Multi-block structures

Wonko The Sane wrote:

...I'd get rid of:
- small block (Too similar to a block and I am not seeing many people use small ones anyway. Yes, I know, sometimes a small one fits where a normal does not. Not a big deal.)
- wall (This is such a simple structure that you can easily build it with blocks yourself.)
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- I'd also take out the toilet seat car. Its fun though. :]

Here is another thought that would take away 3 more artifacts and would be more usefull (but probobly hard to implement): Take away the four kill artifacts and replace it with one "kill at point" artifact. It kills your stuff (vehicles, buidlings, turrets and sents) at the pointed location (using something like mine layer alt fire laser, especially if we are getting that ML anyway or make it GL alt fire). I often just want to move one of my sents to another location, but have to kill both of them, build one in the same place it was before and than build another elsewhere.

I somehow don't manage to write a short post.

Hmm...2 things Id like to disagree with here...
[list] Small blocks-> I often will summon a wall and what not ..telefrag one block and replace it with small block....why?..Cus it still give cover..btu the size makes it easier for ppl to get in and out fo the base..which i find is ESSENTIAL when fleeing that horde of warlords..
Not to mention the fact that some doors and what not are to short for large blocks so thus[/list]

2ndly we arnt necessarily getting that mine layer and gL wonko...it was an old post with idea..some ideas i liked so i brought it back up..HOWEVER a kill one thing is useful.....If that idea isnt applicable as is...perhaps jsut a 'kill oldest construct' artifact...its ebtter than nothing...especially when you summon ur sent in wrong place due to being 'pushed' by a skaarj just as u fire and summon..o.0

Ps I believe you meant jut normal nest wall..high nest wall is at higher lvl...(or w/e the name of artifact..)

I agree with :

Removal of the 'normal 'wall.....it can be easily built by summoning a high wall and telefragging the 2 top blocks..and if the space is too small the top blocks wont summon anyways...so it all works out....or removal of high wall..one or the other IMO (cus it can go to high wall too..both ways)

ALSO We do have alot of artifact...unforuntely thats the other classes aside form WM work..they rely on artifacts mostly..AM has alot...MM can have alot (if they have monsters quite a bit..o.0..) So key to any of the classes but the WM is to have an effective way of going through the artifacts...also memorizing the layout helps too liek at point it loops..like so u dont go 10 left for somthing thats 5 right...(Is it me or did that sound like crosswords? )

I agree about the toleit cars..fun..hard to drive..no clearance...no fire power cept running over with a very narrow front area
So yeah....I also have probs with short posts it seems..

..maybe we should form a rehabilitation group o_o..

Szlat wrote:

....One more - a four-sided wall.

Oooooh..sweeet!

...cant wait for 90..o_o..

Szlat wrote:

Sentinels - 6 is too many. I like the ceiling ones, but if it is an open map, they are useless. So, if we were to keep 3, which 3?....

Hmmm is there a way so that if u had 'lighting sent'..depending on which is closer..the ceiling or the floor it would summon there? I already see engis throwing their trans to hit the ceiling so they get the right post...so itd take minimal amt of tim to get used to..

Szlat wrote:

Walls. I threw in 6 possible structures just to get people thinking about it. I agree let's get rid of the less useful, but there may be other structures we haven't thought of that could work well e.g. stairs, or an arch/gallows structure that could support a ceiling sentinel on an open map. I think this may increase in the short term before getting reduced to a final list.
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Small Block - I agree, let's get rid of it. Do we still need the Block artifact, or do we only let people spawn structures?...

Sounds interesting..BUT i KNOW pll use the blocks..if not the small blocks...to add that on more block to the top of the their wall..or to block the sides...make a small 2ndary wall..etc....I believe the block is sued quite a bit....espically if one block in wall gets blown out..why summon a new wall when one block will work? Its like patch work..

Szlat wrote:

...
high nested wall (Nested wall alredy gives you enough protection and also lets you shoot over it, the high one is too high for shooting and offers minimal bonus in terms of protection. Its a "I am gonna take that phonecall" wall.)

The idea was a bit more aerial protection against warlords. Plus, if a low level block gets taken out, I think the upper blocks drop to fill it (if I remember right). But I agree with you - not necessary.
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Oooooh I get it now...... but the curve wall alone can work..

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Szlat wrote:

I like this concept. And it would be very easy to implement - I would not put a requirement on a weapon, just take out what you are looking at - like the lightning beam. However, at the moment, if you spawn a vehicle and someone pinches it, you can destroy it. In this scenario, you would still have to be in eye-shot of it. But I think that is ok.

ooh ooh! make it red.....*ppl stare at jason...*..what.....I like red..

