Beam/Bolt balance

Hmm I like this idea....

I wonder how hard it would be too code if, for instance, you had too shoot a regular weapon 5 times(for example) before either of these artifacts could be used......

Micron(Micron) wrote:
THE PROBLEM IS BEING ABLE TO USE THE TRIPLE WITH THESE ARTIFACTS.....Simply stop the abililty to use the triple with rod/bolt/beam and this will fix the problem.

szlat wrote:

The list will grow and grow.
First loads of weapons got their damage reduced because they were too powerful with the triple. Then the flak+5 was nerfed to +4. Then you could no longer run the double magic modifier with the triple. Then no rage weapons or vorpal weapons. Then no piercing weapons. Now no rod, beam or bolt. So many hacks in the code just to try and get round the fact the triple itself is the problem. Get rid of the triple, then you can balance every thing else a lot better. But no, everyone secretly likes being overpowered.

I disagree that this combo falls into these same categories. I doubt very much that a score of 5000 was possible with any of these other examples.
I believe that a score of 5000 is possible using the trip +bolt/beam.

nice suggestions Lt.
and for the record I LOVE the triple (and don't think its overpowered) but when used in conjunctions with other artifacts it becomes too powerful

I'm not a complex AM player (still fairly low lvl )I know some have macros built in to activate/change artifacts, but what about a switch that deactivates other artifacts as soon as a new one is activated...not sure how the Ams will like that though
and I really like the cool-down period idea

then again maybe the triple is the root of all these problems

maybe a double would be better, but you still will have the issue with bolt/beam

Szlat wrote:

However, if the monsters are smaller, it gets slightly worse. The 1000 damage will take out 6 skaarj at 150 each, returning about 80 adrenaline. So the AM can now do another 320+100 left over damage, so another 2 skaarj die, and the adrenaline from those kills will be just enough to take out 1 more skaarj - so a total of 9 skaarj.

I dont know if you added this into your adren calculations, but I believe killing 9 skaarj in quick succession should get you up to an ultra kill, yielding an additional 40 adren from double through ultra kills.

I like Lt. Crumpet's ideas.

What if there was a penalty for killing monsters outside of your class.
WM: No penalty
AM: -10% xp for damage done with non magic weapons
MM: -10% xp for damage done with non healing weapons
Engineers: -10% xp for non engineer based attacks (turrets, link gun, sents)
Also non-engineers get a xp penalty for using turrets.

This would be a tough one to code because the xp stuff is in the base of the mysteral rpg mod. Maybe it might be a good idea for UT3 RPG?

Also, on a older server I used to play AM alot. I used to max a piercing wep, max+1 it, then double it to get P+14. switch to a different wep turn off double at just the right time...go back to the P wep and it will still be doubled. After awhile I figured out i wasn't getting the added damage, but it was still fun to brag about to the other players. (I wouldn't bother trying it on DC. The server I did it on had a 1000 adren stat cap.)

Lt.Crumpet wrote:

I dont know if you added this into your adren calculations, but I believe killing 9 skaarj in quick succession should get you up to an ultra kill, yielding an additional 40 adren from double through ultra kills.

You are right, I didn't add any bonuses in. I wanted to keep it relatively simple. I am not sure if 9 skaarj kills will get you to ultra kill or just Megakill, and it depends on if the player is already in a multi-kill run. But 40 adrenaline would allow the AM to take out another skaarj.

I haven't seen it myself, but it sounds like some people have noticed AMs transing round the map firing off bolt just to see if there is anything there. Beam has got a 10 adrenaline miss penalty. I suggest we add the same to bolt - so if it is fired with nothing in range, then you get a 10 adrenaline loss.

greg11 wrote:

I like Lt. Crumpet's ideas.

What if there was a penalty for killing monsters outside of your class.
WM: No penalty
AM: -10% xp for damage done with non magic weapons
MM: -10% xp for damage done with non healing weapons
Engineers: -10% xp for non engineer based attacks (turrets, link gun, sents)
Also non-engineers get a xp penalty for using turrets.

what about a wm who uses a rod. penalty for that as well

edit: how about a damage penalty of -25% instead of an xp penalty

greg11 wrote:

What if there was a penalty for killing monsters outside of your class.
WM: No penalty
AM: -10% xp for damage done with non magic weapons
MM: -10% xp for damage done with non healing weapons
Engineers: -10% xp for non engineer based attacks (turrets, link gun, sents)
Also non-engineers get a xp penalty for using turrets.

interesting idea, but please put it in its own thread before we continue on that. its not really related to beam/bolt.

I have made the following changes to the RPG - for Druid to include in the next build if he agrees with them.

Lightning Bolt

Too powerful in deathmatch, so in non-invasion games I have limited it to 100 damage (before DB/DR).

