General Change Proposals

General Preamble

This post is intended to solicity feedback/suggestions from people regarding the following proposals for DruidsRPG. The general purpose of these proposals is to (1) improve the general dynamism of RPG, (2) Provide more meaningful choices for players in gameplay, (3) Conform DruidsRPG more closely to general RPG language and functionality

Proposals below are of three types: (1) Additions to DruidsRPG (2) Renaming and re-rationalizations of elements of DruidsRPG to make it align more closely with expectations for RPGs, and (3) Enhancements or other alterations to underused or inferior choices to improve their desirability.

====

Proposed Changes, Abilities

Shields Up - Change to 10 per level. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Shield Proficiency"
Cautiousness - Introduce % chance to remove Freezing, Null/Petrification, Poison, etc effects when caused by self-damage. Cost to 10 (from 15). No cost increase per level of ability.
Smart Healing - Change to cost 2. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Alchemic Boost"
Speed Switcher - Change to cost 10. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Quick Draw"
Power Jump - Change to cost 10. No cost increase per level of ability.
Iron Legs - Cost remains at 10. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Feather Fall."
Experienced Healing - Grants 2% additional Healing per level (Damage Increase vs. Friendly Players). Rename to "Divine Boon."

Proposed Abilities

Caduceus of Remedy - MM only. Cost 15. Req. level 60. Grants an artifact to create a Remedy Weapon of Infinity (see below for Remedy). One level.
Aegis of Protection - MM only. Cost 15. Req. level 90. Grants an artifact to create a Protector's Weapon of Infinity. Protectors would grant protection effect to friendly players struck by the weapon's attacks. One level.

Proposed Changes, Weapons

"of Rage" weapons renamed to "of Immolation"
"Null Entropy" weapons renamed to "of Petrification"
"of Luck" weapons changed to have a chance to spawn various magic artifacts
"of Force" and "of Knockback" combined. Renamed to "of Wind"

Proposed New Weapon Modifiers

"of Earth" - Combines "Sturdy" effect with 30% self-damage reduction per modifier level (max 100%). Earth damage.
"Chilling" - Adds vulnerability effect to enemies struck (See below). Cold damage.
"Flaming" - Adds burning effect to enemies struck (See below). Fire damage.
"of Wind" - See above. Air damage.

"of Rejuvenation" - Grants health, adrenaline, ammo regeneration
"of Remedy" - Immunity to Poison, Freezing, Null. Attacks made with this weapon remove these effects from friendly players
"of Cat's Grace" - Combines "of Quickfoot" effect, adds +% chance to Ghost when killed.
"of Etherealness" - Grants Flight. Reduces speed by %. Grants % damage reduction.

Proposed Artifacts

Artifact of Flame - Pickup only. Consumed after 1 use. Turns one weapon into a fire weapon ("Flaming" or "of Immolation")
Artifact of Frost - Pickup only. Consumed after 1 use. Turns one weapon into a cold weapon ("Chilling" or "of Freezing")
Artifact of Earth - Pickup only. Consumed after 1 use. Turns one weapon into an earth weapon ("of Earth" or "of Petrification")
Artifact of Air - Pickup only. Consumed after 1 use. Turns one weapon into an air weapon ("of Wind" or "of Energy")

Proposed Status Effects

"Null Entropy" - To "You are petrified!"
"You are vulnerable!" - Take % more damage from enemy attacks. (See: Harm)
"You are burning" - Damage over time effect (as Poison), fire damage.

Everyone has their own list of how the abilities and weapons should be renamed and regrouped. You seem to be trying to artifically force the RPG into a Earth/Fire/Cold/Wind structure, and I am not sure why. You will always end up with some things that do not fit, so you either have to delete them or put them somewhere inappropriate. For example, why is Null Entropy an Earth weapon?
And would you also be proposing to change the classes to fit in with your groupings? I have a feeling that would not go down well on established servers.

Wail wrote:

Shields Up - Change to 10 per level. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Shield Proficiency"

A little more explanation would help as to why you think the benefit per level should be lowered from +25 to +10? It is not too popular a skill in the first place. "Shields Up" is not a great name, but "Proficiency" implies using what you have better, whereas the skill actually increases the maximum.

Wail wrote:

Cautiousness - Introduce % chance to remove Freezing, Null/Petrification, Poison, etc effects when caused by self-damage. Cost to 10 (from 15). No cost increase per level of ability.

