret Points

I never really understood the logic behind the division of points into separate pools, but I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

o.0...must check that later tonite...so uh..?..<_<.....make it cost like ...all the Y/vehicle points?..if thats the case?..i dunno it was just a thought..:S..

Wow,

this is a passionate thread! Well I'll throw in some wombat brain-goo. I've been playing my eng charater exclusively for the last couple months and have really enjoyed it. I do feel they are a bit overpowered tho as I've gotten a higher top score with my lvl 40 eng than with my lvl 70 WM. Regardless of power though, it all comes down to a community respect. Exploiting the things that make any class overpowered is, imo, disrespectful. As a beta class, the eng certainly has the spotlight as well as it share of exploitable abilities. Although, I know there are no other classes that have popped into the game and found their stat points at -12 three times in a month so, bear with us constructor-junkies, we're not all sunshine and butterflies!

Heres my thunks & ideas:

(1) Tanks/Vehics.
- Low total health, increases with ability lvl
- Wave 12+ before spawning large vehics. Keeping a goliath up after wave 12 IS talent! Also it's not a 1shot 1kill thing either, allowing others to get some xp shots in as well.
- Another thought is you could limit the number of vehics a person could build per map. Say 1 goliath per map, if it dies, tough cookies.
- Increase necessary spawn area for larger vehics. This would essentially remove the spawn ability on smaller or tighter maps
- Allow more damage to come thru the vehic to the player, encouraging smaller/agile vehics instead of camping goliaths

(2) Blocks.
- Players can pass through, monsters cant.
- No stacking, 1 level deep only.

(3) Turrets
- I like the idea of getting an XP percentage for use of anything I build, be it turret or vehic. Nothing huge, but a small trickle would be cool. Would definitely promote the build for others behavior.
- Also allow more damage to come through to player

(4) Sentinals
- Give anyone who repairs XP
- make a sentinal that heals shields exclusively. A non-damage sentinal?

Anyway, thats just a few ideas! Many many many thanks to szlat and all others who have contributed to the eng effort and DC in general. You've done some incredible work!

cheers.
t.

I really like some of your thought wombat such as the one vehicle per map. I beg the powers that be to do something about the Goliath, possibly reduce the blast damge somehow or just be rid of it all together.
I was just outscored by an engineer on dueling keeps all the player did was patrol the middle area of the map and blast everything. Combine that with the two sentinels at each entrance and it was just silly.....especially when another Eng joined and did the exact same thing. I had a energy 3 flak, energy 3 mini a triple, globe beam bolt(LA character artifact drop) and still could not keep up with the ENG characters and I got HOLY **** 5 times!!!

I know I am not alone in feeling frustrated and I have no problem with competition in fact I thrive with it but this is just annoying.

I posted in the wrong place last time so im putting in my lil bit here too! I just got done reading the entire 5 pages and i agree and dissagree alot with what people have said. Such as...

I feel the tanks are way too powerful. As i said in my other post, i played alot of very small maps last night. One being Hall of Anubis, there were i think 2 tanks 1 other car and countless turrets. It was IMPOSSABLE to get any kills. I am a WM. I usualy get about 400-600 points a map and alot more on some others. but on small maps like that when you have everyone but 2 people as engineers i end up with a scrore of around 150. And im a lvl 70. Where as Elite was scoring 1000+ on early waves in a tank.

as far as blocks i dont know how long ago you all have posted on this but again last night i was on a map where i ghosted into a room with 2 titans and i think there were 5 doors where ALL of them were blocked off. and no one new was playing. Needless to say i died.

now im not saying im not grateful for some of the things Engineers do! Like i said im a lvl 70 WM and i just started getting Godlike a couple lvls ago. only thanks to the engineers who heal my shield and sometimes when accecable give refuge on chaos waves. Also the only way i could have reached Godlike is with the Medics on board. Painkiller being one of the most dedicated healers i have encountered, always sacrificing being hit to heal all those around him. Without players like him and those engineers who go around trying to boost players sheilds i would not have survived even wave 6 most of the time.

Now as i read these 5 pages i have seen people refer to WM players as not as helpful as others or being a 'selfish' class. this is not always the case. The last few weeks where i have been playing every night, almost every player in there is an engineer. then there are Blade, THTH, myself and mystic when he changes his char. thats about 4 out of 12 people playing thats not an engineer. You have mentioned WM as being the front line people. that is true. but more then once we have gottin our kills blowin away from a tank all the way across a map. And you have also mentioned that Engineers have low health and such. Since we are front line people we notice when Engineers are being swarmed by red skkarj and warloards and are eager to help. Id like to think that by throwing ourselves in front of those players in need with low health and no Vamp., we are helping. As well as what has already been mentioned with the whole sharing weapons. i appriciate that as i only have LW2 and still spawn with negatives and draining and what not.

This is all about teamwork. And like we have heard co-existing. I only have 1 char. and i love playing as a WM. Again i couldnt be of any help to others without the amazing medics that play on our server and the helpful engineers that take time to boost our sheilds. Or AM maxing our weapons! To start saying that one class is better than the other is ridiculous. Where would the medics be without the others watching there backs as they heal others?! and so on!

ok so i too have gottin off topic! In short, I feel tanks need to go. Blocks need to be limited or have them changed where we can walk through like we have heard. I havent been bothered much with turrets besides haveing like 10 on a map at the same time. I just feel people need to be somewhat respectful for the other players and there class they are choosing to play. If its a small map, dont summon and vehicle! And so on...Its all about having fun people! I love you guys!!

Pyro I don't think you went off topic, Engineers are supposed to complement the other classes and their balance in accordance with others is relevant here.

I definitely agree that WM is not a "selfish" class. They just have the least to contribute that can be put into quantitative form. LA's make the weapons, medics add health, and engineers provide vehicles and shields. WM's certainly do protect the other classes from harm and can also take the damage.

