Weapon Powerups

I expect the main discussion in this thread to be about what weapon power-ups we want to implement.

However, before we get to that, I want to discuss implementation details. The old RPG had a lot of code in for handling RPGWeapons, maintaining the ModifiedWeapon, and especially for handling RPGLinkGuns. I was thinking it would be really nice if we could leave the weapons alone, and at run time apply an effect to them. So trap the pickup message for the weapon, see it is a flak which we haven't picked up before, so select a magic type for it, and display the correct pickup text for it. Then have the netdamage code check the list of magictypes for that weapon for the player and action accordingly.

I am not sure if we can trap all the events that RPGWeapon used to, but we may be able to. All the damage ones will be ok (Damage, Energy, Freeze/Null Entropy, Healing, Knockback, Penetrating, Piercing, Poison, Protection, Rage, Reflection, Sturdy, Vampire, Vorpal). We could do infinity and luck on a timer. That leaves Force and Quickfoot - we may be able to handle these based on the weapon change message.

I am not sure about handling the cloning of weapons. It may be we can apply something to the pickup that says what type it is?

It could be a lot simpler to implement? Perhaps worth investigating?

Then as far as actual weapon types go, I would prefer the following:

we have a consistent modifier range for all powerup types (-2 to +5)

we make the +damage consistent across weapon types. Based upon the modifier times a configurable value. So a +2 vampire does the same raw damage as a +2 penetrating as a +2 energy as a +2 Sturdy.

Then each weapon also does its magic type on top. By all means have an Increased Damage magic type that does extra damage.
Basically, I want to get rid of the "energy does +3% damage for modifier range 1 to 3, infinity +4% in range -2 to 4, vorpal +10% but in range 6-10, vampire +3% on range 3 to 7"

And I would prefer the non-magic weapons to actually be treated as +0 weapons - so a max modifier would convert them to +5.

As for the powerups, we have a choice:

As now, randomly generate a powerup type and apply automatically to a new weapon

Have powerups as discrete pickups, which you can apply to the weapon of your choice. E.g. you pick up a sturdy powerup, and apply it to your sniper rifle, giving your a sturdy sniper rifle. This also allows for having +1 powerups that you could apply to any non-maxed weapon. We would then need to decide if the powerup went with the weapon when you threw it?

GameRules still has the OverridePickupQuery call in it, so we could handle weapon pickups there, and generate a powerup type for each weapon type as we pick it up. So, it looks like we can get away without RPGWeapon or RPGLinkGun, and just handle the powerups within the playerdata rather than by modifying the weapon.

And if we go the route of having power-ups which the player can assign to weapons, should we also allow the player to take the powerup off one weapon and apply it to another?

I really would like to see a more standarized set of weapon powerups but I dont think you can do both the same % increase per plus and the same plus range (like -2 to +5) or you would prob have to do away with a few types. "of Rage" comes to mind. Right now its what +6 to +10 with 10% per plus and some damage delt back. So its damage range was what 60-100% more damage. If was nerfed to 5% with the before range. it would only be 25% which would be the same for any weapon with the penalty of losing health.

I say either make the +range the same or the +% damage the same. I think I'd rather see the +% damage the same so its easier to tell on the fly how much damage the weapon could due just by looking at the +.

For Types.
~of Healing
~of Vampire
~of Regeneration (NEW, works like regen skill based on the +)
~of Damage (basily instead of just <Weapon Name> +X it would be <Weapon Name> of Damage +X, just for consistancy.)
~Vorpal
~Piercing
~of Protection
~of Quickfoot
~of Jumping (NEW, works like Power Jump)
~of Beserking/Rapid Fire (NEW, works kind of like the Combo Beserking)
~of Force
~of Freezing
~Null Entropy
~of Infinity
~of Luck
~of Poison
~of Reflection
~Sturdy

(Knockback and especially Penetrating I really never seen much use for. Monsters cant be penetrated.)

For weather to have the ability to assign weapons. I dunno really if you should. Again some types are inherently better then others based on the weapon your using.

Dracos wrote:

.... "of Rage" comes to mind. Right now its what +6 to +10 with 10% per plus and some damage delt back. So its damage range was what 60-100% more damage.

It would be easy to have Rage weapons doing +60% to +100% based on a modifier of 1 to 5.
(modifier * 10) + 50.
At least if you got a +4 you would know it is not at its max yet.

EDIT: Sorry, I think I misunderstood a bit. For most weapons have the damage set the same. For types where extra damage is part of the magic, then yes, have increased damage for them.

Szlat wrote:

Dracos wrote:

.... "of Rage" comes to mind. Right now its what +6 to +10 with 10% per plus and some damage delt back. So its damage range was what 60-100% more damage.
It would be easy to have Rage weapons doing +60% to +100% based on a modifier of 1 to 5.
(modifier * 10) + 50.
At least if you got a +4 you would know it is not at its max yet.

Eh, Either way. I think that way would nerf the double though if you chose to implement it that way.

