Who thinks Engineers are balanced as-is?

What does a medic spawn with?...what does medic hand out? the only advantage teamwork wise the medic has is the abillity to have adren drip to toss AM's adren packs which i do form time to time..but the engineers with lvlv 3 shield healin have helped me..givin me shield just long enough to get healin blast out of me...

cus 75 adren + 30 health + incomign walrods..there nothgin i can doo...but hope my balst ameks it...the extra boost of 150 sheidls can save the lfie..thou not AS usefulll it still is..

Also the link is team work wep..healin vehicles and sents and turrents of engineers ...being able to boost and be boosted to take out the baddies..

And as medic or engineer I will toss my felwlow players piercing weps and even vorps if i know team wise its not goona do me any good..

I cna say even when im non engineer...When those vamps start bearing down on me ..and i have no where to turn..i run to nearrest sent....those things save my life..that ..and rods...

ps new page..^-^

Medics are 10X more valuable then an Engineer--IMO.

Bottom line, again--my opinion- Engineer class takes no "skill". If you don't need to move/dodge/trans to fight and stay alive---come on!! All they do is CAMP.

There was once a discussion on these forums to discourage "camping" by adding mods to influence players to not hide. and to keep moving. Now, camping is promoted with the Engineer Class.

ACTUALLLY....I learnt how to dodge via the engineer class...cus withotu regen, health or much damge red to back me up one hit could be the beginning of my end.....with the increase of link turrets to lvl 15 laoded...so I think..If your like Blade or some other few engineers it does take some amount of skill to doddge like crazy....

Ps and i used my sents as my immoblie back up...cept for sakrj and warlord waves..then i just link up someone

{AW}Violator
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Joined: 05/09/2007 21:20:25
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Medics are 10X more valuable then an Engineer--IMO.

Bottom line, again--my opinion- Engineer class takes no "skill". If you don't need to move/dodge/trans to fight and stay alive---come on!! All they do is CAMP.

There was once a discussion on these forums to discourage "camping" by adding mods to influence players to not hide. and to keep moving. Now, camping is promoted with the Engineer Class.

I have played all of the classes past level 40 now, the class that takes the least "skill" to play is the weapon master.

Weapon masters get vamp, Vamp means that most of the time (notice i said most) you are not running for your life, you can hunt down the monsters, stay in the fight and keep hurting them. This (as far as I am concerned) is one of the most powerful ability's in the game.

As far as camping goes, its part of the class, you have to literally pitch a tent. It is the way the class was built to be played. The anti-camping mods still apply to them, you cannot take up residence too close to some power ups or where monsters cant get to you.

I agree with you, Medics are 10X more useful than an Engineer, or a Weapon Master.

One other thing.

Why do the weapons that are mounted or emplace, or I should ask, why do we only have the ones that seem to do less damage than weapons that you can run around with?

{AW}Violator wrote:

There was once a discussion on these forums to discourage "camping" by adding mods to influence players to not hide. and to keep moving. Now, camping is promoted with the Engineer Class.

To clarify the rules of the server, "camping" refers to camping on the super weapons, not just standing in one place. Being in a place where monsters cannot get you is considered cheating, and so the anti-camper will take care of those individuals as well. Idling is also not allowed, so you need to move at least somewhat to demonstrate that you are not idling. However, there is no rule against staying in one general area.

If that were the case some small fall off maps would enforce camping cus well...YOU FALL..lol....but yeah grizzle couldnt say ti better myself..

..When it all boils down to it ..its gotta be a mix..

Agreed--WM is the simplist and easist class to play. But, Weapons Master is the epitome of what UT stands for---a 1st person shooter. It is inherently the more selfish class. The other classes augment this class and do so very well.

The Adren Master and the Medics are very difficult to play. That is why I respect and appreciate players who utilize these classes. They are selfless classes aimed at helping others.

Seriously, it doesn't take any skill to sit in a turret with lightning sentinels all around you. I don't see any turrets, tanks or lightning sentinels dodging. Also, how much dodging do you do when you have barracaded yourself at a dead end hallway?

The dead in hall ways i used to retreat too and recoop from the field..also the can help the medics out cus the creat safe zone for healing...wehre the medic doesnt have to keep looking up and covering his/her back...and Also engineers are bets on VINV wiht that vehicle regen it helps alot...I was alst player in more than once..(I died once...stupid landing raptor on titans head...didn't pull up in time...)

Personally, I find the medic easiest to play, especially for new players. Get a flak or RL, convert to medic weapon and keep your finger on the fire button for half an hour. Occassionally fire a medic blast.

I think we have four classes that suit four different temperments (big generalisations here).

WMs for those that want to be in the thick of it, doing lots of dodging. Up close and personal. Kill or be killed. Requires lots of traditional first person shooter skills.

AMs for the control freaks who want to decide what weapons they have, and how they are going to use them. How much adrenaline they are spending maxing, how much tripling, how much rod and how much booster/berserk. For the thinkers or tacticians, or the snipers. Constant decision making.