The key is to make sure that one doesn't dominate the others, and although I don't believe the engineers are dominating the others, the scale has certainly been tipped in my opinion.

i agree with you completly Echo.

ECHO wrote:

The key is to make sure that one doesn't dominate the others, and although I don't believe the engineers are dominating the others, the scale has certainly been tipped in my opinion.

Echo, I have to disagree. Engineers are dominating big time now. Let's see, Family Room map, 3 tanks, 3rd wave--top 3 scorers are those engineers in the tanks. I was the lone non-engineer player in the top 5 scorers with 134 points--AFTER 3 WAVES!!!! Normal score for me after 3 waves is 250-300 points

I couldn't get a shot in before the tanker blew my target to pieces. And since the tanks have long range ability, one on each side of the couch along the back wall and the 3rd at the other end of the couch, dominated the entire map.

I'm getting to the point that if I see a tank on a INV/CTF/BR/ETC map, I'm leaving as it is no longer fun to play. If I want to play VINV, I'll vote for a VINV map.

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

ECHO wrote:

The key is to make sure that one doesn't dominate the others, and although I don't believe the engineers are dominating the others, the scale has certainly been tipped in my opinion.

I couldn't get a shot in before the tanker blew my target to pieces. And since the tanks have long range ability, one on each side of the couch along the back wall and the 3rd at the other end of the couch, dominated the entire map.

I'm getting to the point that if I see a tank on a INV/CTF/BR/ETC map, I'm leaving as it is no longer fun to play. If I want to play VINV, I'll vote for a VINV map.

I know exactly what you mean. i was to that point a few times last night. but as i was so close to wave 6 i was excited to see the titans shred the tanks. I play with the sheild gun alot and i was gettting VERY angery where everytime i got close to a guy it was blown up in my face. It was on Hall of Anubis. there is no other place to go. so i just learned to go for guys where they are RIGHT in front of me. I had even asked if we could please play that map with out the tanks when we voted for it. I was ignored and had about 3 tanks in there.

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

If I want to play VINV, I'll vote for a VINV map.

Amen!

Now, let me add that I enjoy my engineer character very much - although lately I've played my WM just so I can get enough points for LW-5 and stop getting negatives and maybe have better weapons to pass out to others.

When I play my engineer, I hardly ever (probably never) summon a vehicle - maybe I did a few at the beginning to try them out, but quickly came to the conclusion that certain vehicles are just out of place in certain maps (i.e. the tank issue). So, I limit myself to turrets, blocks and sentinels - I actually enjoy being a free-roaming engineer that takes care of sentinels, builds fortified areas for other players and some times uses turrets when there is a good spot for one. No vehicles for "Spikeneer"

Note that I have seen Elite Engineer outscore many high-level players with just a turret and sentinels - I attribute that to good aim and savvy playing (good job!)

Edit: with all that said, great job on coding the Engineer class - that took tremendous effort and it is truly appreciated. Remember that one of the hardest aspects of running an MMORPG is the balancing of the classes, so even giants like WoW or DAoC wrestle with this issue constantly. Keep it up because you guys are doing great.

Same Im not much for summon vehicles..well cept on big maps i may summon scorp to flee from oen end of the amp to the other..or in vinv to get to the raptor and jet outta there....and tanks on the larger maps...but I like roaming engineer more ..very good..escpailly if you can berserk with another engineer link you or vice versa..its very very effective...

And as Ive said b4..in my opinion Elite is just one of those rlly good players who can outscore at times without any turrets at all....(very good shot..)

However...vehicles are still helpfull as i said for larger maps...fleeing..takin out baddies in style w/e..they help...actualyl...Vehicles in CTF mapsarnt generally to horrble..(more so even for vctf maps..) as they tend to be larger than the DM /DOM maps....hum...
jsut a q ..do ppl have quams with vctf maps as they do VINV...(personally they are just larger maps ..very nice...)

ps..so my vote is that tanks on maps ..unless as large as ..lets say ...grassyknoll or more...are too much..)

Spike wrote:

Note that I have seen Elite Engineer outscore many high-level players with just a turret and sentinels - I attribute that to good aim and savvy playing (good job!)

He does it with the Goliath, I can still outscore him and Blade X when they use the turrets and sentinels

first and foremost I'd like to say I do really like the engineer class.

but as I was on with Pyro the other night and for the first time in the 5 months or so I've played in this server I was 'P'd off there was no room to move,find a kill,and no communication. Several of the maps we played which are normally extremely tough to beat we blasted through easily

its ridiculous especially now that some of them are getting up there in levels(two tanks in a small map is just....beyond me its terrible for other players)

while many do create 'hidey holes' where maps have none for everyone to fall back to and shield boost (seems to me most of these players are players who have other high lvl characters) many are just planting themselves in a open area and and boosting their sents (Elite has been outscoring everyone he's been on with lately usually by a lot)

I think we are seeing too many of them on at one time
1 or 2 (higher level 3 or 4 lower level) at a time seem to be manageable
but when out of 10 players 5-6 of them are engineers the 'culture' of the server changes and thats what I enjoy about this server the most is the teamwork.
the engineer class is becoming the new LW and do we want that ?

just my 2cents

now you know what im talkin about road. Its ridiculious.

I was on last night and this was still going on. I noticed that it had caused the few of us that arent engineers to try and beat eachother to the kill. it was getting bloody and more then a few of us were getting extreamly frusterated. There were engineers on each end with all there tanks and such. it forced us to the only space there was where there wernt tanks or cars and such. the middle. it just turned into a frezy of gettingto the kill before someone else. I didnt like trying to beat one of my fellow players. I dont like what the situation its putting us in is all...