Exp for defense sentinel

I think many engineers tend to use offensive sentinels instead of the defense sentinel for the fact that they don't get exp for using the def sent.
The def sent is a group support ability just like spheres.
Some may argue that it gives the engineer a chance to stay alive longer thus get more exp by killing. In reality, other players tend to hang out in the engineer base and killing all of the monsters while benefiting from the def sent provided. Of course this is how it should be, the engineer is a support type class and should support other players, but I think he should benefit from the support.
What I propose is that the def sent earn exp for each projectile destroyed times the number of players within its radius.
The base exp earned should be a fraction of a point so that the engineer would earn about .5 exp point per second destroying projectiles at its max rate and 20 players in the radius.

I think the minimimum TimeBetweenShots = .4 secs (going by the default in the class and a wep speed of 50) This comes to 2.5 shots per second
so if we want .5 exp/sec: .5/20/2.5=.01000

Rarely would we see 20 players in the range of the defsent. I think on a good day there would really be no more than 10 players in one base.

I don't think this will make the engineers any more powerful...if anything it would reduce their power. I can get about 5 exp/sec sometimes with a regular sentinel. And lightning sents tend to steal kills.

I haven't really thought of it in this context before, but I suppose you are right - a def sentinel is working like a sphere in that it provides exactly the same benefit for everyone.

If we were to give xp, I agree with the concept of doing it per projectile. You couldn't just give it on a timer - it has to be doing something.
Looking at your suggested xp rate, the maximum would be 0.5 xp per sec, which would be 900xp per map, assuming 30 mins. This is too high, but I doubt if it will ever be achieved.
A lot of the time, there are only 4-8 people playing, so in a base you would typically get at most one player on the easy waves, and 3-4 on the difficult waves. So, assuming a generous 4 players for the last 8 waves would give 0.01*4*2.5 = 0.1xp per second, or 90xp for the last 8 waves.
However, we are also assuming 2.5 projectiles taken out per second. I think an average of one per second may be more reasonable.
So, is 36xp going to tempt someone to put down a defense sentinel rather than an offensive one?

So, I am not necessarily sure about basing xp on the number of people. For one thing, what is the area covered by the sentinel? The sentinel has a range, but it is quite small. But in a doorway it will protect everyone in the room.
It is also one extra set of calculations to be done 2.5 times a second, and I am not sure it makes much difference if there are 10 or 20 people there - the sentinel did exactly the same job and took out one projectile. (The spheres are different in that the effect is given to each individual, so the reward is based on the number of individuals)

So it may be best just to base on the number of projectiles taken out.
If there are no people there, then you will not get any projectiles to take out - so that ensures no xp when not protecting.
The more people that are there, the more likely you are to get projectiles going towards them, so the def sent should be idle less, and so should give more xp (for doing more).

In terms of the amount of reward, I would have thought a typical 100-200 xp per map would be about right, with a max of around 300 xp. I know an offensive sentinel can net more than that, but I think it would be excessive to go higher. After all, it is "risk-less" xp.
So, assuming a game lasts 30mins, if a def sentinel was to take out 1 projectile per second then it will take out 1800 projectiles. Which means each projectile should give 200/1800 = 0.11 xp per projectile shot down.

However, we would also need to make sure it cannot be exploited. What is to stop someone putting a def sentinel in the busiest part of the map, just to intercept as many projectiles as possible? But it is still taking out projectiles which are aimed at players - so why shouldn't it get xp?

And for the AMs who will say "but we have to use our adrenaline to get the xp, whereas Engineers do not", instead the Engineer has to give up an offensive sentinel, and all the kills and xp that would generate. (However, as a separate issue, I am still looking for other ways that AMs can get xp for team play.)

Szlat wrote:

So, is 36xp going to tempt someone to put down a defense sentinel rather than an offensive one?

I think it would at least give players a warm fuzzy.

Szlat wrote:

So it may be best just to base on the number of projectiles taken out.
If there are no people there, then you will not get any projectiles to take out - so that ensures no xp when not protecting.
The more people that are there, the more likely you are to get projectiles going towards them, so the def sent should be idle less, and so should give more xp (for doing more).

Makes perfect sense to me.

