Possible upgrades to certain weapons

There are a number of magic weapon types which are not much use. If people get them, the first chance they get they will throw them away and get a better one.
My list would be:

Penetrating

Sturdy

Force

Reflection
and the following are not favourite:

Knockback

Luck

Note that this does not include the 'no-magic' weapon. That is in to stay.

So, how about:

The Sturdy weapon does not really make use of the +. Why not add countershove to the weapon, the countershove level being set by the +? Could be a nice weapon on certain maps

Get rid of the penetrating weapon. Or at least up its damage. Or if you want a really good weapon, combine it with vorpal. As it is, it is not very useful

Combine force and knockback into one weapon. It sort of makes sense that if a projectile is going faster it will have increased momentum.

Add retaliation to the reflection weapon?

And while we are at it, we could make the Luck weapon spawn shields of 40 rather than 50, so they stack. Unless we want to leave shield upping to Engineers.

These are just ideas. I am sure there will be others.

It all depends whether we want some magic weapon types to be far superior to others, or whether we want greater flexibility and choice. So the preferred choice depends more on the map and your circumstances, rather than 'is it vorpal?'.
We do not have to do anything - the weapons work as they are. But perhaps we should at least discuss it to see.

I once asked someone to rank the various catagories of "magic" as they apply to the weapons in order of strongest to weakest, i.e penetrating vs piercing and so on. It would help all players to know the relative ranking of each magic catagory.

penetrating from what i understand is of no real use in player vs monster games...how ever with player vs player games ..the penetrating can go through one player and hit another( form what i understand) which is great for those multiple kills shots..or minis in crowded rooms

-Jason_x- wrote:

penetrating from what i understand is of no real use in player vs monster games...how ever with player vs player games ..the penetrating can go through one player and hit another( form what i understand) which is great for those multiple kills shots..or minis in crowded rooms

penetrating actually goes through both players and monsters. I think vortex proved it on his server, and I've seen it go through monsters myself. So if there's lots of monsters in a crowd, penetrating is useful. I mostly use the penetrating LG. You know, for those times when somebody steps in front of a nali. You can just shoot right through them

.

The only 2 I don't like is the Force and knockback. All the other ones have there little uses. It would be nice to bump up their usefulness though.

Penetrating weapons are rather useless. Most people do toss those.

Sturdy weapons are (for obvious reasons) only usefull where falling off the map is a concern. It could go away and I wouldn't shed a tear.

As for the other four you mention:

Reflecting - this has become, IMO, perhaps one of the most useful weapons in the game. It borders on "must have" for me in terms of which weapons I will try to make or keep if I pick one up. The number of enemies that this weapon is effective against (primarily defensively) is quite large. From skaarj to krall, to queens, a maxed out reflecting weapon can save your butt and to some extent make you nearly invincible on certain waves. I'm not sure we need to tinker with this one. Adding retaliation might make it a bit overpowered.

Force - meh.....the only time I may keep a force weapon is if it is a flak or link, and it helps if they are maxed when I pick 'em up. A force link is pretty handy for taking out titans in mass quantities. Flak ain't bad either. Other than that, I don't use them much.

Knockback - similar to the sturdy weaps. Only usefull on maps where knocking monsters off the edge is possible (Spacenoxx, Megawoot, Romra...etc.) I use it very rarely, but I do use it.

Luck - luck weapons become less usefull the higher level you are. Honestly the only thing I ever actually like about luck weaps are the shields they spawn. If they spawned, say, a +5 adren pickup, or a +25 health pickup, then I'd consider them more valuable.

I'm worried we're creeping through the early stages of damage disease.

At this point, making anything more powerful - anything about the monsters OR the players - needs very, very careful and cautious consideration.

That's my $0.02 on this...I got nothin' to say on the weapons.

Honestly knockback is easily my favorite weapon for shock or flak.

As for the others the suggestions don't really bother me either way (as long as I can still get a knockback)

I agree that if I end up with a penatrating or a lucky or force, I will try my best to change it if I am able to get a mwm, or if another player offers a better one.

I like the knockback alot, esp. on space type maps, so my vote, if I had any, would be to keep it around.

Personally I like sturdy LG's. It helps quite a bit when you've got skaarj swarming around you.

I'm all for eliminating penetrating weapons. And according to the RPG FAQ,

Shots fired by this weapon go through any players they hit (like the zoom instagib beam does).
NOTE: This does not apply to monsters, only to human players.

Is this an error?

The only weapon type I wouldn't mind seeing modified is reflecting. Could it reflect poison queen webs? (or at least have a chance at ignoring the damage)

As mentioned, each magical weapon has it's usefullness, depending on the map. a combo sturdy/knockback would be the ultimate on a fall map. Knock the monsters back when you cannot be done to yourself.

But as in past threads about usefulness of weapons and team damage and such, it's up to the player to utilize what he/she is given to its best advantage, and is part of the dificulty/challenge of the game.

New combo weapons would be a fresh concept, but not entirely neccessary.

As for the lucky weapons.. they only start to get usefull at +5. Thats when the sheilds and the occasional DD appear more often, along with better damage.

yeah lcuks are good when they drop DD on maps with out it..

...and for shields...aaand a liiil bits of adren..(if its a 7 )..

reflecting is great too..cept for medics..( cus you cant heal someone holding reflecting cus it 'reflects' their healing maybe that can be fixed first?..)

as for knockbacks...even on some none dropp of maps those are greeat ..(unless you accidentally knockback a titan onto ZOG...:/....still srry bout that..).. but tis great for pushing those titans and queens out fo your ways as you try to make a break for the exit..(emphasis on try)

as for force....what does it do again? give more damage ? or something? i mean ive never noticed much diff with it from just the equiv normal flak +?...(then again ive only rlly ever gotten 1 or 2 force weps..)

and for penetrating..im not against or for them..im just sayin that when occasionally we play P vs P..that its pretty good (especially when they line up for ya..

..)

Force weapons shoot the projectiles faster...

I don't use the lucky weapons much with any character, as for sturdy and knockback I say you leave them, I use them both on fall-off and non fall-off maps.

Penetrating: doesn't really matter to me, but I think i've seen a penetrating shock go through titans...or maybe they missed..I dunno

ECHO wrote:

Personally I like sturdy LG's. It helps quite a bit when you've got skaarj swarming around you.

I'm all for eliminating penetrating weapons. And according to the RPG FAQ,

Shots fired by this weapon go through any players they hit (like the zoom instagib beam does).
NOTE: This does not apply to monsters, only to human players.

Is this an error?

The only weapon type I wouldn't mind seeing modified is reflecting. Could it reflect poison queen webs? (or at least have a chance at ignoring the damage)

Vortex said he made a null/penetrating shock and was able to see lines of monsters being nulled(or something of the sort). It's buried in the forums someplace.

Also, when I shoot a penetrating LG at a monster while I'm side stepping, I can see it go through. It actually looks like it has a slightly different trajectory and makes an extra zapping sound.

So, the faq is wrong. It's been wrong for long time

....
make you wonder ..what ELSE cud they have gotten wrong..

..
(yeah im just being stupid..)

Fro13 wrote:

Also, when I shoot a penetrating LG at a monster while I'm side stepping, I can see it go through. It actually looks like it has a slightly different trajectory and makes an extra zapping sound.

No stop it Fro! You're gonna make me spend all my time MWM-ing a penetrating shock just to try this out!