Engineer questions, Bugs

Since the engineer was out and looks interesting, so I gave it a try and see how to play with an engineer. It's a level 49 player named 'Bushi'.

I think the balance issue for engineer is acceptable now (at my level 49). Before the nerf, I could pretty easy to score over 1000 without any problem. Now, most time I could just hit below 1000 and at most was about 1200. So here are some problems I have noticed:

1.) I am level 49 but my loaded engineer is still stuck at level 10 and the level 11 option is still not available. I think it's a bug that many people have encountered. Currently the info says for every 4 levels, you can buy 1 level of load engineer:

truncate (level 49 / 4) = 12

I should able to buy up to level 12 load engineer, but I cant.

2.) Block can be telefrag sometimes... can be destroyed if someone keep move/crouch/jump around the block...as Jason mentioned.

3.) Infinite blocks can be summoned because of a glitch, even there is a block limit (someone has mentioned that before).

4.) Sometimes cannot summon things above some non-solid floors (like the floor you can look through it with many small holes). It said there is no room to make it.

5.) The energy shield for Paladin tank would block everything, including player's fire (basically it's not a problem, just want to mention here).

6.) The last thing is the problem for a high level engineer (maybe around level 200). We still don't have an engineer as level 200, but we will get it soon:

IMO, I think it's almost impossible to survive as a very high level engineer. Assume an engineer is level 200 and he is the last guy to survive at the map, with max armor vamp, armor regen, construction bonus and sit inside the Paladin (or an equivalent vehicle). Whatever he tries his best to kill, it's impossible to kill all level 200 monsters by his own, especially at warlords wave (vehicle cannot dodge well like normal players). Sooner, his vehicle get destroyed, he must run by himself to survive, but the only useful charm for him is shield blast... he will take forever to kill a monster and his health keep draining (no vamp like WM, no self healing like MM, no powerful charm to kill monster like LA, constructe something take time)...

I know engineer is a defence class more than an offence class like WM & LA, but solo for an engineer is just a miracle at high level?

I think its suppose to be 5 times...i dunno.....

Onimusha wrote:

1.) I am level 49 but my loaded engineer is still stuck at level 10 and the level 11 option is still not available. I think it's a bug that many people have encountered. Currently the info says for every 4 levels, you can buy 1 level of load engineer:

truncate (level 49 / 4) = 12

I should able to buy up to level 12 load engineer, but I cant.

In the latest version it went to 6 levels for each LE level. Engineers were maxing out LE too quickly and getting too much fire power. Unfortunately, the comment on the skill stills says 4 levels. It is fixed, waiting for the next version to be rolled out.

Onimusha wrote:

6.) The last thing is the problem for a high level engineer (maybe around level 200). We still don't have an engineer as level 200, but we will get it soon:

IMO, I think it's almost impossible to survive as a very high level engineer. Assume an engineer is level 200 and he is the last guy to survive at the map, with max armor vamp, armor regen, construction bonus and sit inside the Paladin (or an equivalent vehicle). Whatever he tries his best to kill, it's impossible to kill all level 200 monsters by his own, especially at warlords wave (vehicle cannot dodge well like normal players). Sooner, his vehicle get destroyed, he must run by himself to survive, but the only useful charm for him is shield blast... he will take forever to kill a monster and his health keep draining (no vamp like WM, no self healing like MM, no powerful charm to kill monster like LA, constructe something take time)...

I know engineer is a defence class more than an offence class like WM & LA, but solo for an engineer is just a miracle at high level?

In a way, all classes can only survive once they get to that high a level by using piercing weapons. So WMs, AMs, even medics have the same problem - they have to use a piercing weapon to stand a chance.

As a lvl 220 medic, how do you get on when you are the only one left? Can you rely on self-healing to survive, or do you need a piercing weapon?

The problem isn't really with the Engineers, its the DB/DR effect - so is a problem in the core RPG. I proposed re-writing the damage code so the DB/DR wasn't such a bad problem, by capping the loss, but it got rejected. People prefered the 'need a piercing' situation.

So, they need a piercing.

(Of course it would be possible to code turrets as piercing, but that would put engineers back as front line fighters rather than support, and would make them too powerful again)

Hey just thought and *idea*...Magic weapon maker.......but what of a magic turret maker..

...(well excluding inf of course..

..) ..
thena gian theres the fornt line fighter prob...
Hmm ..well speaking as survivable medic...what i rely on is running around healing myself and shooting the baddies ..repeat..(rod if I can)..as engineer last alive..I flee ....set upa sent where i can heal aroudn a corner....hide......when it explodes..run more....

