New Gametype Possibility/Discussion - IronMan RPG Invasion

From an idea that was proposed in the AM thread by Szlat here.

Szlat wrote:

One way to get more team play would be to introduce a new game type - IronMan RPG invasion.

# Give 2000xp per person for winning the map
# Enable IronMan mode - so if you lose you get nothing - not even the xp from kills
# Make the monsters more difficult

So people can vote for the normal invasion, or can vote for this - where the rewards can be good, but without team play you all die. And the difficulty would be set so that even with good team play you only win at most one in two.

Elite wrote:

Good idea, but not that good in the other hand. Cuz what if a good player finds a way to survive and kill them all off on his own which would be kinda selfish, anything is possible all it involves is strategy... Then the teamplay would be kinda redundant while the survivor or the one with the most skill gets all the kills. Any thoughts?

Szlat wrote:

The new gametype was just an off the cuff thought, and really ought to have been in a separate thread. But all players would get xp at the end if anyone survived. If only survivors got xp, then people naturally would put their own survival above team play.

And I think you are right in that a skillful player and the correct strategies will make a big difference. But if for instance some of the other players are just focusing on surviving to keep the monster level low, and others are trying to heal and enhance that player as much as possible, then it would help a lot.

Trooper wrote:

I like the ironmode idea but I agree that the xp from killing everything would be a problem... so here's my suggestion... cut all monster damage and monster killing XP by half. that would make it so you get much less xp for killing and much more for surviving

Trooper wrote:

modify my idea a little... ironmode only gives XP to those alive... but make it something like 500 xp per person alive. if there is 10 people alive, 5000 xp per person. if its just them... they get 500... whoopty freaken do.... keep your friends alive and you get more xp!

Lt. Crumpet wrote:

@Trooper's idea: That would reward higher level players who dont need the xp, and hurt lower level player who have a very small chance of being alive at the end of wave 16, teamwork or not.

Dracos wrote:

Modifying Trooper's Idea. Same 500xp per person alive. However, all members on the team whether alive or dead get that value. I mean isnt the current ironman the way where as long as 1 person makes it through the match the entire team does not lose all the XP gained regardless who's left alive.

Example.
6 people playing, Map is potentially worth 3000xp for winning. If all players die at any time, entire round is worth 0 and all xp gained from kills is reset.

Players make it to wave 16. 4 people die due to low levels, bad breaks, etc. Last 2 are able to complete the map. Entire Team (all 6 players) gain 1000 xp for winning on top of what they got for kills.

The thing that would need balancing is the the xp gain. Obvisouly it has to be a good bit higher then what Normal Invasion gains (what like 2k) since theres a possiblity of everyone dying and 0 xp gained for the entire match including the kills. Any levels gained are lost, etc. But the bonus is you take a 12 man match and have all 12 survive wave 16, everyone will gain 6000xp + 1-2k from kills.

Anyone see what I'm saying here.

This way this idea has its own thread.

like draco's idea there.... though discussion elsewhere suggests lowering it to 100 or so from the 500 I suggested

edit: different idea... same but for each wave, not just at the end of the map. say 10 xp for wave 1... 20 for wave 2... etc to 160 for wave 16 but only to those alive

I like the per wave idea opposed to the end of match xp
that way it encourages higher level players to help lower level players survive in later more valuable waves, not just in the final wave.
and it still allows them to play a style which is aggressive earlier on to build "momentum" (adren/weapons) so they can prepare for later waves.

I can see people dropping in and out to get xp being a possible problem with the end of game/wave xp.

reducing xp for kills, and makes sense as well

my 2 cents

I think the ironman mode would be fun.
I think we should look at the ironman code already implemented in ut2004rpg.
http://mysterial.linuxgangster.org/UTRPG/UT2004RPGChangelist.html

Added Ironman mode. If activated, only the winning player/team's data is saved - losers lose the EXP they gained that match (NOTE: In Invasion, players that leave the server midway still get their data saved if the remaining players win)

This way players still get their fair share of xp, but all will have to work together to make sure the map is won.
All players (still online) get 100-2000xp (depending on what Druid thinks it should be) for winning the map plus each individual player (even the ones not online) get to keep the exp they earned during the map.