...(not to mention ..destroy artifacts are all red..even for medics...btw..very nice...

....make it much easier to not accidentally kill them..

Szlat wrote:

Or do I need a more radical approach of having 4 spawn artifacts, one for each type, and having some form of sub-menu that selects which particular item you want?

... Hmm....
Sound interesting..Id require ALOT more skill to use than other artifacts...so like one for summon sent..1 for ceiling lightning ...2 for lightning...3 for ceiling def...u get the jist...
but something similar to that of the voice menu could work...Dont know how difficult itd be to use
Oooh..Also if this idea is implemented..u could have it if you just hit that eon artifact 2x it summons the highest one...like...sent will summon a floor/ceiling sent..(depends which is better In your opinion..)..

but yeah.....

Why Cant I post short..

..lol..

Szlat wrote:

And it would be very easy to implement - I would not put a requirement on a weapon, just take out what you are looking at - like the lightning beam. However, at the moment, if you spawn a vehicle and someone pinches it, you can destroy it. In this scenario, you would still have to be in eye-shot of it. But I think that is ok.

I think that would be neat!

No need for 4 artifacts and complicated menus in my opinion.

Regarding the sents, thats a tough choice.
I'd cheat a little and narrow them down to 4:
- ceiling defense (its much more usefull there, although that means no defense in open maps)
- floor lighting (because on open huge maps light is better because of better range)
- both normals (I couldn't live without those :])

I like Jason's idea better, I am building my ceiling sents with a trans in air alredy. So if it spawns on what is closer, I'd be OK. And you'd still have only 3 artifacts.

As for buildings:
- a building/arch with a ceiling that allows ceiling sents: I thought you can't plant a sent on block/structure? (isn't it map geometry only now? which is reasonable in my opinion)
- I think a lone block has its uses
- I'd keep 2 more structures only, both similar in design (holes to shoot thru, no ceilings) but different sizes. Something like a tall wall and curved wall now
- I really can't think of a situation where stairs would come handy. I have bad imagination though.

hmm...stairs...stairs..well...I built make shift ' stairs' myself with a block and small block..to make hopping over the wall easier..for humans..(since not many of the monsters can figure out how to hop 3 times consecutively..)
But I can see how steps could be usefull...ish..

Not to be leading off topic but what about teleporters similar to those on faceclassic..seasons..etc..?..one that have base and 2 way teleporting..(or do those have 'teamkilling' smeared all over them?..o.0..)

But by knocking off 3 of the sent icons ..should reduce it to that equal of equivalent medics with summoning..they manage well....it takes time i guess to get used to?
Or you can bind the most freq used stuff....reminds me..of off topic note of the shield blast bind not working..?..anyways..

Wonko The Sane wrote:

- a building/arch with a ceiling that allows ceiling sents: I thought you can't plant a sent on block/structure? (isn't it map geometry only now? which is reasonable in my opinion)

You can't at the moment, but it could be changed to allow blocks as well. However, people could spawn the blocks, spawn the sentinel, destroy the blocks to leave a floating sentinel - so probably not a good idea.

Wonko The Sane wrote:

- I really can't think of a situation where stairs would come handy. I have bad imagination though.

How about on gametypes where you haven't got a trans?

-Jason_x- wrote:

Szlat wrote:

Sentinels - 6 is too many. I like the ceiling ones, but if it is an open map, they are useless. So, if we were to keep 3, which 3?....

Hmmm is there a way so that if u had 'lighting sent'..depending on which is closer..the ceiling or the floor it would summon there? I already see engis throwing their trans to hit the ceiling so they get the right post...so itd take minimal amt of tim to get used to..

I like that idea - much better than a sub-menu.
EDIT:except at the moment, server managers can decide what sentinels they want configured in - so they can choose if they want the ceiling or floor variants. This way they would have to have both or none.

Thanks..

Question from me is it easy to code..? Ive got no idea how hard it is.....seems..rational to me..

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But heh..so do bombs..

...lol..

It defiantly take some getting used to for some players...(cus ud have to press use right b4 it hits the ceiling..) not mention if it is too late it may summon ON THEM..:/...crushing =bad..Trust me..Ive done it to oft with blocks..

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Btw do blocks no longer crush...? I see blocks landing on monsters and not killing them..same with players (thank goodness)

As for both or none..It is only a suggestion if they decided on certain types tid reduce numbers still which is the whole point right?..I dont see much lost..but then again Im just a player not a coder..

