Difficulty of new monsters

BotFodder wrote:

Is that per single shot, or per double - as they tend to fire two globs at a time.

Each shot.

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:

is that 8 to 12 % of current health or max health?

Current health.
Actually, checking a bit deeper, the 8%-12% increases as the gnat grows. A full size gnat with 200 health will be doing 5 times that, so 40%-60%

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:

Does this mean that 4 vampire gnats could kill a level 70 character in a single second...Is this right?

Not sure how the level 70 player fits in.

For an example, assume the player has 400 health, and the gnats are all full size (200 health) with 1 kill each.
The first gnat will take around (50+1%) of the 400 health = 204 health. This is checked to see it is the range 25-175, which caps it down to 175. So now the player has 225 health. The other three gnats will take less than 204, as the players current health is less. 115+56+28 leaving the player with 26 health.
I am not sure how often they attack - I think about every 1.5 seconds. But certainly I cannot remember them attacking twice in the same second.
So, in simple terms, they will not quite kill him.

However, if the player is the only player left alive, the gnats will get around +62% bonus due to their increased DB/DR, which gets applied after the 25-175 cap.
So in this case they would take the player out.

But this is worst case. 4 gnats of minimum size would not get close.

However, keep in mind 3 lava skaarj would take the player out. And it only ever takes one titan.

FogRaider(_MM) wrote:

Meh. Maybe it's just my playstyle on my AM, and not the class, which made it easy. I don't usually use MWM except for maybe one or two favorite weapons, and also for changing negative weapons. So i usually have enough adren to crack off a few bolts.

Ok, was going to ask what level you were, but I can see you are a level 29 AM. You are still low enough to not have to worry about things like the DR/DB involved with the monsters while you are alive, as you tend to be a limiter on the monster levels. With my levels though, even as one of the top level AMs on the server, I do not have that luxury. Like you, I generally use the MWM on only 2 or 3 weapons, trying for a combination of piercing and energy on the flak and RL (e.g. energy flak and piercing RL, or piercing flak and energy RL), and a good shock (piercing or vorp). And I get rid of my negatives, so that I can max for players if they request it (and besides, I do not want to be using a sniper of harm going after nali headshots). Depending on things such as medics, I might even stop with a vamp or healing weapon. But as you gain levels, you will find that having a piercing and/or energy weapon, as between those two, you can manage to keep the adren going for running the other artifacts, even if you stack them. Without them, you will soon find yourself with no adren. And as I said earlier, it can often be wave 10 or later before I end up with a decent (energy/piercing) weapon.

BTW, given changes over the past 3-6 months, I have noticed I am more often I am getting to be like Grizzled... unless I know someone is on who likes say a freezing weapon and I think about it, outside of titan waves, I am going through adren into the MWM as fast as I can to make a good flak and shock. This can sometimes be up to 2 or 3 times per wave. The main exceptions will be energy or piercing weapons. (Folks, this means that if I ask if anyone wants a particular weapon, speak up quickly...as you can bet I will be either firing off the MWM or capping it as soon as I can).

And why flak, shock, and RL? Flak is good mid/near range, and can either be a wide field weapon (great against multiple skarrj) or a focused weapon (flak grenades against titans

), the shock works great as a instant hit distance weapon, and I can combo it to kill around corners just as well as I can with a flak. All the more important with monsters like the lava skarrj or vamp razor flies. And the RL is sort of a hit heavy, do splash type of weapon which works mid-range but can also be used for halfway short or long range as well. And also, the flak and shock allow me to work towards bingo as well.

Ok, away from the gnats and everything red....

Deemer Bunnies... I dont think they need to be that big. 2X of the normal bunny, or at least no bigger than the nali cows should be fine.

And what is the charge time for the explosion? Is it too long as it really isnt a challange to escape it. Worst part is for someone who wasnt in the room at the time of death and walks into it.

Flak Monkey wrote:

And what is the charge time for the explosion? Is it too long as it really isnt a challange to escape it.

I to some extent disagree. The problem I've been having is coming across a situation where someone else has killed the bugger and the explosion goes off as I'm running by/rounding a corner.

Like you, I generally use the MWM on only 2 or 3 weapons, trying for a combination of piercing and energy on the flak and RL (e.g. energy flak and piercing RL, or piercing flak and energy RL), and a good shock (piercing or vorp).

I should have been clearer. I am extremely tolerant of what weapons i get. Sturdy mini 4? Ok, sure. Poison shock 2? Fine by me. Piercing 4 link? Sweet, i got a good one. Etc.
But I will keep that stuff in mind as I level.

On a more on-topic note, has anyone suggested waiting to put red gnats in until after wave 6? IMO they come in a bit too early, assuming that they are harder than titans.

EDIT: Doh! Changed it.

BotFodder wrote:

I to some extent disagree. The problem I've been having is coming across a situation where someone else has killed the bugger and the explosion goes off as I'm running by/rounding a corner.

Yeah, me too. I think the size is a good challenge, especially in small hallways where one bunny can block the entire passage.

