LA players need help

I do feel that LA characters have large advantages in the attack/damage category although mastering all the abilities will take some time,

however......

In playing my LA character as of late I have just realized the great disadvantages that I must endure to be effective on maps where there is very scarce health pickups, with no medics playing. It is of course even worse when there are no engineers playing, as finding shield can also be tricky sometimes. This of course leaves an Adren player with one choice: Booster. Which leads me to my suggestion. Booster is adrenaline based, so should it not somehow be more effective for Adren players?? Perhaps booster could heal past the current max health and shield for LA players only. I know this has always been this way but it seems somewhat imbalanced that every other class can heal itself in one form or another(Vamp, Regen, Medic weps, Engineer weps)

Just a thought I had and wanted to share.

Micron(Micron) wrote:

I do feel that LA characters have large advantages in the attack/damage category although mastering all the abilities will take some time,

however......

In playing my LA character as of late I have just realized the great disadvantages that I must endure to be effective on maps where there is very scarce health pickups, with no medics playing. It is of course even worse when there are no engineers playing, as finding shield can also be tricky sometimes. This of course leaves an Adren player with one choice: Booster. Which leads me to my suggestion. Booster is adrenaline based, so should it not somehow be more effective for Adren players?? Perhaps booster could heal past the current max health and shield for LA players only. I know this has always been this way but it seems somewhat imbalanced that every other class can heal itself in one form or another(Vamp, Regen, Medic weps, Engineer weps)

Just a thought I had and wanted to share.

Why not just roll a Healing or Vampiric weapon? Adrenaline Masters already have the most versatility of any class in viable builds, and have much greater peak effectiveness.

Wail has point...technically they can heal themselves with a healing wep....and use vamp wep to keep it up...which ..depending on how much past they add on can be very effective....
Though I agree surviving may be hard with AM...with out constructs the engis die as easily too....but eh..Wail is right..

wail wrote:

Why not just roll a Healing or Vampiric weapon? Adrenaline Masters already have the most versatility of any class in viable builds, and have much greater peak effectiveness.

Can someone calculate what the actual chance of making a vampiric or healing weapon is during a map and then cross calculate that with a weapon that you can actually use to heal yourself with.

I'm guessing it'd be about the same as making a vorpal or piercing...how much adren do you use trying to make those?

I gotta partially side with Micron on this issue. The biggest challenge facing LA players is, and always has been, being able to stay alive due the inability to effectively replenish health in some way.

A large part of the issue is the map being played. Scarce health pickups make things VERY tough, even for a player with maxed out "Smart healing", as the health pickups take time to reappear. (and we all know that you can go from full health to dead in 1.48 seconds in the later waves) Medics and LW players have a never ending health regen at their disposal regardless of how much adren they have. LA players have to rely on pickups or having a minimum of 100 adren to activate booster.

Which brings me to vamp/healing weaps. These weaps only heal up to 350 health. They also cannot be created 100% of the time like a medic can. They also run out of ammo, which a medic's healing weapon never does, nor does an LW players regen ability. I've witnessed many times where a lower level medic (50ish or below) has been able to stay alive solo in a tough wave by being able to heal themselves, and eventually beat the wave.

The percentage of making/picking up a vamp weapon seems fairly reasonable right now, however useful they may be. It seems that healing weapons appear slightly less often, but are more useful in that they don't require hitting an enemy to regen health.

Having said all of that, I'm not sure that it's a titanic issue at the moment. I have become resigned to the fact that even though my LA char is a fairly high level (171 currently), about 60-70% of the time I will stand zero chance of survival in a late wave if I'm the last man standing. The invuln. artifact only lasts for so long even with a good energy weapon. A LW player can use the invuln. artifact and at the same time regen health two ways , making it much easier to stay alive.

Bottom line is this:

Currently medics and LW's have a sizeable advantage in being able to go solo in the tough waves. Do we care? Is there a need for change? Perhaps a small tweak.

I like the idea of improving the "booster" powerup for LA's. Perhaps the improvement would be in a few areas. First, let booster heal all the way up to 450 health if the player's stats allow. Second, increase the speed at which booster heals (that may also require an adren consumed per sec. tweak). Third, perhaps nix the requirement of having 100 adren to activate booster. Speaking for myself, in the times you need booster it seems to take too long to regen health, and it'd be nice to get some amount of health back even if I don't have 100 adren a the time. Hmmmm.....perhaps we add an artifact that gives an instant "X" amount of health?

Sorry for being longwinded. All in all, a small tweak may help this issue.

p.s. I'd like a receipt for my $.02 for tax purposes.

It may not be feasible, but I always thought that LA's should be able to select what type of weapon to make and then the modifier can be either random or based on skill. Thoughts?

well i rarely get a medic or vamp weapon like i almost never make a vorp..( usally pick one up instead of make it)... and at 100 adren per weapon change and if you got max adren thats 250 it takes time to make weapons and get a good one to keep me alive or pass out
then it takes 150 adren to max any weapon..PS love the remote max in lvl 4

like the new icons/artifact styles
i got to the point of just face it i'm gonna die alot!

I have to agree that LA players (I'm one myself) are fragile. I hate maps that have little health/shield pickups and times when no medics are on the server. Running booser is ok but the regeneration rate on it is just too slow and its constantly eating adrenaline. While we can make a Healing or Vamp weapon it's a time consuming process. I've had times when im trying to get a certain ability for the weapon only to get endless Sturdy's/Protection's/Damage's for the weapon.