The key here is that there is no coding required, it is already implemented, just needs to be activated.

liked, might sounds like a newbie question but what stop me from
start the map with my WM then change to LA, Engi and Medic and if we win i earn all the points in all clases for wining the map

well you wouldn't be able to. it only would do it for those IN the server at the time the map ENDS.... you would only get it once

Trooper wrote:

well you wouldn't be able to. it only would do it for those IN the server at the time the map ENDS.... you would only get it once

but you will get the exp you earned for each class if the map is won.

why? if I join on my junkie and then come back in on my medic, I don't get the 80 xp at the end if we win on my junkie.... only on my medic

Players make it to wave 16. 4 people die due to low levels, bad breaks, etc. Last 2 are able to complete the map. Entire Team (all 6 players) gain 1000 xp for winning on top of what they got for kills.

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

Players make it to wave 16. 4 people die due to low levels, bad breaks, etc. Last 2 are able to complete the map. Entire Team (all 6 players) gain 1000 xp for winning on top of what they got for kills.

That's basically what I was thinking of, and it was based on the concept of the UT2004RPG IronMan mode.
If you do not complete wave 16, everybody scores zero xp - including zero for damage.
If you complete wave 16, everybody gets xp for damage, according to how much damage they have done, and everybody still playing (dead or alive) gets a bonus - possibly 1000xp, possibly 2000xp, possibly more - depending on how hard we make the monsters.

we may need to scale the bonus according to how many waves the player has been in - so someone in for 16 waves possibly should get more than someone who joined at wave 16

people who left get no bonus, but do get xp for their damage when wave 16 is completed.

Or we could go for a shorter 10 wave more intense wave configuration rather than the existing 16 wave configuration - so the game is shorter. We know on certain maps there is little chance of getting wiped out before wave 12.

Szlat wrote:

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

Players make it to wave 16. 4 people die due to low levels, bad breaks, etc. Last 2 are able to complete the map. Entire Team (all 6 players) gain 1000 xp for winning on top of what they got for kills.
That's basically what I was thinking of, and it was based on the concept of the UT2004RPG IronMan mode.
If you do not complete wave 16, everybody scores zero xp - including zero for damage.
If you complete wave 16, everybody gets xp for damage, according to how much damage they have done, and everybody still playing (dead or alive) gets a bonus - possibly 1000xp, possibly 2000xp, possibly more - depending on how hard we make the monsters.

we may need to scale the bonus according to how many waves the player has been in - so someone in for 16 waves possibly should get more than someone who joined at wave 16

people who left get no bonus, but do get xp for their damage when wave 16 is completed.

Or we could go for a shorter 10 wave more intense wave configuration rather than the existing 16 wave configuration - so the game is shorter. We know on certain maps there is little chance of getting wiped out before wave 12.

I actually like the less then 16 waves idea. I figure the winning value should be about the same amount as your average player gains in a full game. Isnt that around 1200 or so. I know for me on my Eng in a full game with about 700-1000 score I get about another 35-50% of that in terms of xp gained from non killing damage. Basically winning the game effectivly doubles the xp gained from damage/kills.

So if your average player gains 1250 xp from kills and damage per map, then for winning the map, the net xp gain would be 2500.

With a bit lower number of waves for faster games. Id say a value around 1000 to 1500 would be just about right (depending on the monster spread).

For the monster spread with say a 10 or 12 wave spread, you would need to have at least 2 or 3 waves of the easier type (like nows 1-5) to allow the getting of weapons, handing out of weapons, and preparedness of a possible base in some maps.

Current waves 15 and 16 are pretty fine on thier own and can easily be the last 2 waves. I would think there would only be room for 1 titan wave and would prob recommend the current wave 14 to be the wave or 2 prior to those 2.

Waves 2,3 and 4/5 can easily be the basis of waves 1,2 and 3 in the Ironman shortened version.

Just my bit of input.

Okay all this talk about the ironman mode seems pretty fun... but when was the last time you actually saw Druid approve something or disprove something. What I'm trying to say is who knows when it will come to Druid's mind to log on and then approve this, the last time i saw him log on or post a message was a 5 months ago so who knows when he'll come back and read all this.