idea for new sent?

I thought of an idea for a sent that I think fits in well with the role of the engineer(support). A link sent. It wouldn't attack on its own instead it would link to a nearby player with a link gun and give them a boost. the engineer would get a small amount of exp(smaller then normal link boost) and the benefacter would get more kills(any class can use the link gun)

Interesting idea.

The code for linking is buried quite deep, and may not be easy to change. If we can't change it, then the linking sentinel would get 50% of the xp from the player making the kills, in return for doubling the damage of the player.

Initially this seems high, and most players would tend to avoid it. Except:

the engineer themselves. Stick two of these down next to you, and get all the xp but have 3 times the damage. Stick on a berserk, and goodbye titans.

in the really difficult waves players may be more willing to tradeoff sharing their xp with having sufficient extra fire power to survive

And since players will always have the option of using a link or something else, there is no automatic grabbing of xp. The player always has to 'opt in' by using the link. Sounds like it might work.

Imagine: 4 engineers each putting down a link sentinel. Each engineer gets boosted by four, so do 5 times damage. Effectively 20 link guns firing out of a base. Mmmm.

Do we need a limit on how many players can get boosted by one sentinel? Or is it all within a certain range?

I like the idea! I'd definately say one sent should only link one player at a time. And one player should only be linked with one sent at a time. And the sents don't link to each other.

I have another non-offensive sent idea. A sent similar to lighting one, but shoots players and boosts shields with every shot. You should not get XP for it though. Kinda like a fountain of youth :]

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I'd definately say one sent should only link one player at a time. And one player should only be linked with one sent at a time. And the sents don't link to each other.

But if each sentinel just links to one player, does it link to the engineer who spawned it and no one else, or does it spawn to who ever is closer? Either way I can see players getting frustrated at other players pinching their boost.

My first thought was that it may be too powerful. Permanent double damage? However, consider that if the engineer has the link sentinel, he doesn't have the normal sentinel, which could net up to 100 kills. (assuming the link sentinel costs 8 points) Also, he is fixed in one place rather than being able to roam over the map. So, not so unfair.

For balance purposes, let's compare this to the AMs sphere of damage. Both in effect give double damage.

The sphere lasts about 10 seconds, costs the AM his adrenaline, and gives the AM 1xp per second per player, so around 30xp per use. An AM could run a sphere every wave except the first, and perhaps get 400+xp from the sphere, assuming 3 other players within sphere.

The sentinel lasts until destroyed, costs the engineer his offensive sentinel, and gives the engineer a proportion of the xp of boosted players. How much xp in a map - difficult to tell, but is likely to vary.

Consider we have 4 engineers in a base, with 4 normal sentinels. They form a link chain, taking it in turns to be the head, and wipe out everything that comes their way. They will each get say 1000xp.
Instead, consider they each put down a link sentinel, and each just fire, getting links from the four sentinels. They still wipe out everything (but more easily), but still score the same xp (same number of monsters they have wiped out).
So no bonus xp. In fact, they are likely to get less, as when you have one person at the head of a chain, you will get more killing sprees, rather than when the kills are split 4 ways.

So, the engineer will only really benefit from a link sentinel when it links to non-engineers. Then it is up to the non-engineer if they want to use a link or not.
Seems fine to me.

Ya i agree it could make super powered engineers but mabye the sent cant link to its own engineer?(so its kind of a gamble on helping your teammates like what I think the enginner was intended for) or only one of the engineers sents can link to him(So if the engineer builds 2 only 1 links to him but any1 else can have both)

on a side note maybe they could also repair vehicles(not turrets) slowly so they can be used as a sort of pit stop(it would have to be slow enough that moving would prevent more damage than camping). No exp for this though.

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I like the idea! I'd definitely say one sent should only link one player at a time. And one player should only be linked with one sent at a time. And the sents don't link to each other.

Szlat wrote:

I...Imagine: 4 engineers each putting down a link sentinel. Each engineer gets boosted by four, so do 5 times damage. Effectively 20 link guns firing out of a base. Mmmm.

Do we need a limit on how many players can get boosted by one sentinel? Or is it all within a certain range?

Well heres what I think....I think it could either:
a)Link to about 2-3 players..BUT!! the damage and xp bonus to reduce accordingly....
b)Who gets the linking? The strongest player(ie most Damage bonus or the best gun...I dont know..)
Or maybe it could choose anyone but prefer certain players over others..
Like Strongest player EXCEPT if owner comes in..then help him by splitting for just the owner so u have 1 link for anyone ..and one for owner..but if 2 players(owner + player) are linked on, the damage bonus and xp retrieval are lowered (like 1.5 Damage bonus for them both ...half original xp gain from linking to the other player.)

Also would this link to vehicles.? (I think not..cus then well..turrets..ALTHOUGH the link sent could link up to engi ..linking turret ..to give an a continuous dam bonus..due to boost kicking up the health all the time and keeping it at full so the damage boosting zone for engi link-turret stays up..hmm.