Szlat wrote:

In terms of the amount of reward, I would have thought a typical 100-200 xp per map would be about right, with a max of around 300 xp. I know an offensive sentinel can net more than that, but I think it would be excessive to go higher. After all, it is "risk-less" xp.
So, assuming a game lasts 30mins, if a def sentinel was to take out 1 projectile per second then it will take out 1800 projectiles. Which means each projectile should give 200/1800 = 0.11 xp per projectile shot down.

I would lower it to 0.05-0.08 for the reason that:

After level 72 an engineer can spawn 2 sentinels

The lower waves go by much quicker and the later waves which involve intense projectile action last much longer.

even just getting 90 xp per map should be generous...isn't that what we get for winning the map?

It is easier to start with a lower number and raise it later if needed. (Lesson learned from running my own server)

Szlat wrote:

However, we would also need to make sure it cannot be exploited. What is to stop someone putting a def sentinel in the busiest part of the map, just to intercept as many projectiles as possible? But it is still taking out projectiles which are aimed at players - so why shouldn't it get xp?

Is 100-200 xp in 30 mins worth exploiting?
One thing that came to mind is that bug (which I think you already fixed) where the deamers were being targeted by the sent. I don't know all the details about the bug, but it seemed that it targeted it repeatedly.
Another reason to start with a lower number though.

Szlat wrote:

And for the AMs who will say "but we have to use our adrenaline to get the xp, whereas Engineers do not", instead the Engineer has to give up an offensive sentinel, and all the kills and xp that would generate. (However, as a separate issue, I am still looking for other ways that AMs can get xp for team play.)

Why not give xp for making magic weapons/max. Some games have a skill point system where using a skill frequently makes you better at that skill. Since there are no skill points here, maybe that could be a good argument to give exp for using mwm and max.
A skill point system (although more complicated) would be neat for some classes:
AMs: each artifact could have a skill level to improve the effectiveness of the artifact (mwm has a higher chance to roll higher modifiers with higher skill)
MMs: Each species of monsters can have skill levels that affect intelligence, and strength.
Engs: Each construction can have a skill level affecting the construction health
WMs: I don't know much about this class...I should probably start playing one.

One reason I use a light sent is because it gives me xp for doing nothing. I figure.... why spawn a defense sent and have to shoot things when I can have something else do it for me.... make my sent points work for me. with defense sents giving xp, I would be more likely to make a real base. normally I put a light sent where there is heavy traffic and then I sit in the corner linking it. with defense sents, I would more likely set up a turret and a defense sent and let people use the turret. that would make it more team oriented

greg11 wrote:

I would lower it to 0.05-0.08 ....

OK, so if we say 0.066, then if the sent takes out 1 projectile per second for 30 mins, then the Engineer gets 1800*0.066 = 120xp. Absolute max possible would be 300xp (2.5 per second), but I think 80-100xp would be more typical. I will add to the code, then see if Druid agrees with it.

Now, how is the action of the def sentinel stopping a projectile different to a block stopping a projectile? So, should Engineers get xp for that? No. Because the Engineer has to sacrifice an offensive sentinel to get the defensive one, whereas the block costs the Engineer nothing.

Szlat wrote:

I will add to the code, then see if Druid agrees with it.

Thank you.

Szlat wrote:

Now, how is the action of the def sentinel stopping a projectile different to a block stopping a projectile? So, should Engineers get xp for that? No. Because the Engineer has to sacrifice an offensive sentinel to get the defensive one, whereas the block costs the Engineer nothing.

That and exp for blocks can cause a conflict with players fighting over whose blocks get to be in the line of fire. Players will be destroying the blocks to put theirs in...at least a sent can't be destroyed by others, and one sent cant be setup to destroy all of the projectiles, whereas a wall of blocks can.

greg11 wrote:

That and exp for blocks can cause a conflict with players fighting over whose blocks get to be in the line of fire. Players will be destroying the blocks to put theirs in...at least a sent can't be destroyed by others, and one sent cant be setup to destroy all of the projectiles, whereas a wall of blocks can.

Good point.

saw the post in the dev section.... does that mean it will give xp now? or is it still pending?

Pending.
The only person who can build and release DruidsRPG is Druid himself. So when he wants to do the next build, he will check to make sure he agrees with the changes, then release it.
And the timescale just depends on how busy he is.

Liking the Change to it already. Nice. Seems like it will get a bit more use now.