I can see the benefit of the % chance, and perhaps making it cheaper would make it more popular, but you may have gone too far. Balance is very tricky.

Wail wrote:

Smart Healing - Change to cost 2. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Alchemic Boost"

Again Smart Healing is not a great name, but I am not convinced by "Alchemic Boost" either. Druid is unlikely to lower the cost of anything that improves healing as that is the function of the medics.

Wail wrote:

Speed Switcher - Change to cost 10. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Quick Draw".

Why reduce the cost? This one is worth buying anyway (for WMs, AMs)

Wail wrote:

Iron Legs - Cost remains at 10. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Feather Fall."

You do not fall slower, so feather fall is the wrong name.

Wail wrote:

Experienced Healing - Grants 2% additional Healing per level (Damage Increase vs. Friendly Players). Rename to "Divine Boon."

The main purpose of experienced healing is to give extra xp for healing. Is the extra healing boost on top of the increased xp or instead of?

Wail wrote:

"of Luck" weapons changed to have a chance to spawn various magic artifacts

EDIT:Are you talking about your new weapon artifacts, or other artifacts? In principle, since artifacts like the globe and triple are dropped by monsters, they could also be spawned by luck weapons. However, you have to be careful not to have too many artifacts around, otherwise you degrade the AM class. Or are you proposing to give more of the non-droppable class-specific artifacts general availability?

Wail wrote:

"of Force" and "of Knockback" combined. Renamed to "of Wind"

Combining these has been talked about before. Only projectile weapons can be of type force - does this mean the combination will also be limited to projectile weapons? I quite like knockback minis.

Wail wrote:

"Chilling" - Adds vulnerability effect to enemies struck (See below).

Could be an interesting idea to make enemies would vulnerable. Would this work better as a blast rather than a weapon though?

Wail wrote:

"of Rejuvenation" - Grants health, adrenaline, ammo regeneration

An infinite energy vampire weapon? Me thinks a touch on the too-powerful side?

Wail wrote:

"of Remedy" - Immunity to Poison, Freezing, Null. Attacks made with this weapon remove these effects from friendly players

Interesting idea. Could modify the protection weapon to give a %chance of this, like modifying the Cautiousness ability above. Not convinced about removing these effects from friendly players - the effects generally do not last long enough for you to be able to target them in time.

Wail wrote:

"of Cat's Grace" - Combines "of Quickfoot" effect, adds +% chance to Ghost when killed.

Could stick power jump in as well. Not convinced about having a %ghost chance.

Wail wrote:

"of Etherealness" - Grants Flight. Reduces speed by %. Grants % damage reduction.

Interesting idea. Not sure why the speed reduction.

What about piercing, penetrating, vorpal etc weapons that you haven't mentioned? Are they still in, but not slotted into one of the four categories?

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Smart Healing - Change to cost 2. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Alchemic Boost"
Again Smart Healing is not a great name, but I am not convinced by "Alchemic Boost" either. Druid is unlikely to lower the cost of anything that improves healing as that is the function of the medics.

Always wondered...If a person picks up a 25 health ..that they toss themselves from drop bind...do they gain extra health?

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Experienced Healing - Grants 2% additional Healing per level (Damage Increase vs. Friendly Players). Rename to "Divine Boon."
The main purpose of experienced healing is to give extra xp for healing. Is the extra healing boost on top of the increased xp or instead of?

This sounds like good idea...most medics dont want to max out experience healing cus its not as beneficial even at the max lvl ..but maybe as a add on too max lvl of XP healing....not replace...

..

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Rejuvenation" - Grants health, adrenaline, ammo regeneration
An infinite energy vampire weapon? Me thinks a touch on the too-powerful side?

Nice..uh i mean no its not

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Remedy" - Immunity to Poison, Freezing, Null. Attacks made with this weapon remove these effects from friendly players
Interesting idea. Could modify the protection weapon to give a %chance of this, like modifying the Cautiousness ability above. Not convinced about removing these effects from friendly players - the effects generally do not last long enough for you to be able to target them in time.

°IDEA--> What about an artifact...similar to globe on invulnerability..but instead of entering God mode ..it jsut cancels out effects...so itd cost a bundle to use ..but not as much as globe..(cus well it cant stop damages..just effects..like poison...null..penetrating...) more Useful in PvP
BUT against the null lords/ poison null queens..itd help too..