My ENG is level 69 (almost 70) and looking forward to spawning two sentinels!!

I vote to lose the High Nested Wall for the same reasons already listed. The only reason to build it is if you need a place to take a nap. You can't shoot out and if you build it so that you can shoot out then the bad guys can probably shoot in.

I think my favorite so far is the High Wall. I like to trans out the bottom middle block and it makes a perfect doorway. How about an L shaped wall that could be placed in a corner? What about a structure that is designed to surround a floor mounted sentinel? I've seen ENG's do this anyway to protect a sentinel.

The TC-1200 while funny at first is useless after the novelty wears off. As for me (although I'm sure others will disagree) all vehicles could go. I can even spawn a Paladin and it is too big and slow to be of much use. I mainly spawn one now and then so others can play with them.

I also vote to keep the single blocks as they are useful many times where a bigger structure won't fit. When can I use the Square Wall that is in my menu? It won't let me build that one yet.

One final thought, how about a personal use defense artifact that uses adren like a rod. This would make the player himself help with defense just by standing in a group. Not sure what to do about scoring or Exp points though.

Thanks for all the hard work.....

Z0G wrote:

When can I use the Square Wall that is in my menu? It won't let me build that one yet.

LE14 player level 80

before you remove stuff has this been tested pvp because some of it might be very broken and would probably want to be removed first.

Good point...but we havent played..much pvp...though i think engis would pwn on ONS maps..

....with regen and all..build walls around their nodes..
And VCTF with the new sents and walls..

Acutally when i think about tis been a while since last pvp map...

So I have implemented spawning a floor sentinel or ceiling sentinel depending on which the trans is closest to. I'll stick in cvs later.

Thinking about the suggestion for replacing the 4 'destroy all summoned' artifacts with just one 'destroy what you are looking at' artifact. Coding it isn't really a problem, so adding the new artifact is ok. However, I am not sure we can remove the other artifacts:

On other threads it has been noted that sometimes when you spawn stuff, it doesn't spawn on the surface you expect and can spawn the other side of it. So you might not be able to get to the spawned item

If you ghost, you may end up on the other side of a big map. At the moment, you delete you existing sentinels and re-summon them next to you. You do not want to have to go completely across the map to delete them

If someone else spawns something on top of your sentinel (e.g. block or hellbender) you may no longer be able to see it. Or if that room is suddenly filled with 10 titans, you may not want to go back in just to remove your turret

So, I am not convinced we can get rid of the 'destroy all' artifacts. And I am not convinced we need yet another Engineer artifact, so I think I am putting this one on hold for a while.

What about destroy vehicle artifact?....Is that entirely necessary..cus when you leave ur vehicles ti either..a) gets destroyed quickly...b) u left it cus it was destroyed...c) vehicles isnt going to help running like crazy will...

Also....well..You lose 3 artifacts..(ie for closest surface for sents..) and you gain 1 more...so its till some progress on number reduction..

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Szlat wrote:

On other threads it has been noted that sometimes when you spawn stuff, it doesn't spawn on the surface you expect and can spawn the other side of it. So you might not be able to get to the spawned item

If you ghost, you may end up on the other side of a big map. At the moment, you delete you existing sentinels and re-summon them next to you. You do not want to have to go completely across the map to delete them

If someone else spawns something on top of your sentinel (e.g. block or hellbender) you may no longer be able to see it. Or if that room is suddenly filled with 10 titans, you may not want to go back in just to remove your turret

I agree, there are certain situations, which could cause problems with "kill at point" artifact only. Those situations are very rare, but they happen. How about "kill at point" artifact plus "kill everything I have" artifact. This would still mean 2 artifacts less, you'd still be able to kill just one specific sentinel that you want to replace or move and in those rare troublesome situations you could still save the day by destroying everything you have spawned (I mean, in most cases this means 1 or 2 sents and one block structure. Not much different from "kill my sents" anyway).

I agree that just adding "kill at point" artifact to the four others is a bad idea.

I disagree wonko.."Kill everything" Crossed my mind..( Why does that sound so evil...

..jk..

..)......
BUT...What about those engineers who want to move their sents...but have a structure that is forming a base?...hed destroy his base...and the monsters flood in and BOOM!! death funnel.....(heh..death funnel..its liek my catch phrase..wait no drifting!..)

Point being destroy all mite be bad to replace..idea is good in addtion but not alone...

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