Damage Bonus and Damage Reduction

There was a problem with the original implementation that monsters just split their points on DB and DR. This meant for a really high player, against really high level monsters, he would only do 1 damage per shot.

I think

We should keep DB and DR in the RPG

The maximums should be configurable in the ini file

There should also be a minimum % damage. So if DR is mega high, weapons will still do the minimum % of the original damage

We perhaps should allow monsters to purchase a bit more than just DB and DR. Perhaps a bit of Vampire or Quickfoot or Weapon Speed or Force etc (using old names as examples, not saying those types should be in the new RPG). Again this is waiting for invasion really

not sure if thats really a problem with the original rpg?? since its just afaik hardcoded in the iirc mutut2004rpg.uc class file itself? might be wrong though.

Drago'Nish wrote:

not sure if thats really a problem with the original rpg?? since its just afaik hardcoded in the iirc mutut2004rpg.uc class file itself? might be wrong though.

Yes, it is a problem in the original RPG, once players get up to a high level and you have a reasonable value (e.g. 0.25) for the InvasionAutoAdjustFactor.

yes, in endless values ofcourse it is. because then the monster level doesnt scale enough with players. but on servers like DC it scales just fine, and doesnt proof to be a problem?

its a hard to properly fix isue anyway, without making tons of wild code i suppose.

Sounds like a good start (floor/cieling of min% damage) but it would be good if monsters were able to choose to buy other skills as well which would help keep the level where it becomes an issue furthure out also.

Instead of using the current DB/DR algorithm, and putting a cap on at least x% damage, we could change the algorithm.

Currently the algorithm is
Damage = min(Damage * (1 + (DB - DR)/200), 1)

The suggestion at the start of this thread changes it to
Damage = min(Damage * (1 + (DB - DR)/200), Damage*x%)

I looked for where it has been discussed before, but couldn't find the bit I was after, but I remember someone suggested using an algorithm something like

Damage = Damage * (100+DB)/(100+DR)

So DB=DR damage unchanged. And even with a very high DR, you still do some damage.

Szlat wrote:

Damage = Damage * (100+DB)/(100+DR)

This basically means each point of DB gives +1% extra damage. I think this is too much - it makes the DB too important. Perhaps
Damage = Damage * (200+DB)/(200+DR)
would be better.
Each point of DB gives +0.5% damage.
The effect of DR is more difficult to explain. For a 100 damage attack:
Code:

 DB   0 DR   0 damage 100  (currently 100)
 DB   0 DR  50 damage  80  (currently  75)
 DB  80 DR  50 damage 112  (currently 115)
 DB  80 DR   0 damage 140  (currently 140)
 DB  80 DR 375 damage  49  (currently   1)   (lvl 300 player against monster)
 DB 375 DR  50 damage 230  (currently 260)   (monster against lvl 300 player)

So, personally, I think I like the *(200+DB)/(200+DR) solution best.
DB/DR are very useful, but do not dominate the game.
And lvl 300 players as the last player alive will find it a challenge, but not impossible (monsters doing 2.3*damage, players doing half damage)

Coming out of left-field, as usual --

I'm not really sure the weapon speed / damage bonuses we see in typical RPG servers are really all that necessary. It really doesn't add to class differentiation, and they mostly seem to be set as high as they are simply to give people more to spend points on. On the flip side, high level characters quickly outclass low level characters because the advantages of these abilities are always on and improve the player's ability to earn experience.

Having weapon-specific weapon speed and damage bonus attributes might be a more interesting way to handle things. Damage reduction is a little trickier, but could also be split up into a couple of different damage-type groupings.

Doing things this way would seem to introduce more individual distinction between characters, not to mention it'd be significantly harder to max out damage bonus and weapon speed for nine or more weapons. My only major concern would be that I feel the Stinger and the Rocket Launcher are demonstrably superior weapons to the others in the majority of typical Invasion situations. However, this might be addressable by giving the other weapons purchaseable special powers to improve their strength and versatility a little bit.

Wail wrote:

Coming out of left-field, as usual --

Actually, it is good to have someone stepping back and saying "do we really need this".

Wail wrote:

I'm not really sure the weapon speed / damage bonuses we see in typical RPG servers are really all that necessary. It really doesn't add to class differentiation, and they mostly seem to be set as high as they are simply to give people more to spend points on.

We are currently proposing for the Stat maxes to be set according to class. So WMs would have higher maxes for DB and Weapon Speed, AMs higher max for Adrenaline etc.

Wail wrote:

Having weapon-specific weapon speed and damage bonus attributes might be a more interesting way to handle things.

In the past, there was a discussion about WMs perhaps having a "Weapon Proficiency" ability, which allows them to use specific weapons better. At the time, we were just thinking of increased damage, but we could also increase the weapon speed. However, I think these would need to be separate from the overall player DB/DR. Remember also that server admins can set the maxes for DB and DR to zero if they like.

Szlat wrote:

Szlat wrote:

Damage = Damage * (100+DB)/(100+DR)
This basically means each point of DB gives +1% extra damage. I think this is too much - it makes the DB too important. Perhaps
Damage = Damage * (200+DB)/(200+DR)
would be better.
Each point of DB gives +0.5% damage.
The effect of DR is more difficult to explain. For a 100 damage attack:
Code:
 DB   0 DR   0 damage 100  (currently 100)
 DB   0 DR  50 damage  80  (currently  75)
 DB  80 DR  50 damage 112  (currently 115)
 DB  80 DR   0 damage 140  (currently 140)
 DB  80 DR 375 damage  49  (currently   1)   (lvl 300 player against monster)
 DB 375 DR  50 damage 230  (currently 260)   (monster against lvl 300 player)
 
So, personally, I think I like the *(200+DB)/(200+DR) solution best.
DB/DR are very useful, but do not dominate the game.
And lvl 300 players as the last player alive will find it a challenge, but not impossible (monsters doing 2.3*damage, players doing half damage)

I have to agree with you Szlat, the Damage*(200+DB)/(200+DR) works out real nicely and that the DB/DR bonus's shouldn't be the main stats.

Dracos wrote:

Szlat wrote:
Szlat wrote:

Damage = Damage * (100+DB)/(100+DR)
This basically means each point of DB gives +1% extra damage. I think this is too much - it makes the DB too important. Perhaps
Damage = Damage * (200+DB)/(200+DR)
would be better.
Each point of DB gives +0.5% damage.
The effect of DR is more difficult to explain. For a 100 damage attack:
Code:
 DB   0 DR   0 damage 100  (currently 100)
 DB   0 DR  50 damage  80  (currently  75)
 DB  80 DR  50 damage 112  (currently 115)
 DB  80 DR   0 damage 140  (currently 140)
 DB  80 DR 375 damage  49  (currently   1)   (lvl 300 player against monster)
 DB 375 DR  50 damage 230  (currently 260)   (monster against lvl 300 player)
 
So, personally, I think I like the *(200+DB)/(200+DR) solution best.
DB/DR are very useful, but do not dominate the game.
And lvl 300 players as the last player alive will find it a challenge, but not impossible (monsters doing 2.3*damage, players doing half damage)
I have to agree with you Szlat, the Damage*(200+DB)/(200+DR) works out real nicely and that the DB/DR bonus's shouldn't be the main stats.

Looks like you have thought this out. despite my reservations for changing this originally on UT2004 I think that starting out with it in place on UT3 would be excellent.