....just a thought...
Youd need a diff name thou ..and artifact..

..hmm........

Szlat wrote:

Everyone has their own list of how the abilities and weapons should be renamed and regrouped. You seem to be trying to artifically force the RPG into a Earth/Fire/Cold/Wind structure, and I am not sure why. You will always end up with some things that do not fit, so you either have to delete them or put them somewhere inappropriate. For example, why is Null Entropy an Earth weapon?

I thought about whether this was a worthwhile thing to do for awhile, as the current structure of RPG doesn't seem to facilitate this sort of structure very easily. You end up with imperfect mappings and all that. However, once I sat down and looked at the magic modifiers, their effects, and how they could be renamed and rejustified, I felt like much of the apparent difficulty of doing so would be resolved with a few simple name changes.

--Null Entropy becomes "of Petrification" in this scheme - It's a simple name change, but it actually makes the functionality of the weapon more apparent and fits into the elemental scheme nicely.
--"of Rage" becomes "of Immolation" - Again, a simple name change which is at least as good a fit with the function of the weapon (and I personally believe it to be better) and it's quite sensible as an elemental weapon.
--This gives us four weapons from four different elements - Petrification for Earth, Rage for Fire, Freezing for Water/Cold, and Energy for Air/Electricity.

Now, not everyone will want to use a Petrification or Freezing or Immolation weapon, as you can end up hurting yourself with these weapons. In addition, having at least one other weapon of each elemental type seems like a fairly reasonable goal. So then the question becomes - what else be required to have two weapons of each elemental type?

--Rename Sturdy weapons (and possibly add a minor effect to make them more appealing) to indicate an Earth element association.
--Force/Knockback makes a lot of sense as Wind weapons, so that is another rename.

I can't think of any intuitive mappings from existing weapon types to Fire and Water/Cold elements, but two additional magic modifiers to fill these gaps wouldn't be hard to do. For four renames, one combine, and two new weapon types, we get eight elemental-type weapons, with Damage, Infinite, Penetrating, Piercing, Vorpal, Poison, Quickfoot, Vampiric, Healing, Protection, and possibly some other new types as non-elemental damage.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Shields Up - Change to 10 per level. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Shield Proficiency"
A little more explanation would help as to why you think the benefit per level should be lowered from +25 to +10? It is not too popular a skill in the first place. "Shields Up" is not a great name, but "Proficiency" implies using what you have better, whereas the skill actually increases the maximum.

The cost is reduced to 10, which makes the skill a marginally better buy in a points-spent to health/shield gained perspective. However, getting and staying at maxed out shields strikes me as a more difficult task, as there is no Vampirism for shields, nor can medics heal shields (although, as the server I play on and develop for doesn't have the engineer class, I can't comment on how they affect that).

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Cautiousness - Introduce % chance to remove Freezing, Null/Petrification, Poison, etc effects when caused by self-damage. Cost to 10 (from 15). No cost increase per level of ability.
I can see the benefit of the % chance, and perhaps making it cheaper would make it more popular, but you may have gone too far. Balance is very tricky.

Hm. I don't see that as being particularly powerful. Something you might have to make a choice about purchasing, though.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Smart Healing - Change to cost 2. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Alchemic Boost"
Again Smart Healing is not a great name, but I am not convinced by "Alchemic Boost" either. Druid is unlikely to lower the cost of anything that improves healing as that is the function of the medics.

I can see the point of that perspective, but this doesn't strike me as a must-buy skill even at 2 points. I wouldn't mind seeing it gone altogether, but I feel something needs to be done to bring its cost into line with its effects.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Speed Switcher - Change to cost 10. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Quick Draw".
Why reduce the cost? This one is worth buying anyway (for WMs, AMs)

I suppose usefulness is a matter of opinion. This is the sort of ability I see people purchasing only when they have maxed out everything else. Looking strictly at the points spent to the benefit gained, this one definitely seems overpriced.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Iron Legs - Cost remains at 10. No cost increase per level of ability. Rename to "Feather Fall."
You do not fall slower, so feather fall is the wrong name.

Good point.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

Experienced Healing - Grants 2% additional Healing per level (Damage Increase vs. Friendly Players). Rename to "Divine Boon."
The main purpose of experienced healing is to give extra xp for healing. Is the extra healing boost on top of the increased xp or instead of?