Now I understand why it's so difficult to solo as a level 200+ characters because other players demanded for it, and piercing is the last resort that you can kill monsters.

As you mentioned, yes, it's almost impossible to kill monsters if you are the last survivor without piercing weapons:

At last week, I played with my lvl 220 medic and I was the last guy at wave 14 (all Titan's wave). Before wave 14, no one got piercing weapons can share. I was stuck at a small room that all surrounded by Titans outside the room and using berserk with medic flak (no need to save adren to use heal blast, whatever rock could kill you by 1 hit). I fouced to aim the closed normal titan to me. After my adren ran out, this Titan was still survive. So I kept shooting to this Titans for a few more mins until I killed by a rock, but this Titan was still survive. And I have noticed my xp actually almost never increase by a point during this Titan fight (I will make sure for that if I have a chance to solo again). That means my damage was just very very little because I think xp is directly proportional to your damage.

Without piercing weapons, to stand a chance to win the wave, you can only flee... Even with piercing weapons, my ammo would run out fast since I don't have resupply...

I am not complaining anything, just want to share my experience. Hope it can help you and will make this server more fun! Thanks for your reply from the previous post anyway!

After reading the above posts I now understand why I had 75 stat points to spend for my ZOGineer character recently.

I was previously LE level 15 and my ENG was level 60. If the new default is one LE level per 6 player levels then I should be capped at LE level 10.

The server gave me back all the points I spent on LE 11-15.

13+14+15+16+17 = 75 points.

I'm fairly certain that when I reach level 66 (next multiple of 6) that I will get a negative 13 points to coincide with LE level 11 cost.

In the meantime, I get to use all LE level 15 abilities.

Hopefully this will help other ENG players to understand what is happening to their stat points.

Be careful. Knowingly spending points you should not have may be considered exploiting a loophole. Get authorisation from an Admin before you buy anything.

I noticed two funny things:

a) In some maps (at least two) the shield blast is not seen at all, but it does work. That is, you don't see that yellow ball at the beggining nor the explosion (you can hear it though). One of those maps is Seasons (you can't see it anywhere outside, did not try in the church). Grendels healing blast was plainly visible on the same spot I tried. It was not just me, others did not see it either. I do not know the name of another map...

b) Defense sentinels shoot thru walls. Do not know if this happens on all maps, but it definately happens in (again) Seasons, where it can shoot thru the walls of the church. I noticed it on another map too, where it shot thru a low ceiling (and it was not a grill-like ceiling, it was concrete...), but don't know the name of that map. Both times I noticed it was titans waves, as I only use defense sents at those waves.

c) If there are players around me when I am about to die, I usually try to shield blast them before I ascend to higher planes. Although I loose adrenaline and I can see that yellow sphere on the floor, after I die the blast sometimes does not go off.

The blast not going off after death Ive seen myself as medic ..as for not seen the bal fo light b4 explosion..ive notcied it too but i passe dit off as the fact that ALL the blasts will loook for a ' solid ' gorund and soemtimes with find that under the terrain...so thus its still goin off but its actually under ground..
( no real wway to fidn out as the medic blast can heal from 1--> alotiush vs shield blast of just to 150....way i tell in meidc is it doesnt heall as high as it should cus its far below the ground...sheild blast far ..may not heal as much but theres not much to heal in first place..

.)

Shooting though walls?..Mite be only def sent..seeing thats the most recently made one...check the toher ones nx time ur on...ill try the same...it prolly has to do wiht the fact of the properties of the map..and walls..(those are prolly static meshes....Im guessing....)

so yeah

Onimusha wrote:

Since the engineer was out and looks interesting, so I gave it a try and see how to play with an engineer. It's a level 49 player named 'Bushi'.

I think the balance issue for engineer is acceptable now (at my level 49). Before the nerf, I could pretty easy to score over 1000 without any problem. Now, most time I could just hit below 1000 and at most was about 1200. So here are some problems I have noticed:

1.) I am level 49 but my loaded engineer is still stuck at level 10 and the level 11 option is still not available. I think it's a bug that many people have encountered. Currently the info says for every 4 levels, you can buy 1 level of load engineer:

truncate (level 49 / 4) = 12

I should able to buy up to level 12 load engineer, but I cant.

2.) Block can be telefrag sometimes... can be destroyed if someone keep move/crouch/jump around the block...as Jason mentioned.

3.) Infinite blocks can be summoned because of a glitch, even there is a block limit (someone has mentioned that before).

4.) Sometimes cannot summon things above some non-solid floors (like the floor you can look through it with many small holes). It said there is no room to make it.