..)

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I have another non-offensive sent idea. A sent similar to lighting one, but shoots players and boosts shields with every shot. You should not get XP for it though. Kinda like a fountain of youth :]

One problem:
There was a suggestion similar like this more than once for the medic class..one was like a adren using ' healing' rod..and the other was like a nali cow..which would go around healing ppl..(Dont know if they get xp themsleves)
Thing is that if you make the engis to more effective at shield healing..the medic wont have anything to do themselves...as NO damage is taken off the health until the shields hit under the 100 mark..so
The medics would need some " little helpers" too..

Which I have no quams about..

5p33d0fD4rk wrote:

Ya i agree it could make super powered engineers but mabye the sent cant link to its own engineer?(so its kind of a gamble on helping your teammates like what I think the enginner was intended for) or only one of the engineers sents can link to him(So if the engineer builds 2 only 1 links to him but any1 else can have both)

on a side note maybe they could also repair vehicles(not turrets) slowly so they can be used as a sort of pit stop(it would have to be slow enough that moving would prevent more damage than camping). No exp for this though.

Like the vehicle idea..but ...it seems..complicated..(but so is the whole link sent idea from what I gather?)

Not linking to engi what so ever?...That would be discouraging for its building..cus well...
Engi get some kill from constructs as medic gets from pets.....the problem b4 was that engi ran out and covered 2 flanks..now..its just the Same as a WM with advanced damage bonus...but with cement feet so they can stay only in one area..

So yeah my thoughts:

Link to engi all the time ?..some of the time..none of the time? Id say split for their owner so player linked by sent = 2x damage with 50% xp for engi. Engi comes along, 1.5 x for both of them and a 25%/10% xp from the other player..so its a smaller boost..but more directions..

Link to vehicles..turrets?...only link to vehicles and give the strategical possibility of using it along with engi to damage bonus a turret? Perhaps only give heal to vehicles and/or turrets when health hit under 50% of original amt...attempting to heal to max(or heal it to 50%) after which it wont again until it goes under 50% again...BUT will prefer to link players...cus well xp for owner..

Targeted by monsters?..Or like def sent..cus it cant do anything alone..

The shield sent?If anything it could be 2/1 shield per shot..so 75/150 sec to fill a shield about...not in favour persay....but thats cus the medic doesnt either..

the engi already has a 30 adren shield blast....What can I say ?Medic at heart..

..

so yeah...

I have thought about it some more and I think this would mainly benefit engineers (cmon, its link) and I am not sure if we want that. Think titan waves, where we alredy score pretty decent. The idea is good but I would wait and see what new sent changes mean and only after that introduce something to boost us if it turns out its needed.

Wonko would not be Wonko if he would not try to sneak his own idea into every post: Similar thing but more community oriented. A sent which forms a sphere around it. Everyone inside the sphere gets boosted. It shouldn't be double damage, more like onepointthreeple damage. The sent looses health at a stedy rate and you can not do anything about it, so it dies after x seconds. Another option is it has normal health, but puts up a sphere for x seconds than cools down for 3x seconds and puts the sphere up again etc. Similar to that DD sphere, but it could last more and boost less. It should be available for really high levels (e.g. 150), so you wouldn't see more of them usually, and eats all 15 LE points.

Well think about it this way wonko:
The engineer gets their kills one form link and one from sent, this in effect is covering more ground with less power...

This Idea however will boost engis..HOWEVER they will be having greater power in ONE area, like how WM , AMs and medic can only be strong in one area..BUT they arent portable fire houses like the WM / AM..so along with taking one sent out (so now it will be one per engi) this one would encourage the engi to stay in one area..And If the said engi starts taking many kills...very well...the WM can move with their power..engi cant
And seeing these sents would be more powerful in numbers (btw it wont be 2x for each link right?..say 3 sents link one player it wont be 6x....)

As for ur idea wonko....Nice idea..but I though thats the AMs field?..Though it reminds me of an idea I had of a sent with s spherical shield..that shrinks with time..(said shield is like pandalin effect..can run through but not shoot through....well...maybe friendly fire shoots through? but yeah ur ideas could also also apply....

Lets not flood the design team too much thou..

...

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I have thought about it some more and I think this would mainly benefit engineers (cmon, its link) and I am not sure if we want that. Think titan waves, where we alredy score pretty decent. The idea is good but I would wait and see what new sent changes mean and only after that introduce something to boost us if it turns out its needed.

I agree we do not want engineers getting even higher scores than they currently do. And as you say, it boosts links which is the weapon Engineers use.

However, when an engineer is using a link sentinel,

others can benefit equally (as far as the scoreboard goes - engineers get more of the xp, but that is not reflected on the scoreboard)

the engineer is not getting sentinel kills

And on titan waves, berserk doesn't help engineers more than anyone else. Currently someone with an energy link or flak with resupply will do better than an engineer.