As proposed, this would be additional healing on top of the additional experience.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Luck" weapons changed to have a chance to spawn various magic artifacts
EDIT:Are you talking about your new weapon artifacts, or other artifacts? In principle, since artifacts like the globe and triple are dropped by monsters, they could also be spawned by luck weapons. However, you have to be careful not to have too many artifacts around, otherwise you degrade the AM class. Or are you proposing to give more of the non-droppable class-specific artifacts general availability?

Triple and Globe would be right out. Elemental weapon artifacts would be in. Other pickup artifacts could be looked at (I wouldn't mind seeing Boots, etc. pop up, but would anyone even want that?)

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Force" and "of Knockback" combined. Renamed to "of Wind"
Combining these has been talked about before. Only projectile weapons can be of type force - does this mean the combination will also be limited to projectile weapons? I quite like knockback minis.

I don't see why it would be so limited. Hitscan weapons simply wouldn't gain the Force effect, which is fine with me considering they have the benefit of instantly hitting anyway.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"Chilling" - Adds vulnerability effect to enemies struck (See below).
Could be an interesting idea to make enemies would vulnerable. Would this work better as a blast rather than a weapon though?

It'd probably be more effective as a blast, but I don't see why it should be limited to one or the other.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Rejuvenation" - Grants health, adrenaline, ammo regeneration
An infinite energy vampire weapon? Me thinks a touch on the too-powerful side?

More like a "Regeneration" + "Adrenal Drip" + "Resupplying" weapon. I don't see this as problematic, as most people are going to have at least one of these effects from their class already (and the weapon definitely shouldn't exceed the benefits you can get via your class). Values regenerated over time should be easily adjustable if this proved to be "too good" of a combination.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Remedy" - Immunity to Poison, Freezing, Null. Attacks made with this weapon remove these effects from friendly players
Interesting idea. Could modify the protection weapon to give a %chance of this, like modifying the Cautiousness ability above. Not convinced about removing these effects from friendly players - the effects generally do not last long enough for you to be able to target them in time.

I agree on the point about generally not lasting long enough to be targeted. This effect would simply be the common counterpart to the Medic weapon with the same effects. It doesn't strike me as too uncommon that a Medic using one of these weapons (especially with the Minigun) could target a player who was locked down by a Freezing/Null effect.

Rolling it into Protection may be a good idea, though ideally I would probably like to see it as a separate weapon type, as I think Protection weapons are pretty good as-is and worry about them becoming the catch-all for any potential defensive effect.

An alternative to the effect of simply removing existing negative conditions - A Remedy weapon could add a placeholder Freezing/Null (though Poison wouldn't work unless adjusted...) item to a player's inventory with no effect and a moderate duration (say, 5-10 seconds) which would cause them to be immune to Freezing/Null effects while the inventory item lasts. This could be pretty good if you're caught out in the open but have a Medic providing covering fire.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Cat's Grace" - Combines "of Quickfoot" effect, adds +% chance to Ghost when killed.
Could stick power jump in as well. Not convinced about having a %ghost chance.

Power Jump would work as well. I'm not so attached to the Ghosting chance, but I think something similar (ie, a chance to escape when you take a fatal hit) is flavorful (Cats have nine lives, and all) and might make the item more practical and less of a novelty.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

"of Etherealness" - Grants Flight. Reduces speed by %. Grants % damage reduction.
Interesting idea. Not sure why the speed reduction.

Speed reduction wouldn't be necessary, but as it has a bit of overlap with Protection's effects and would give increased mobility, it would be a factor to offset those advantages.

Szlat wrote:

What about piercing, penetrating, vorpal etc weapons that you haven't mentioned? Are they still in, but not slotted into one of the four categories?

Yes. If I didn't propose a change then it'd be in without any changes, as normal. Pretty much every RPG I've played has plenty of magical weapon types without elemental associations. Proposed changes to magic weapon types would just be to create the framework to allow a system of elemental resistances and vulnerabilities to be a part of the gameplay in Druids. How much that even would come up in the game would be entirely controlled by monsters used on the server (but as I've been creating a lot of new monsters lately, I want it to be there).

Ps Szlat isnt mini projectile?

and Pps Wail-->"It'd probably be more effective as a blast, but I don't see why it should be limited to one or the other. "..Balance good sir..balance...unless of course the msntersd are 50% instangib..o_o..in which case ..yow..

