monsters caps DR and DB

hey!

why not cap monsters DR and DB, so for example when a high level (lets say desert) is alone and all noobs are out, the DR and DB are set according to a 320 (more or less) so DR and DB matches the level of in which characters archive all the skills and feats (i belive is arround 320)

so monsters wont be over that top, players can kill high level monsters, and high level monsters can kill characters..

after super high level players are the same in every way to a just made maxed character.. am i right?¿

I thought this was a Disastrous Consequences server? A high level player all alone will lose the map. That's sortof a cool punishment/consequence it's like saying "This is what you get for being a high level"

I say keep it as it is. All these extra configurations are making the server easier and easier. Sure I think subclasses are great. However capping the db and dr will make us win every map-no more challenges unless we become more like the other servers and use bosses. DC is the ONLY server in which I like best. Nobody copies our server nor we copy anybody else.
I'm pretty sure the other servers use that method.....( capping the monsters db and dr---just not sure of what servers use it)

So whats the deal to be a high lv player if gets weak??? makes nonsense to me, It would be nice to change the mobs DR/Db according to the high lvl player that is on solo mode.

Maybe it should factor in the number of players alive along with the lowest level.

This would increase the challenge for when the server is full, but give the last player a fighting chance.

greg11 wrote:

Maybe it should factor in the number of players alive along with the lowest level.

This would increase the challenge for when the server is full, but give the last player a fighting chance.

I did propose a reworking of the DB/DR stuff a while back - so the high level players would have it more difficult than now with a low level on, but easier than now when by themselves. But the general feeling was negative. The high levels didn't want to be capped at all.
And if the high levels don't want it any worse, you can bet the low levels dont.

Szlat wrote:

greg11 wrote:

Maybe it should factor in the number of players alive along with the lowest level.

This would increase the challenge for when the server is full, but give the last player a fighting chance.

I did propose a reworking of the DB/DR stuff a while back - so the high level players would have it more difficult than now with a low level on, but easier than now when by themselves. But the general feeling was negative. The high levels didn't want to be capped at all.
And if the high levels don't want it any worse, you can bet the low levels dont.

Szlat, please calculate the monster DB/DR for Desert and I since we are presently the only two players over 600. These numbers might make some of the 100+ players realize why we oftentimes cannot win when we are the sole survivor in the map.

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Szlat, please calculate the monster DB/DR for Desert and I since we are presently the only two players over 600. These numbers might make some of the 100+ players realize why we oftentimes cannot win when we are the sole survivor in the map.

The monsters get set to a level of 25% of the lowest level player, plus double the wave number.
So for a level 600, if he is the only one left, the monsters max at (600/4)+(16*2) = 182.

All the points they split between DR and DB, so they have 182*3.5 = 637 DB and 637 DR.

So, piercing weapons will do normal damage. Other magical weapons will do at least 15% damage, as that is a minimum (e.g. Vorpals do 30%). A normal weapon will do one damage per hit.

Artifacts like the rod, beam,bolt are classified as superweapons, and so bypass DB/DR calculations.

The monsters will be doing 1 + (637-50)/200 = nearly four times damage against you.
So for example a warlord rocket instead of doing 70 damage will do close to 280.

Note that once a player gets to around level 160, if he is the only one left, his attack on wave 16 is 1+(80-250)/200 = 0.15, meaning he only does 15% damage. From this point on his attack damage doesn't really change, as the cap at 15% minimum steps in. But the damage against him continues to increase.

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

why not cap monsters DR and DB, so for example when a high level (lets say desert) is alone and all noobs are out, the DR and DB are set according to a 320 (more or less) so DR and DB matches the level of in which characters archive all the skills and feats (i belive is arround 320)

so monsters wont be over that top, players can kill high level monsters, and high level monsters can kill characters..

after super high level players are the same in every way to a just made maxed character.. am i right?¿

For doing damage to monsters, a level 320 player is exactly the same as a level 600 player.

The difference is in damage done by the monster to the player.
The monster against a level 600 player does nearly 4 times damage.
Against a level 320 player, the monster does 1+(392-50)/200 , or around 2.7 times damage. Easy!!

However, also bear in mind that a level 5 player with zero DB/DR has to cope against level 33 monsters with 116 DB/DR, so the monster gets to do 1.6 times damage against the player, and the player only does less than half damage against the monsters.

