Balancing issues due to different player levels

Szlat wrote:

Agreed, it is difficult to know player's levels, and once you know, it is difficult to know what to do to help.

There are probably a number of ways to help, and it is probably worth a thread on its own. I suppose it is a question of focus. Are you seeking to get a high score yourself, with as much xp as possible, or are you focused on helping others survive, even at your own expense? I suspect most players are looking after their own score first, then wondering why the low levels are dead.

The first thing that comes to mind as far as helping is killing everything that moves. If a nearby lower level player is struggling with a monster, helping them kill it is a good thing. Now, is it 'kill stealing' if you happen to get in the fatal shot? I say not at all. I don't have awareness for the same reason Flak mentioned. Having awareness would be the only way to know when to let the lower level player get the kill shot.

In regards to the whole focus issue....

I definitely try to help players (low level or otherwise) who are obviously struggling with a monster(s). That doesn't mean I'm always able to abandon whatever monster I'm engaged with to help them out. I won't be much good to the other player if I'm dead. I believe, as you said, that the current setup is geared toward helping lower levels survive. Everyone has a much better chance of survival if a low level player is still standing based on the monsters' levels. I don't know if it's fair to say that most higher level players are looking out for their score more than anything else....not that it doesn't happen.

You have some good ideas for ways that higher levels can help out that don't involve killing monsters. The game is just so fast-paced that it can be tough to heal or hand out weapons, etc. all the time.

.. is thier a way to make the higher wave'd creatures more so hunt down the higher lvld people before the lower lvld people?
only in like waves 12+ dunno if it was mentioned,dunno if id be easier to code, or maybe you can give low lvl players a damage shieldthat doesnt dissapate after time,, <shrugs its 4 :am im bored .babble babble

There has been many a time that a monster walks right past me, heading towards a lower level player that happens to be low on health. And it's not just the lower monsters either. I've seen warlords and titans go past me as well.

yeah thats my point ..cant we like make the monsters hunt down high lvld players first... hehe sorry high lvls

I think the code currently just finds the closest enemy it has a clear line of sight to. It then sticks to that target - although some circumstances can cause it to change targets.

I think we could do it, but we would have to subclass each of the monsters to use a modified MonsterController. So, it would be easiest to add to Gnats, Null Warlords, Poison Queens, Lava skaarj etc, rather than the standard monsters like Warlords, Queens and titans. But that may be sufficient.

Szlat wrote:

I think the code currently just finds the closest enemy it has a clear line of sight to. It then sticks to that target - although some circumstances can cause it to change targets.

I think we could do it, but we would have to subclass each of the monsters to use a modified MonsterController. So, it would be easiest to add to Gnats, Null Warlords, Poison Queens, Lava skaarj etc, rather than the standard monsters like Warlords, Queens and titans. But that may be sufficient.

Actually, Szlat, how hard would it be to override a function in the core MonsterController class? Couldn't we just create the proper extension?

If so, we could do this universally in one fell swoop. The FindNewEnemy() function is fairly straightforward.

Creating a new MonsterController with a different FindNewEnemy was what I had in mind.

However, each monster would need ControllerClass setting to the new version of the MonsterController. Without experimenting, I am not sure how we could do this globally. The basic set-up seems to be in monster.uc PostBeginPlay.

And I wasn't sure that we necessarily wanted all monsters changed. That might be too drastic a change. So before we get too involved, does everyone want this change anyway?

Szlat wrote:

However, each monster would need ControllerClass setting to the new version of the MonsterController.

Ooh, you're right. I forget that UnrealScript doesn't fully support shadowing or trapping.

ok i got an idea..but its a big iffy.lol .. bare with me for a second .

what if we reversed lvls... like instead of me being lvl 240 why not
-240. ,id still be baseicly lvl 240..as long as you can keep the points as if played normaly...so when i lvl to -241 ill still get my 7 points...

so wouldnt they naturaly seeing me negative 240' go after me before a lvl negative 200? or whatever lvl lower then mine.
its a cheap way to make monsters go after the people who can defend themselves alittle better without ..a ton of codeing..

im not a coder i wish i was ,id make more sense tomyself lol..but. do yall mind that i post my ideas about things that pertain to these issues even thoe im not a "coder thier..