5.) The energy shield for Paladin tank would block everything, including player's fire (basically it's not a problem, just want to mention here).

6.) The last thing is the problem for a high level engineer (maybe around level 200). We still don't have an engineer as level 200, but we will get it soon:

IMO, I think it's almost impossible to survive as a very high level engineer. Assume an engineer is level 200 and he is the last guy to survive at the map, with max armor vamp, armor regen, construction bonus and sit inside the Paladin (or an equivalent vehicle). Whatever he tries his best to kill, it's impossible to kill all level 200 monsters by his own, especially at warlords wave (vehicle cannot dodge well like normal players). Sooner, his vehicle get destroyed, he must run by himself to survive, but the only useful charm for him is shield blast... he will take forever to kill a monster and his health keep draining (no vamp like WM, no self healing like MM, no powerful charm to kill monster like LA, constructe something take time)...

I know engineer is a defence class more than an offence class like WM & LA, but solo for an engineer is just a miracle at high level?

I thought lightning sents removed a percentage of the monsters total health? I know that they don't last long on later levels, but they do get a few shots off, then its waiting another 75 seconds (or so)

Yeah wonko..but now u can summon more sents..and also u can buy more health for ur sents..and..IDEA!...Have it so lvl 200 can buy advanced construction damage red?.. (medics can buy advanced damaged red for themselves..and as a result their pets..but for the neers..give it to just their summons cus well..THEY CANT DODGE!GIVE EM A CHANCE!

Same req as medic one just diff..

....its a thought...

Onimusha wrote:

....
4.) Sometimes cannot summon things above some non-solid floors (like the floor you can look through it with many small holes). It said there is no room to make it....

Well if it gives ' unable to spawn' then summon it while the trans is still in the air...or something like that..if still not..then ah well..

..

Szlat wrote:

Some extra changes in cvs:

a) Combined all the Druid Texture and Mesh files (not the DCMonster ones). This is basically a tidying up exercise. We now have:

DCText.utx - combines DCTextures, DruidEngTextures, dcEngTex, DruidsRPGShaders1, and adds new textures.
So DCTextures.utx, DruidEngTextures.utx, dcEngTex.utx, DruidsRPGShaders1.utx are no longer required.

DCStatic.usx - combines dcBlocksMesh, DruidEngStatics, DCStatics, and adds some new static meshes.
So dcBlocksMesh.usx, DruidEngStatics.usx, DCStatics.usx are no longer required.

DCMesh.ukx - replaces dcBlocksMeshes
So dcBlocksMeshes.ukx is no longer required.

Lots of files updated to reference the new texture files.

b) Added 3 new sentinels. These are all variants of the lightning, defense and normal sentinel that attach to the ceiling rather than the floor. So they shouldn't get in the way as much. Cost and damage exactly the same.

c) You can now only spawn sentinels and turrets on surfaces which are world geometry - so no more trying to perch sentinels on top of vehicles.

d) Icons updated for RemoteInv, RemoteMax and RemoteDamage to distinguish them

e) Icons for "Kill all summoned...." artifacts changed to distinguish the kills from the summons.

f) New icon added for summon block artifacts - used to use the pet icon

g) Defense sentinels now shoot green bolts to take out missiles, to distinguish them from other bolts. Defense sentinel color changed to green to match.

h) Engineer link gun overlay color changed from the infinity red color to a new yellow color, to distinguish it.

i) Updated RPG.ini file in cvs to add extra sentinels to configuration

¡Lets give Szlat a Round of applause ppl!..

Although he may not be the sole maker fo the engineer class he sure has done a heck of lot of work with it you cant deny that
Hes done quite a splendid job working on the engineer class and with fixing bugs, balancing it, tweaking the finer points and making sure there is fair balance and its kicks to play..

..

Absolutely great work..

...

Cheers! Keep up the good work Szlat ...
Ps..I love the ceiling idea..o_o.....sweet..

...

I agree, the class is a success!

here is to all of your hard work, long hours and dedicated effort in making this a fun and balanced class to play

3 cheers

hip

hip

hoooooooorah!

Wonko The Sane wrote:

b) Defense sentinels shoot thru walls. Do not know if this happens on all maps, but it definately happens in (again) Seasons, where it can shoot thru the walls of the church. I noticed it on another map too, where it shot thru a low ceiling (and it was not a grill-like ceiling, it was concrete...), but don't know the name of that map. Both times I noticed it was titans waves, as I only use defense sents at those waves.

Ooops

Forgot to put in the check that there was an unobstructed line between the sentinel and projectile. I will submit a fix to cvs later tonight.
Well spotted.