I like's Bot's Combo's he did for both Beserk and Booster (stops using adrenaline at max) but is there anyway to incorporate another mod that I've seen (and use on my Lan Server that wants the new version released

) that is called a Super Booster where it regenerates at 3x the speed for 3x the cost (just a faster booster).

Or instead of having us use Booster give us another Artifact that like is booster but has the ability to turn on and off and it heals faster. Mainly pump adrenline straight into health.

If the Values in the ini file are the same as 2.0 then thier the following.
Vampire: 1/35 (2.9%)
Vorpal: 1/35 (2.9%)
Infinity: 1/35 (2.9%)
Freeze: 1/35 (2.9%)
Healer: 2/35 (5.7%)
Knockback: 1/35 (2.9%)
Quickfoot: 1/35 (2.9%)
Null Entropy: 1/35 (2.9%)
Force: 2/35 (5.7%)
Penetrating: 2/35 (5.7%)
Damage: 4/35 (11.4%)
Sturdy: 3/35 (8.6%)
Energy: 2/35 (2.9%)
Poison: 3/35 (8.6%)
Luck: 3/35 (8.6%)
Protection: 3/35 (8.6%)
Piercing: 2/35 (5.7%)
Rage: 1/35 (2.9%)
Reflection: 1/35 (2.9%)

I think Druid wanted LWs to be the in-the-thick-of-it fighters. If LAs could get health back as fast as LWs, then they would be just as much up front fighters as LWs. I think Druid wanted LAs to have to take a step back from the action, and be dependent upon medics for health. So I can't see it changing much. I think the idea is that a LA should always try to keep a LW between them and the monsters - not easy in later waves - and have an incentive to protect the medics.

It is possible to tweak the booster rate if required. It is possible to add an artifact that converts adrenaline instantly into health. It is possible to increase the frequency at which Vampire and Healing weapons get generated. But you specifically need Druid or Shan to agree to it before anything will happen, as it adjusts the class balance. And do not hold your breath waiting.

My problem when I play as a LA is that I want to stop in the action. I use triple and/or rod, and get a fair number of points. But I get hit on my health, and then realise I am low on adrenaline. Instead of running and hiding until my adrenaline is enough to boost, I will stop in the action....and die.

But in short, yes LAs do struggle on health more than medics or LWs. And that is part of the class.

Yeah I get the part about being dependant on medics, but what if there isnt any medics??

So my goal with my LA character is to get as many points as I can in the early waves then hide behind the engineer blocks for the rest of the map(this is currently how I've been playing)

I like the Electricians Idea about tweaking booster, perhaps increasing the booster speed ar possibly slowing the adrenaline drain time slightly during booster.

My biggest concern is that the LA class is very scarce to begin with, with most starting players choosing engineer or LW to start simply because it is sooooo much easier to get started.

LA players have the most rough times just after the loss of the Pre-40 Assists. It isnt till much later do they come back up to overcome the loss of the regeneration 2 that it granted.

WM's have Vamp and shortly later on Regeneration
Medics have thier Healing Weapons to +150.
Eng have Shield Regen later on and thier Constructions.

LA's have a very slow start but they can become very strong "Once" they get up in level. Beserk + Max Weapon Speed + DMM + Vorpal +11 (+22) on a Shock Rifle on titans anyone?

szlat wrote:

I think Druid wanted LWs to be the in-the-thick-of-it fighters. If LAs could get health back as fast as LWs, then they would be just as much up front fighters as LWs. I think Druid wanted LAs to have to take a step back from the action, and be dependent upon medics for health. So I can't see it changing much. I think the idea is that a LA should always try to keep a LW between them and the monsters - not easy in later waves - and have an incentive to protect the medics.

It is possible to tweak the booster rate if required. It is possible to add an artifact that converts adrenaline instantly into health. It is possible to increase the frequency at which Vampire and Healing weapons get generated. But you specifically need Druid or Shan to agree to it before anything will happen, as it adjusts the class balance. And do not hold your breath waiting.

My problem when I play as a LA is that I want to stop in the action. I use triple and/or rod, and get a fair number of points. But I get hit on my health, and then realise I am low on adrenaline. Instead of running and hiding until my adrenaline is enough to boost, I will stop in the action....and die.

But in short, yes LAs do struggle on health more than medics or LWs. And that is part of the class.

The only problem with this whole situation is that LA players gain XP only from killing things, perhaps if they could gain XP from some of their skills somehow it would make more sense to me. Medics and engineers can hide and heal between the different classes and still gain XP. La players get the short end of the stick, forced to hide during tough waves but gaining no XP from anything.

Micron(Micron) wrote:

The only problem with this whole situation is that LA players gain XP only from killing things, perhaps if they could gain XP from some of their skills somehow it would make more sense to me. Medics and engineers can hide and heal between the different classes and still gain XP. La players get the short end of the stick, forced to hide during tough waves but gaining no XP from anything.

Technically LA do get XP from one other thing but its so little for the cost.
According to the Wiki we get 10xp for giving someone a remote Damage or Remote Invun. and 15xp for giving someone a remote Max. Requires Level 4 LA and 100/150 Adrenaline but again its hardly noticable ever and not all that many people use the remotes.

I accidentally closed my window while i was almost done with my long post =( so I'll do a short version.

Idea 1: new ability that lets AMs use adren combos (booster berzerk etc.) at less than 100 adren. for example level 1 you can use booster at 75 adren, level 2 you can use booster at 50 adren etc.

Idea 2: change the Teleporter artifact to be useful. Make it cost less adren, make it spawn you at a ghost respawn point, and possibly make it faster to use. This would enforce the backline fighter mentality, and help low level AMs more than high level AMs.