So the ratio "damage by monster" to "damage by player" is 3.76 (1.58/0.42) for the level 5. Assuming the level 600 has a piercing weapon, which still does +30% damage, the ratio is 4/1.3 = 3.
So level 600s with a piercing have it easier than a level 5. And that is ignoring the benefits that the level 600 gets from his abilities (e.g. damage reduction) and stats like weapon speed and health.
Without a piercing, the ratio for the level 600s is around 20 to 25, which is a touch more difficult.

However, I think the level is closer to 400 before you can guarantee the Medic/MonsterMaster class being maxed. And that goes up to 436 for some subclasses.

well i always though the level when you max every character is 300 ish--

but well when you put formula and stuff into the mix i must belive you

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

well i always though the level when you max every character is 300 ish--

Take Ton80 as an example. He currently is level 554, with 1480 points left to spend, which means he has spent the points for 342 levels. However, he has not bought retaliation or countershove, which would cost an extra 57 levels, bringing him to 399 levels of points spendable.

Clone-Engineer wrote:

I thought this was a Disastrous Consequences server? A high level player all alone will lose the map. That's sortof a cool punishment/consequence it's like saying "This is what you get for being a high level"

I say keep it as it is. All these extra configurations are making the server easier and easier. Sure I think subclasses are great. However capping the db and dr will make us win every map-no more challenges unless we become more like the other servers and use bosses. DC is the ONLY server in which I like best. Nobody copies our server nor we copy anybody else.
I'm pretty sure the other servers use that method.....( capping the monsters db and dr---just not sure of what servers use it)

Being a high level alone on a map does not guarantee a loss. I just finished Killbilly by myself the other day when you were playing. Killbilly is, IMO, a tough map to finish solo in the first place.

Having said that, finishing a map as a solo player at a high level without a piercing weapon is nearly impossible. But it also depends on other variables such as the current wave, type of monsters left, number of monsters left, what class the player is, map being played, etc. Having a lightning rod and adren helps in place of a piercing weapon.

Don't get me wrong, I die plenty of times if I'm soloing it on high waves even with a piercing weapon. I fair much better with a piercing RL or Flak, for example, because they do heavy damage and have great splash effects when surrounded by mobs.

I don't mind it being very tough to finish a game solo. I would, however, like to see us increase the percentage chance to pick up/create a piercing weapon. I've noticed that certain times, I can spend 1000's of adren points thoughout the entire match trying to create a piercing weapon and never make even one. In addition, it seems that in matches where I have this problem, other players have it too. Not sure if it is coded that way, or if it is sheer coincidence, but it seems kind of odd. I forget how the percentages work for making magical weapons. I know that you have a 33% chance of creating a magical weapon period, but isn't there another subset breakdown percentage for each type of magical weapon created?

I always hand out piercing weapons to anyone who wants a copy, especially to other high levels. Because if there are only high levels left, the monsters will still be just as tough.

In any case, if we make a change, I'd go with just bumping up the chance to make a piercing weapon.

33% chance of having a magic weapon.
Chance of a Piercing is 2 in 35.

Did we ever change that percentage for piercing weapons after the triple/piercing combo was removed? If not, then I would feel even more strongly about bumping it up a bit.

I would guess that the chance was originally set so low to limit the ability to use such a devastating combo?

The percentage chance of each weapon type is purely for Druid and Shantara to decide.

I have no idea what the original reasoning was behind which weapons had what popularity. But there are 19 weapon types, so the piercing is slightly above average.

Personally, I have stated many times before that the +30% damage on top of the piercing ability makes the piercing weapon too powerful.

My weapon master is only level 250sh, and I gotta say that 2.7 damage taken certainly does not feel "easy" nor it is "easy" to kill anymonster when you don't have piercing weapons and you're the only one alive. No piercing weapons for even my character ensures certain death even with full adrenaline and perhaps a globe. I think this needs to change.

I agree that monsters should be harder to kill as you acquire more skills but not IMPOSSIBLE to kill them as you get higher in level as it is now.

Including Retaliation and counter shove and some other "useless" skills in invasion and thinking they will help in your score, kill more monsters or survivability of your character because it's been maxed is a little misleading. My weapon master like I said before is lvl 258 or so. I have no more useful skills to buy that can help me score higher or make me more powerful. I yet have to buy retal, countershove, awareness, shield, smart healing, cautiousness, etc etc. So we can even say that weapon master's effectiveness plateaus around this level. So monsters should have a db/dr capped around this level as well.

How about reducing the probability of the MWM artifact from breaking too soon? Leaving everything else intact. Perhaps increasing a bit the chances of getting piercing weps as already suggested as another alternative?