FogRaider(_MM) wrote:

Rage 7 link? Sweet, i got a good one.

(Just FYI, every weapon has a chance for rage except the link, mini, and supers.

)

I could go either way with red gnats after wave 6. My tactics against them have improved so they aren't as threatening as before (but still nothing to shake a stick at), however moving them from a lower wave into a higher wave might be a little too overwhelming. One wave everything is easygoing then WHOA GNATS/WARLORDS/QUEENS/OH MY

The thing I hate about the gnats mostly is that one new player (say, under level 30) can basically let one of them get huge and then be a big problem for everyone. When they're small, and it's just me and one gnat, I can take it out before it gets any large amount of health. But once it gets big it's almost impossible to take out without the lightning rod/bolt/maybe beam, or of course a superweapon.

Move 'em to wave 6+? Might not be a bad idea, but they still haven't been a big issue before wave 6 very often. As long as you take them out when they're small...

As for the deemer bunnies... the large size is rather comical, I find. Especially since one shot of anything seems to take them out. My only complaint is that there's too many on whichever wave there is, so you hear a ton of explosions going off or are less lucky and get caught in one or two of 'em. The wait time is kinda long, I have to agree.

The new monsters (most notably: gnat mobs, tough warlords, freezing/invisi-kralls, ghost & lava skaarj, and if we get there, the superqueens) definitely change the gameplay a LOT. My medic can't just healing blast his way through most everything anymore. My junkie can't globe through the demon waves (12 & 16) without a lot of difficulty and running away anymore. Null and freezing are far more desirable than they used to be. Adrenaline for making weapons is more scarce, unless I get an energy early on. The beam isn't so much of a kill-all as it used to be. There's too much variety on most of the waves to really be able to classify them as one thing or another and use one simple strategy (ie: triple, globe, rod, bolt, make weapons, etc.) on any of them.

Also, there seem to be a lot more monsters spawning on the titan waves and the demon waves (12 & 16). Is this intentional? On Hallofanubis, there must have been 20 warlords at once on wave 12, with somewhere around 7-8 players. Maybe it's just my imagination.

kyraeu wrote:

Also, there seem to be a lot more monsters spawning on the titan waves and the demon waves (12 & 16). Is this intentional? On Hallofanubis, there must have been 20 warlords at once on wave 12, with somewhere around 7-8 players. Maybe it's just my imagination.

Well, the team score has definitely been higher since the new monsters have been added. I've seen the old team high score record passed several times already. The old record was 8101 and that was on a VINV map, and since the new monsters were added I have 2 screenshots of games well over 9000. So, I would say that their are more bigger monsters.

As for the bunnies, maybe we could make them blow up right after you shoot them. Then they would be like land mines.

kyraeu wrote:

The thing I hate about the gnats mostly is that one new player (say, under level 30) can basically let one of them get huge and then be a big problem for everyone. When they're small, and it's just me and one gnat, I can take it out before it gets any large amount of health. But once it gets big it's almost impossible to take out without the lightning rod/bolt/maybe beam, or of course a superweapon.

I'm sorry mate, but these things rarely fly alone, and when there are two of them, or im low on health i have to run if i want to live.. They are just so hard to hit and absolutely drain your health so fast.

The problem is they move too quickly, one moment they are ontop of you, the next they are 20 meters away, then instantly back again.

Actually, you would probably be an exception to the bad generalization that I made.

I was more talking about the players that are generally unaware of what's happening, such as the ones who are very confused when someone's healing them. Or the ones that don't notice that their health is going down and a huge fly is on their tail.

I hope I'm not just digging myself a big hole here. I didn't intend any offense to people by making that comment.

Tasuric wrote:

The problem is they move too quickly, one moment they are ontop of you, the next they are 20 meters away, then instantly back again.

METER, what's that?

No, really, those things are nasty and add to the play a fun nervousness.

FodderFigure wrote:

Tasuric wrote:

The problem is they move too quickly, one moment they are ontop of you, the next they are 20 meters away, then instantly back again.

METER, what's that?

No, really, those things are nasty and add to the play a fun nervousness.

It's only fun since your 10x more levels then us

At lower levels, more then one is more or less insta-death. Without quickfoot you can't outrun them unless you already have a trans set somewhere. And then added to how hard they are to it... It's fun, but a little too hard.

With the red gnats, one thing I noticed is they love feasting around Medics. The pets are a nice source of health since pets generally can't hit them. Also, medics that try to heal themselves back to max health while they're being attacked makes the swarm increase in size really fast. So, my advise to medics, don't heal yourself while your being attacked. They'll just take more and grow more. Unless your sick like my and like to try and make the biggest swarm you can and just before you die, throw a deemer at your feet.

supertoast wrote:

At lower levels, more then one is more or less insta-death. Without quickfoot you can't outrun them unless you already have a trans set somewhere. And then added to how hard they are to it... It's fun, but a little too hard.

I say keep the gnats as they are, that'll teach Toast to not play his pseudo-engineer! (bwahaha! jk!)