Medics for those that like helping others, and who perhaps do not really like being dependent on others. Can survive in battle but can get xp just as easily in the background with less risk. Get lots of people thanking you, which always feels good

Engineers - for those that don't want to do lots of dodging but just want to hide and take out the enemy when they approach.

We all have different playing styles and different preferences. One class isn't supposed to be better than the others - they are supposed to co-exist.
Choose which style suits your mood most. Play it. Enjoy it. And let others do the same.

Well said!

*stars singing bob marley-one love..*

*stops cus he cant rlly sing...*

Szlat-

I may have gone off topic and I apologize for that. This thread was started so we could discuss the Engineer Class and whether it is balanced. My initial response was basically---No. I feel it is too powerfull at low levels.

The debate, I think, is not what class is better or worse etc, but wether or not the different classes work well with other classes and compliment eachother. The main goal is of course to survive 16 waves and kill all the monsters, working together to achieve this goal. After playing for a year now it is very rare not to see a WM or LA character leading the scoring for a map, there are of course exceptions. Lately whenever I join into a map the engineers are at the top of the list using link turrets and Goliaths.

I dont know about everyone else but I take a certain amount of pride in being a WM and doing most of the killing( The reason I originally selected WM in the first place). When you kill very well and stay alive only to see yourself trailing engineers who are sitting there and shooting overpowered turrets etc. it is very discouraging.

I just dont see how engineers compliment the other classes.
IMO the only way this will work is if everyone becomes an engineer and we all know thats not going to happen.

Yes violater I also have gone off topic

>-

Micron(Micron) wrote:

I dont know about everyone else but I take a certain amount of pride in being a WM and doing most of the killing( The reason I originally selected WM in the first place). When you kill very well and stay alive only to see yourself trailing engineers who are sitting there and shooting overpowered turrets etc. it is very discouraging.

Amen brother. Again, as mentioned in other posts, I really don't have any major problems with the engineer class, but the WM/AM classes are the epitome of the first person gaming experience. I truly appreciate the engineer's ability to "heal" shields and build fortifications (when they're not blocking me). I still feel thet purpose of the engineer class is that of support for the WM/AM classes, just like the medic/monster class. Too me, the ability to sit in one spot, commanding a clear and open field of fire at both long range and close range, is not getting involved in the game whatsoever, but making the other players dance to that engineer's tune or being forced to get to an area that is not covered by the turrent or tank.

So, two issues. Is it balanced and do the classes compliment each other.

To deal with the first one, the general consensus so far is that Engineers are currently too powerful at low levels. This needs dealing with. We just need to decide how. Either completely removing the link turret and goliath, or just defering them until the Engineer is much higher level is one of the possibilities being discussed. So, lets finalise that discussion and implement it.

The second question dealing with how the classes compliment each other is a much broader one. It is off the scope of this topic, but to follow Violator and Micron....

The only class that really helps other people are medics. They heal people.

WMs and AMs do not help other people kill monsters. The only real way they help other people survive is by killing the monsters (and hence hogging the points). Every one shares weapons like piercing and energy. But it is not often really good weapons (e.g. vampire or vorpal, or redeemers) are given away by WMs or AMs (generalising here. High levels are normally going for high scores, and so tend to keep the best weapons. And why not?). And once the AM max+1s it, he cannot give it away.

So WMs do not really help others at all. AMs help a bit more by maxing the piercing +3 into a +6 before sharing. Remote Max can also be extremely helpful, but I don't know of it being used much. Likewise the spheres - potentially helpful, but not used very much.

So, Engineers. Sitting in a turret they do not help at all - except by killing the monsters first. Building fortifications and doing shield healing is of benefit. That extra 150 of shield can help others survive even a titan rock. I also find the Lightning Sentinel helps - it attracts monster fire allowing everyone (including AMs and WMs) to kill the monster with a higher degree of safety. Especially useful against gnats. The defensive sentinel, if it comes into being, will also help protect anyone nearby.

So, in my books, the order of helpfulness to other classes is medics, roaming engineers, AMs, turret engineers, WMs.

But that is not to say WM is a bad class - I think it is a very good one, and a critical one for certain play styles. We need up front fighters. But would an army today go to war without tanks or artillery? They are all part of a balanced army.

Sorry another long post.

No, you have summarized the discussion quite well, even tho I feel that you're a little off-base concerning the helpfulness of the WM.

My feelings at this point is:

1. No tanks or other vehicles allowed, period, on INV maps. We have VINV if we want to play/drive/fly vehicles. For large INV maps, such as Grassy Knoll or Mourning, they could be converted to play either VINV or INV depending on player vote.

2. As to turrents, tie the health/armor to the level of the player at the beginning. For a player to increase the health/armor, they would have to purchase more of each at particular levels, i.e. 20/40/60/on so on (Similar to the damage reductions for a WM).

So, a turrent engineer level 100 would have the same kill ability as a WM/AM at the same level. This gives the community 3 different battle classes and a medic class.