(Modifier * 10) + 50. So if it was +4 (Eq. would be +9).
(4 * 10) + 50 is 90% before double. (Same as +9)
(8 * 10) + 50 is 130% after double. (Would be 50% less damage from a +18)

Both ways are good. is a bit easier to tell the max, other is easier to tell the damage%. I will agree on that a set range is a little easier to tell the maxs cause I've done it several times where I forgot what the max + was. Of course if double is taken out I can see the ease.

Edits:
But what would the universal + stand for then 10%?. So weapons would range from -20% to 50% base with an additonal modifer for some weapons, (Rage comes to mind) as you said +50 (Range +30% to +100%). "...Of damage" is an additional +25 (For a range of +5% to +75%. I just think that having either the + range different or the +damage% per plus different to have a little more customization with the damage ranges.

OK, lets say all weapons are between -2 to +5. What if names were changed so it would make sense? Like first state the damage , than weapon, than magic bonus. Examples:

200% vorpal shock +5 instead vorpal +10

80% flak instead flak -2

120% null flak +3 instead null flak +something

200% rage flak +5 instead rage flak +10

130% flak instead flak +3

100% draining flak -2 instead draining flak -2

so basically first say the damage than magic level from -2 to 5

I like the idea of regeneration weapon. Another thing you could add is of shielding (same as healing only for shields)

Dracos wrote:

But what would the universal + stand for then 10%?.

I would expect the extra damage% per + to be site configurable. So on some sites, they may want each + to be +10%. Other sites might only want +2%. Depends on what type of server they run.
But, at least all types would be the same (except the specific exclusions like Rage and Damage)

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I like the idea of regeneration weapon. Another thing you could add is of shielding (same as healing only for shields)

Also could add a retaliation weapon, but base retaliation on the max of expected damage and actual damage. So if you are running a globe and a titan throws a rock at you, it suffers some serious damage.

Szlat wrote:

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I like the idea of regeneration weapon. Another thing you could add is of shielding (same as healing only for shields)
Also could add a retaliation weapon, but base retaliation on the max of expected damage and actual damage. So if you are running a globe and a titan throws a rock at you, it suffers some serious damage.

If im not mistaken the rock damage would kill the titan. I cant remember off the top of my head as I havent played on my server in a while but I think according to my damage popup mod, it showed the rocks damage ranging from 1000-3500 damage that showed up over the persons head. Would have to have some reduction on the returned damage or a person could just run into the middle of a titan group, slap on globe and kill all the titans without firing your weapon.

Dracos wrote:

If im not mistaken the rock damage would kill the titan. I cant remember off the top of my head as I havent played on my server in a while but I think according to my damage popup mod, it showed the rocks damage ranging from 1000-3500 damage that showed up over the persons head. Would have to have some reduction on the returned damage or a person could just run into the middle of a titan group, slap on globe and kill all the titans without firing your weapon.

The retaliation skill does 5% damage per level. If we set a +5 retaliation weapon as doing 25% damage back, it would still be useful.

Because UT3 has a very high-tech design sensibility for all of its characters and most environments, and because I don't particularly see that changing, I'm thinking of developing the concept of UT3 RPG [on Monster Mash, or my own server] into a futuristic RPG, rather than a fantasy-styled RPG.

Weapon notation such as +1, +2, is definitely indicative of a fantasy theme. It might be asking too much because RPG does have to have some sort of paradigm for naming "magic weapons" / weapon enhancements, but if there's a way to keep that open for configuration it'd be nice. Right now I'm thinking a Mk. I, II, III, (Prototype I, II would designate negatives) etc. designation would keep a futuristic feel pretty well, so if it's not server admin configurable, the option for futuristic naming would be good.

Dracos wrote:

I really would like to see a more standarized set of weapon powerups but I dont think you can do both the same % increase per plus and the same plus range (like -2 to +5) or you would prob have to do away with a few types. "of Rage" comes to mind. Right now its what +6 to +10 with 10% per plus and some damage delt back. So its damage range was what 60-100% more damage. If was nerfed to 5% with the before range. it would only be 25% which would be the same for any weapon with the penalty of losing health.

I say either make the +range the same or the +% damage the same. I think I'd rather see the +% damage the same so its easier to tell on the fly how much damage the weapon could due just by looking at the +.

For Types.
~of Healing
~of Vampire
~of Regeneration (NEW, works like regen skill based on the +)
~of Damage (basily instead of just <Weapon Name> +X it would be <Weapon Name> of Damage +X, just for consistancy.)
~Vorpal
~Piercing
~of Protection
~of Quickfoot
~of Jumping (NEW, works like Power Jump)
~of Beserking/Rapid Fire (NEW, works kind of like the Combo Beserking)
~of Force
~of Freezing
~Null Entropy
~of Infinity
~of Luck
~of Poison
~of Reflection
~Sturdy

(Knockback and especially Penetrating I really never seen much use for. Monsters cant be penetrated.)

For weather to have the ability to assign weapons. I dunno really if you should. Again some types are inherently better then others based on the weapon your using.