It might be worth trying. Other players may need to learn to tap into the bonuses provided by the engineers. Provided the link sentinel benefits all classes equally (scoring wise), then I think it may work.

Itd take some getting adjusted to..but I think it can and will benefit most classes...providing the engineer picks a good spot to spawn it...Its one thing that could change game play dynamics...like how Medic make Using Rage weapons easier..and how now AMs can remote max ur draining flak to an E3..
Adding anything to game will change its dynamics and play..so those who can use it to their advantage (in this case a link sent is useable by everyone..cus everyone can get inf link as Szlat..AM /WM resupply...medic medic link...Engi has the lowest link possible with llittle options of diff weps

Theyd also be A Healing Hub (as said b4..) Even if they cant link vehicles and other sents they boost the healing of th engi ..(and medics with they have medic link..

..)

Altogether great idea..

....Hope it can be made...

Just assuming the link sentinel is set in, would it or not, when it links an engineer, increase the length of their alt-link beam?

I noticed that when an engineer is linked by someone, their once shortened beam either increases in length to the original link gun length, or is actually even longer.

CaRnaGe wrote:

Just assuming the link sentinel is set in, would it or not, when it links an engineer, increase the length of their alt-link beam?

I noticed that when an engineer is linked by someone, their once shortened beam either increases in length to the original link gun length, or is actually even longer.

This occurs with all links ..Only you establish link it can and will stretch..but the more you stretch..the more you stress this link and it becomes more likely to break HOWEVER this stretch is proportional to original length if Im not mistaken..
Irregardless..you cant get a longer length for alt fire attacking..(the reason the engi link is shortened cus its 2x as powerful as normal link) so thus no biggie....

Id wager a 'Yes' as all the links do this..so Im presuming its part of the linking feature..

OK, it might be worth a try, but how exactly does it work? Szlat alredy pointed out that if it links only one player there could be some "link stealing", confusion etc. The easiest thing to do would be that it links everyone in range that carries a link, but that seems a bit much to me. Say there are 3 players in a fort, one sent of such kind would mean permanent DD for all 3, if they use link... For other players it might be OK, as they run out of link amo (my WM has resuply 3 and link runs out of amo quickly), but for engineers it would really be a permanent DD (at that specific part of the map). So it would benefit engineers more than others... That kind of sentinel would not attack, so I figure it would not get attacked much either. Meaning it would survive almost everything.

I suggest it links everyone in range carying a link, but the sentinel looses health on its own rather quickly, so the players have to heal it here and there if they want the benefit of it for a longer time. Perhaps it spawns with full health and lasts about 20s on its own (if not attacked and healed), timer cooldown should be considerably longer, so you wouldn't let it die and just spawn another.

If loosing health seems a bit much, the sent could have a fixed amount of amo and resuply. Or you boost amo with link so the sent does not die on its own, it just stops helping you untill you "refill" it. I also like this because it would be different if the sent was linking one player or 4 (would loose amo faster).

I still think that you should only be linked by one sent at a time.

Im thinking a reduce in DB and xp gained would be better

Health lost = Camping to heal.(unless its non-healable..then ppl lose incentive)

Ammo lost= Camping to keep resupplied
IMO I think making this sent a 'port' would be just as effective and give the same results..
This meaning it completely inanimate on its own...but it just 'modifies' the engineer.. so that when they link the sent...it acts as sorta splitter/booster..linking to the players in immediate vicinity giving them a boost sorta like making the engi have multiple links to link multiple ppl at once
BUT seeing tis just splitting the same reducing DB would happen so more links = less DB per person

Also Wonko it wont survive anything..Cus the def sent doesnt....Because fot he fact that the enemy doesnt aim at it..but seeing you have to be in range of the sent to benefit + monsters being bad shots= sent loosing health, although not fast..but still losing it none the less

My thoughts still remains that: the Damage Bonus added will be like 2x for one linked...2 linked = 2-(0.n), 3linked= 2-(0.n+0.1), 4linked=2-(0.n+0.2) and so forth
until you reach about 1.1/.2/.3 and THEN that be the max numebr linked...which..isnt very likly cus your dont usually have that many players with link in on area Seeing that

ECHO wrote:

Biggest Link Chain: 14 ...

from the DC score board

Also Just as normal linking has roof on amount of DB added on...the same can be applied to sents..just that linking sents will give the engi XP but the player no more boost than if they had the max number to boost(the sents in fact acting like a normal player linking on...so the head player still has the ceiling.) I dont know ...my points need more developing..in order to make any sense...or do they make some sort of sense?

-Jason_x- wrote:

Health lost = Camping to heal.(unless its non-healable..then ppl lose incentive)

Ammo lost= Camping to keep resupplied

OK, I agree loosing health might be a bad idea, but loosing amo does not interfere with camping. C'mon, its a boosting sentinel, if you want to benefit from it you have to be "camping" near it in the first place. If you are elsewhere in map and some other players want its benefits - they can refill it themselves...