Lack of Adrenaline

Adrenaline is not in UT3. Adrenaline was used for combos like Boost/Berserk, and for most Artifacts (e.g. Magic Weapon Maker, Triple Damage).

We have a number of options:

Implement Adrenaline. Basically, whenever an enemy gets killed, give the killer some Adrenaline (or whatever we want to call it). Display it in the HUD, and allow the user to spend it

Still have Artifacts, but limit by time instead of a useable resource. So you could run a Triple Damage, then have to wait 60 seconds before you could use another Artifact. Similar to how the Engineer Artifact use goes

Implement Artifacts some other way

Not have Artifacts. Personally, I am against this one as I like artifacts, and would like them in in some form

Personally, I do not consider combos to be an inherent part of the RPG.

I am firmly in favor of introducing some form of adrenaline. Someone on my forum suggested calling it Mana (http://www.onsrpg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=596&p=6258#p6256). A lot of RPG is build around adrenaline so I think it is an essential ingredient. My BattleMOD mutator (http://www.onsrpg.com/ut3mods.php) contains a custom HUD and custom scoreboard which can be used to add extra information like RPG level and "Mana" to the game.

I think adrenaline(or whatever it will be called) is an absolute must - I honestly cant imagine playing RPG without it.

The artifacts, however need to be looked at as there are a lot of them that are rarely, if ever, used.

Well thats just flat out weird! The previous post was made by me how I ended up anonymous I dont know

I think that since we now have interfaces in Uscript that a lot of things like this should reworked to take advantage of that. Personally I think a Mana class that implemented some sort of generic stat/point interface would work but using an interface you could end up with seperate classes for stuff like monster points, mana/magic, artifact etc.. (just a general *idea* of what points *could* be made not saying those are particularly good examples) Taking this approach would add a lot to making the entire gametype more structured than it currently is (core level just makes my head hurt)

Szlat wrote:

Personally, I do not consider combos to be an inherent part of the RPG.

Hey now, let's not get carried away. There are numerous combos that are used on other servers, but the most common used with DC are the berserk and health combos, with some speed and invisible thrown in. Let's not just toss them aside, please.

I would rather not have adrenaline in RPG.

Having some kind of "resource" is fine, but adrenaline has two major issues:

(1) It's placeable, which means that it's easily abused by people who create maps and place hundreds of "resource" spawns, or "resources" that respawn every second
(2) Rewarding "resource" with kills. This creates a positive feedback loop for items like the Lightning Rod and Triple Damage. Further, since adrenaline is rewarded based on points value of monsters, custom monsters with poorly thought out points values caused issues for RPG interclass balance

In Druids200, at least, only the AM makes heavy use of active "resource" requiring abilities. A Medic only has one ability (Medic Weapon Maker), and I can't think of any at all for the WM. I would much rather that most abilities be active, and that every "class"/"type of character" would have access to a fair number of active-use abilities. This would establish a much better baseline for all characters/types of characters, and also limit power levels more effectively.

Regeneration of "resource" should be at a static rate, or static with small passive increases in regeneration speed. "Resource" transfer from one player to another might also be a workable idea, if limited in some fashion.

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Szlat wrote:

Personally, I do not consider combos to be an inherent part of the RPG.
Hey now, let's not get carried away. There are numerous combos that are used on other servers, but the most common used with DC are the berserk and health combos, with some speed and invisible thrown in. Let's not just toss them aside, please.

Combos were a part of UT2004. They were not part of UT2004RPG. Remember, you did not buy the combo abilities with points gained from levelling up.
UT3 does not have adrenaline, and implements berserk/invisibility using pickups rather than adrenaline. It is a different philosophy, and I think we need to see how it plays in UT3 more before deciding.
Remember, if what we really want is speed/booster/berserk we could always implement artifacts to do the same thing.

Szlat wrote:

We have a number of options:

Implement Adrenaline. Basically, whenever an enemy gets killed, give the killer some Adrenaline (or whatever we want to call it). Display it in the HUD, and allow the user to spend it

I like this.