Retaliation weapons are a cool idea, but I'm not sure if that'd work out so well in practice. It would, I think, at least have to be something that you dealt with in different ways for PvP RPG and Invasion RPG. I remember in Diablo 2 the Paladin had the Thorns aura, which returned up to over 1000% damage taken ... And it was still pretty ineffective. Of course, in PvP it would have been absolutely murderous, so players took a significantly reduced amount of damage from the thorns aura (I think it was something like 1/10th the damage, maybe 1/20th?).

~Vulnerability (Target struck has DR reduced by X%)
~Weakness (Target struck loses X% DB)
~Chilling (Target struck has attack rate slowed by X%)
~Sympathy (Damage you take is split with target)
~Forking (Damage done to one nearby target hits X nearby targets for Y% of damage done to the initial target)
~Chaining (Damage done to one nearby target hits another nearby target for X% of damage, then another nearby target for Y% of damage, and so on up to Z times)
~Explosive (Damage radius increased by X%)
~Feedback (struck Monsters take damage when they attack)
~Infestation (Struck monsters have a chance to receive a short lived parasite. If the monster dies while this parasite still exists, they explode and shoot out infectious bio globs nearby)
~Concussion (Every X seconds while a creature is in X range, release a shockwave to knock back the attacking monster)
~Static (Every X seconds while a creature is in X range, do Y damage to all creatures in that range)
~Blindness (Reduce monster visibility setting to 0 for X seconds. Not sure how useful this may be...)
~Pacifism (Monster cannot attack for X seconds)
~Conversion (Attacks by struck monster have a X% chance to do Y% healing. Effect lasts for Z seconds)
~Bouncing (Attacks made with this weapon reflect at least X times off of walls)
~Aggravating (Attacks made with this weapon do increasing damage per subsequent hit)
~Bleeding (Target struck has an X% chance to receive a bleeding wound, negating any healing a target may receive for Y seconds. Seems like mostly a PVP weapon, but if monsters could get it ...)
~Black Blood (Healing from Vampirism against wielder is converted to X% damage instead, again better in PvP or for monsters)
~Invisibility (Grants Invisibility, might need more)
~Deflection (Non-energy weapons have an X% chance to deflect off)
~Inspiration (Grants faster default "resource" regeneration
~Bloodlust (Damage boost and weapon speed increase for X seconds after each kill)
~Teleportation (Target struck has an X% chance to teleport to a valid nearby location, taking Y damage in the process)
~Blessing (Nearby friendly players receive X% damage increase)
~Restocking (Nearby friendly players receive X% additional ammo every Y seconds)
~Guardianship (Nearby friendly players receive X% damage reduction increase)

...

I think I'm going to try and create some kind of effect list to organize these better ...

Wow. Lots of new thoughts there.

Interesting thought about temp changes to DB/DR. It might mean we need a value for the players actual DB/DR/Weapon Speed etc that gets saved, and a separate value for their current state.

Some questions:

1) How important is cloning? Typically it is the lesser types that can be cloned. The concept of sharing good weapons with others is great. Unfortunately, you can't share the great weapons. And it would be wrong to let someone share intentionally rare types like vorpals. You definitely ought to be able to throw the good weapon to someone else - no matter how good it is. However, you could argue that really good weapons may require a Weapons Master to bring out the best in them?
I suppose some servers will want weapon cloning. In which case, each individual powerup type needs to have a flag to say if it is cloneable or not.

2) Do we want to be able to allow multiple powerups to be applied to a single weapon? Or rather, will some servers want that? Again should this be a configurable option? If so, it dramatically changes the way we implement weapon powerups. The number of powerups allowed on a weapon will need to be different for different Classes.

3) If I have say a Vampire Flak, should I be allowed to pick up a different Flak e.g. an infinite Flak?

4) If we go for the powerups being effectively single-use artifacts that apply the powerup to a specific weapon, should the powerup artifacts be spawned by luck weapons and dying monsters?

5) The list of what powerups are available, how frequent they appear, and how powerful per modifier they are should be server admin configurable. Also the min and max modifiers should be server admin configurable.

1) How important is cloning? Typically it is the lesser types that can be cloned. The concept of sharing good weapons with others is great. Unfortunately, you can't share the great weapons. And it would be wrong to let someone share intentionally rare types like vorpals. You definitely ought to be able to throw the good weapon to someone else - no matter how good it is. However, you could argue that really good weapons may require a Weapons Master to bring out the best in them?
I suppose some servers will want weapon cloning. In which case, each individual powerup type needs to have a flag to say if it is cloneable or not.
To me it is very important. As long as you are able to share a piercing flak +6 it is awesome!

3) If I have say a Vampire Flak, should I be allowed to pick up a different Flak e.g. an infinite Flak?
I'd say yes as long as the first weapon is not a negative.

4) If we go for the powerups being effectively single-use artifacts that apply the powerup to a specific weapon, should the powerup artifacts be spawned by luck weapons and dying monsters?
Yes.