Who thinks Engineers are balanced as-is?

I'd like to second ZOG's concern for Goliaths (tanks).

It is my opinion that the tank is so powerful it should be either restricted to extremely high level players, or removed completely. (Obviously, this is a server decision, and not part of the class itself).

I was easily outscored the other day by a midlevel Engineer with a tank.

I do not believe that tanks should be restricted to high level players, they should be taken out altogether (or at least limited to VINV). If goliaths are overpowered now, they will still be overpowered at level 150 when engineers will have even more abilities to help them survive. I have not been on a small map with more than one tank yet, but I am sure they would devastate everything in sight. I usually come out on top of elite engine with my level 100 AM, but they are almost always neck n' neck with me up until the last couple waves.

At lvl 61 Fro_gineer scored ~1700, and that was when he didn't have a class...

And so fro sinks your theory ..some pppl are great player and the class helps a lil..

And tanks arent that powerfull sure they are strong..But as Slazt has said it all depends upon the amor Vamp for survivability..cus one titan/queen can take them out easy

Lately I have noticed that certain Engineers are flaunting the Goliaths in early waves, flattening everything that moves from a stationary position and repeatedly finishing off kills. The amount of points that can be stacked up doing this is amazing, and I have found myself trailing engineers well into the high waves. Combine that with the devastating power of the link turrets and it basically makes engineers capable of easily outscoring high level WMs. Forgive me if Im wrong but does this not defeat the purpose of the engineers to begin with??

Oh yeah, do you have any idea how hard it is to head shot Nalis when they are dancing because of the lighting sents???

Do you know how hard it it is to headhsot nallis ..with a WM and vorp shock......or...kill a titan...

...or anything!?!.....ahem yes..the point is ..you still do pretty good..yeah engineers can be toned down

Basically what I am saying is it seems awfully strange for 200+ level WMs to be trailing 50-75 level engineers, considering the WM is designed to do most of the "front line" fighting.

Two things that need some attention

1. Goliath
2. Link turret damage

IMO of course

As SzlatEng, lvl 49 Engineer with LE9 (no goliaths or link turret, and definitiely not a skilled player by any means), I find my scores are typically around 700-800. My maximum score with this character has been 1057. Using a mini or ball turret does not seem to give me any significant advantage over using normal weapons. Kill ratio for me is normally about one third for the sentinel and two thirds to normal weapons (including the Engineer link gun as a normal weapon).

So it is when Engineers get the goliath and link turret, they become too powerful.

We could just remove the link turret and the goliath.

Engineers seem to be placing those at the busiest parts of the map, where they can get the most kills. They are not going for a location that is good for survival - because they do not need too because the link turret/goliath are too strong.

The initial thinking behind the Engineer was in terms of building fortifications, and working as a team. At the moment, lvl 60 Engineers are acting as loners, because they are strong enough to survive by themselves. So, yeah, probably too powerful.

However:

If we remove the link turret and goliath, Engineers will be forced more into team efforts. This will mean more fortifications. While this is a good thing, it will mean more blocks. If you want to keep blocks to a minimum, vote for keeping the link turret and goliath. The advantage of the fortifications is that everyone can hide there, not just the Engineer

Engineers in Link Turrets/Goliaths tend to stop in it until it needs healing, quickly heal it and leap back in again. The tendency is not to heal other people's shields. Putting Engineers on foot more (as removing these two will) will increase the shield healing that they can do.

Will high level Engineers be strong enough?

An alternative would be to reduce the initial maximum health of spawned items, and improve the power of ConstructionHealthBonus.

At the moment, goliaths spawn and can be healed up to 800 health. Maxing ConstructionHealthBonus (110 points) will increase this by 50% to 1200 max health.

How about spawning goliaths with 100 max health, and letting each level of ConstructionHealthBonus increase by 100, giving a maximum of 1100 health.

This means that rather than just maxing LoadedEngineer initially, Engineers will have to buy ConstructionHealthBonus for the items to have any survivability.

For the current Goliath with 800 health, they will have needed to buy 7 levels of ConstructionHealBonus. We could increase the costs of LoadedEngineer and ConstructionHealthBonus to limit Link Turrets and Goliaths effectively to level 100+ players.

Or change the current restriction for LoadedEngineer of the player having 4* the level he wishes to purchase to be 8 times. So you would need to be level 120 to buy LE 15.

Just a thought.

wow Szlat I hope this isnt keeping you up at night

FogRaider(_MM) wrote:

..... The main difference IMO is that an engineer has more of an abilty to stand and fight, and also a faster recuperation time after the fight.....

Agreed. Considering your examples of a lvl 60 Eng and a lvl 60 WM, at the start of the wave the Eng will be in a goliath with 800 health, the WM will have say 400 health (assuming 150 health bonus and a medic).

The Engineer will have the most fire power, so on lots of waves will be able to take out monsters before they get close enough to do any serious damage. But assume the Engineer takes damage at three times the rate of the WM, because he cannot dodge.

At this point the Goliath and the WM have 200 health. The WM has to go looking for health or a medic. This could take the rest of the wave. The Engineer just gets out, heals the tank and gets back in - taking around 5 seconds. In a way, it is almost like the WM with an always-available medic blast.

Worst case for the engineer is the goliath gets destroyed, but by now his timer should have expired so he can spawn another one. Again, instant 800 health.

So, what's the solution?
Not sure really. Removing the strongest two items (goliath and link turret) reduces the damage that the engineer can take before having to repair, and also the reduced firepower means less monsters get taken out before they shoot.
Apart from that we could lower the max health of lots of items.

What do others think?

Micron(Micron) wrote:

wow Szlat I hope this isnt keeping you up at night

LOL. Of course it is.

well i survied botu the lats 4 waves behind eleite engineer heain him...occasioanly healin blast the other players (darn groceries.) and i last till games end in that eningeers part as a medic ...but a medic with link gun..which i now adays try to use as long as i can so that i can heal them fast adn they can heal m...and we can help each other take out the baddies..which me and blade did once on the map masuro..( spelling?.)....

however seeing im not as much adva. dam red as players like caz i still need to whip out my medic rocket or flak near games end end usually...im gettin dsitracted...

Point being it also depends on the player..some players whiel sitll well ebing able to survivve on their loansome can still team up to increase their already increased chances

Also one has to bear in my that engineers should have some means of still lvign and score ok..when they are all alone or with a bunch of low lvl players..cus even thou the DC sever is team play..let face it...due to timezones and that thing we call sleep and work..ppl arnt always on at the same time..And if my Medic Can score a Good 1k+ with few/low players one..so should an equiv enignener..(in theory and my opinion..)

ps szlat..what ytou do ot get to sheep is count sentenals..-- I mean SHEEP! sheep.....sheeepzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

IMO:

1. Weapons Masters are the front line fighters, the "bread and butter" of UT. (I often had out weapons---my meager contribution to all other classes.)
2. Medics heal and summon monsters.
3. Adren Masters improve weapons and utilize some long range attacks.

As a high level Weapons Master (250 adren), I do not need shield repair from an engineer. So basically, the engineer class does not improve or help game play for my character. The Medics and Adren Masters are constantly helping my character with healing blasts and weapon upgrades. There are countless times that these two character classes have dramatically HELPED increase survivablility.

One example: We had four players on a map with the lowest level player at level 155+. We had no piercing weps, but the level 155+ players was an Adren Master who was able to generate a Piercing Flak +6. That weapon alone saved our skins and gave a fighting chance. That is teamwork.

Honest question: What weapons do engineers spawn with? What weapons can they use? If memory serves me right, I have never seen an engineer handing out weapons like the Weapon Masters and Adren Masters can.