Szlat wrote:

Still have Artifacts, but limit by time instead of a useable resource. So you could run a Triple Damage, then have to wait 60 seconds before you could use another Artifact. Similar to how the Engineer Artifact use goes

I don't like this, because everyone can use the artifacts for the same amount of time. I like it that now, if you are better, you get adrenaline faster (kills) and can use artifacts more than someone who is hiding behind a wall.

I think having adrenaline would be a good idea, but I also think Wail's thought about "positive feedback loops" definitely have some merit.

My idea:
Implement adrenaline. (Or if preferred, call it mana or magicka or MP or whatever)
Make it so that by default, everyone has a fairly small pool of the stuff, say 50 adren. Give everyone a slow adren regen ability by default, perhaps the equivalent of the current adren drip 1. This ability could further be limited as to when it works; IE you could make it so you don't regen if you've taken damage in the last 2 seconds, or if you've used an artifact within the last 2 seconds, or whatever. If such limits are employed, make some buyable abilities that remove them. By default, the only way to regenerate adrenaline is to wait for it, but abilities like Energy Leech could provide alternative venues. You can also improve the total size of your adrenaline pool by spending stat points on it, just like it is now.
Then make it so adren fuels all artifacts. Cooldowns for some artifacts could be used in addition to adrenaline costs, but not in replacement.
Lastly, it would be possible to make some buyable abilities fueled by adrenaline. For example, one could change it so that many of the more magical abilities in the game take adrenaline; Vampire steals health, but also takes adren for every health stolen etc. This would mean that a toggle switch would need to be coded in for such abilities, or else an option to unbuy them at will. If desired, Adrenaline could even become the main venue for healing.

In whatever form however, I am definitely in support of adrenaline/adrenaline substitute.

After reading and thinking this thread and others that seem to go hand in hand with the adrenaline, so a few thoughts here:

1) we could make some of the artifacts that we all get a "use once"(or once per round) like the summoning charm, no adrenaline required.

2) There is more than just adrenilin from kills, there wont be any more pickups. Made to a pure point system (call it what you may) seems to be the only way to go. The pool starts a "value/size" and as a player increases in levels, the pool increases in size (or the player can choose to increse the pool as we do now). But with the lack of pickups, that gives those of us without leach less of a chance to fill our pools (unless we get an energy weapon). SO, maybe it could be damage based (as our XP is) rather than kills (just a half brained thought)

3) The energy weapon could be class specific, like medic and engineer weapons are if we go to a damage and not kill based system. This could eliminate Leach as an ability as we all leach when we damage, and an energy weapon gives the AM that extra oomph.

There are too many scenarios with this, so I think we will have to start over with the basics and work forward from there. It's too much to work on/comprehend at once.

ummmm am I right that your talk'n/think'n bout change'n the adren system????

I like my adren char as it is and I try to make weapons to pass out and use my diff artifacts when i can....true there are some that i almost never use but I also just got to max adren lvl

dom60 wrote:

ummmm am I right that your talk'n/think'n bout change'n the adren system????

I like my adren char as it is and I try to make weapons to pass out and use my diff artifacts when i can....true there are some that i almost never use but I also just got to max adren lvl

Well, as Szlat mentioned... "Adrenaline is not in UT3. "

Wail wrote:

Having some kind of "resource" is fine, but adrenaline has two major issues:
(1) It's placeable, which means that it's easily abused by people who create maps and place hundreds of "resource" spawns, or "resources" that respawn every second

People can generate poor maps for all sorts of reasons. It is up to server admins to choose the ones they want. A really difficult server may require maps with lots of adrenaline.
However, because Adrenaline is not part of UT3, then UT3 maps will by default not have Adrenline placed on them

Wail wrote:

(2) Rewarding "resource" with kills. This creates a positive feedback loop for items like the Lightning Rod and Triple Damage. Further, since adrenaline is rewarded based on points value of monsters, custom monsters with poorly thought out points values caused issues for RPG interclass balance

It would be easy to not allow any adrenaline gain whilst an artifact is running.

I think one of 3 things would need to happen.

1. Implement Adrenaline and use it like Ut2004 does.
2. Add timers and recast timers
3. Have it instead draw on the users Health. Using an artifact drains health. (Maybe some abuse if you have a Medic just plain heal you)