No longer works with the double or triple damage. Too powerful

Now lose 10 adrenaline for a miss, similar to the beam, to stop people trans+spamming. Also put a 3 second recharge time on the bolt to stop room clearing.

Damage was too high for an unaimed shot, so the damage is now 3 per adrenaline instead of 4. Was too overpowered, and removing some of the thinking and skill that AMs are supposed to use

Lightning Beam

Too powerful in deathmatch, so in non-invasion games I have limited it to 100 damage (before DB/DR).

No longer works with the double or triple damage. Too powerful

There is now a 3 second recharge time on the beam.

Damage per adrenaline unchanged as it has to be aimed.

Spheres
I have reduced the adrenaline usage of these by 10%, so a healing sphere is now 9 adrenaline per second and a damage or invuln sphere is 18 adrenaline per second.

Blasts

I have slightly increased the damage at the centre of a MegaBlast to 1300 from 1200, so it can take out a Metal Titan

It didn't seem right for the PoisonBlast to cost the same as the MegaBlast, so I have reduced the PoisonBlast to 150

Likewise I have reduced the FreezeBomb to 75 from 100. Not that anyone will use it

The idea is to bring a bit more balance into the artifacts. Remember that AMs started without any of these artifacts, so please no talk about killing the class. And AMs that are currently just cruising around Bolting everything will have to work a bit harder.

Good job Szlat!

many thanks
great adjustments
none too severe
I think the AM class is great but the bolt/beam issue was becoming ridiculous
and the sphere adjustments are cool maybe I'll use it more for my medic now too

Yay now the medics are truly undefeated in deathmatch and any other non-invasion maps, with the bolt and triple out of the way the adrens were the only class that could stop us but now we can take our rightful place on the throne.

Thanks Szlat much appreciated
oh and ps you can ask micron

If I may point out Elite this is primarily an Invasion server

most people dislike playing DM/CTF/ONS on a RPG server as the level differentials make teams unbalanced, and extremely frustrating to lower level (and raw skill , points at self) players , thus other game types are rarely played. unless you sneek one in on us

Awww

, I really didn't do much with a triple bolt/beam but I did make use of double bolt/beam when I could.

Couple of questions those for the bolt/beam damage limits. So now that both are capped at 100 damage (in non-invasion), when you use them will the bolt only cost 33 Adrenaline Max (100/3) per cast and beam 17 Adrenline Max (100/6).

Also just imo, since the beam has to be aimed, i think I could do with a slightly higher damage cap then bolt like 125 or 150.

Like the Sphere changes and I guess the blasts are ok (even though their hardly ever used.

Dracos wrote:

So now that both are capped at 100 damage (in non-invasion), when you use them will the bolt only cost 33 Adrenaline Max (100/3) per cast and beam 17 Adrenline Max (100/6).

Correct. If only 90 damage was done due to DB/DR, then the cost would be 30 or 15.

Dracos wrote:

Also just imo, since the beam has to be aimed, i think I could do with a slightly higher damage cap then bolt like 125 or 150.

A good player being targetted should be able to dodge well enough to make it difficult to be hit - so I understand the reasoning. But you still have snipers that could hit from afar with the Beam, when the player wouldn't know he was being targetted. So I am not sure. 150 would mean a sniper with beam and a lightning gun would nearly wipe out a high level player (300 health) instantly. So I think try at 100 first.

I disagree.

Szlat wrote:

I have made the following changes to the RPG - for Druid to include in the next build if he agrees with them.

Lightning Bolt

Too powerful in deathmatch, so in non-invasion games I have limited it to 100 damage (before DB/DR).

No longer works with the double or triple damage. Too powerful

Now lose 10 adrenaline for a miss, similar to the beam, to stop people trans+spamming. Also put a 3 second recharge time on the bolt to stop room clearing.

Damage was too high for an unaimed shot, so the damage is now 3 per adrenaline instead of 4. Was too overpowered, and removing some of the thinking and skill that AMs are supposed to use

Lightning Beam

Too powerful in deathmatch, so in non-invasion games I have limited it to 100 damage (before DB/DR).

No longer works with the double or triple damage. Too powerful

There is now a 3 second recharge time on the beam.

Damage per adrenaline unchanged as it has to be aimed.

Spheres
I have reduced the adrenaline usage of these by 10%, so a healing sphere is now 9 adrenaline per second and a damage or invuln sphere is 18 adrenaline per second.

Blasts

I have slightly increased the damage at the centre of a MegaBlast to 1300 from 1200, so it can take out a Metal Titan

It didn't seem right for the PoisonBlast to cost the same as the MegaBlast, so I have reduced the PoisonBlast to 150

Likewise I have reduced the FreezeBomb to 75 from 100. Not that anyone will use it

The idea is to bring a bit more balance into the artifacts. Remember that AMs started without any of these artifacts, so please no talk about killing the class. And AMs that are currently just cruising around Bolting everything will have to work a bit harder.