Unfortunately, Mystic, that would fall in the same category as the above suggestion.

Right now, the monsters, when they need a target, pick the closest enemy to them that's within their line of sight. Then they hunt it down. That's it, nothing special or fancy. If their AI hasn't triggered a target change, they'll continue simply hunting it down.

Changing that or the criteria for when they should change target - in any way - would require the same basic modifications to the code.

^
I don't think they are coded to actually go after the low lvls (at least I hope not!) they just sort of pick a player and go for them until something makes them target something else..

Maybe at a certain lvl add something into the players inventory that gives a % chance that they are targeted more often... I think hard coding the monsters to only target higher lvls would be a bit extreme and would take a lot more work.

If we get to carried away we'll end up killing off all the high lvls.

haven't read the whole thread, but did read the first few.

Consider: scale the costs of things based on the players level difference from the playing average, with a 100lv diff being the max. across that difference, scale say a 25% (number out of a hat) cost difference. 10 lvl difference = 2.5%

if the avg playing level is 140, and i'm 240, then certain bits should cost say 25% more or use adren 25% faster or something. Using booster, rather than moving at 4 adren/sec it goes at 5. or for the lv 40 guy, instead of 4 it goes 3. Globe, instead of 12/sec would run at 16 or 8/sec. you might also set a 'minimum difference' before it starts to kick in. 50 levels between players (lv 60-lv 110) doesn't kill the fun either way but 100 kinda does.

[edit] taking player level into consideration when picking a target, that sounds like a good one.

monsto wrote:

haven't read the whole thread, but did read the first few.

Consider: scale the costs of things based on the players level difference from the playing average, with a 100lv diff being the max. across that difference, scale say a 25% (number out of a hat) cost difference. 10 lvl difference = 2.5%

if the avg playing level is 140, and i'm 240, then certain bits should cost say 25% more or use adren 25% faster or something. Using booster, rather than moving at 4 adren/sec it goes at 5. or for the lv 40 guy, instead of 4 it goes 3. Globe, instead of 12/sec would run at 16 or 8/sec. you might also set a 'minimum difference' before it starts to kick in. 50 levels between players (lv 60-lv 110) doesn't kill the fun either way but 100 kinda does.

[edit] taking player level into consideration when picking a target, that sounds like a good one.

Actually, that would make things backwards compared with every other game, RPG, etc. I know of. You either end up with the same cost for the higher levels as the lower levels, or you figure that you know how to use things more efficiently, and so you use less energy/adren/magic points for the same thing. Most opt for the same, since they were based off of board games, and there was no way to easily sit there and say "I am level X, and so now it cost me Y% less".

I think that the easiest solution to work out would to institute a "minor league". Essentially a server that shared RPG data with the main server, configured for play of characters under a particular level.

If you are going to do that you might as well have another server and call it the super league, players of insane skill (those that complain that they are not being challenged) and level will get what they need for play.

would it be possible? probably more possible than it is for me to survive right now.

Would it be pssible to calculate damage like this?:

FinalDamage=BaseDamage x ((Shooter's DB + 200)/(Shootee's DR +200))

That would make DR scale on a curve.

That way, if you have 200 DB, and your target has none, you do double damage, same as before.

If neither you nor your target has DB or DR, or both have the same amount, it does base damage, same as before.

BUT, if you have no DB and your target has 200 DR, instead of doing 1 per shot, you would do half damage.

Monsters would be easier to kill in this system though, so that would need to be counterbalanced by something like monsters get more levels per wave, or 35% of the lowest player alive's level instead of 25%, etc.

Of course, things that seem simple usually aren't...