-Jason_x- wrote:

Ps Szlat isnt mini projectile?

and Pps Wail-->"It'd probably be more effective as a blast, but I don't see why it should be limited to one or the other. "..Balance good sir..balance...unless of course the msntersd are 50% instangib..o_o..in which case ..yow..

The Minigun is definitely hitscan. Stock UT2004 Minigun is, anyway. I don't know if you are running a modified minigun weapon.

As for balance, I hardly see how a blast that applies a Vulnerability effect to all creatures within a certain radius is more balanced, conceptually, than a weapon that you've got to keep trained on the creature anyway. If anything, I'd say the blast is much more powerful [at least in concept].

Consider this hypothetical scenario: A +22 Vorpal Shock with triple damage on a crowd of monsters you just vulnerability blasted, pitted against a Chilling Shock +10 with triple damage. Both weapons have been Maxed, +1 Magic Modified, and Double Magic Modified.

Lets further say that Vulnerability is a flat +10% increase in damage taken. As this is a target-related factor, it's calculated last. Lets also propose a Chilling weapon does (Max(0,Modifier -1) * .05) extra damage, so it'd do 0% extra damage at +1, 5% at +2, etc.

45 * 3.2, Vorpal = 144 * 3, Tripled = 432 * 1.1, 10% Vulnerability = 475 dmg per beam, and 1/6 chance of instant kill
vs.
45 * 1.45, Chilling = 62.25 * 3, Tripled = 195.75 * 1.1, 10% Vulnerability = 215 damage per beam

Now I suppose it's a bit unfair to compare the questionably-balanced Vorpal weapon to something specifically designed to be middle-of-the-road, but the point is that having it as an inventory item gives you freedom to use it to pump out another 43 (or more, I just don't care to think about player Damage Bonus) damage to everything you hit, whereas as a weapon, it is more useful as a utilitarian tool to be used in concert with other players for focusing fire on a few enemies and taking them down more quickly.

Trip and Vorp don't stack on this server

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:

Trip and Vorp don't stack on this server

Ahh, thanks for pointing that out.

Either way, that's not particularly germane to the point of the example, or to the general thrust of these suggestions, for that matter. I'd prefer if the thread didn't get derailed too much by hypothetical scenarios.

-Jason_x- wrote:

...Smart Healing ...Always wondered...If a person picks up a 25 health ..that they toss themselves from drop bind...do they gain extra health?

When they pick up the 25 health they gain 50 health (assuming maxed). When they drop health, they lose 50 health and the spawned health pickup has 25 health. It balances.

Sorry to be a bit negative here, just trying to give you honest feedback.

As far as Earth/wind etc go, to me it seems a lot of work just to create the four groupings, and I can't really see what the groupings achieve. Perhaps I am missing something. And changing the name of existing abilities just to fit in with that grouping seems a bit pointless and will lead to confusion. Some of your names are probably better, but it is too late now.

There are a lot of "lesser" abilities that you have suggested reductions in cost for. I am not convinced, as I think the abilities do have value, so shouldn't be given away. The higher level players do need something to buy.

The concept of combining abilities has appeal, but I think will lead to people getting confused about what an ability actually does. On the whole I prefer the simplicity of "one ability does one thing". If you want 2 things, buy 2 abilities.

I think on the weapons side, there is scope for some adjustments.
I think knockback weapons ought to have faster moving projectiles (as you suggest), and get rid of force weapons.
I think Cautiousness ought to have the %chance of stopping magic attacks (as you suggest)
Personally, I would like to see one of freezing and null entropy go, as they are very similar. On a similar vein, I cannot see the point of adding a "flaming" weapon that is the same as a poison weapon.
But again that is my current list. Everyone will have their own list, and no two people will have the same list.
I see a benefit in adding new weapons with new abilities, rather than combining abilities to make weapons too powerful. If we want more powerful weapons (which I am actually in favour of) I think I would prefer the single abilities to be increased in effectiveness - so the vampire does more vampire and the damage type does more damage etc.

As with abilities, I am not in favor of having a weapon with multiple abilities that are not explicitly defined in the name. New players will not understand that "of Earth" means "Sturdy" and "Cautiousness" combined. As an aside, I do not believe that "Sturdy" and "Cautiousness" are obvious in meaning, and would have preferred them to have stuck with "No Momentum" and "Reduce Self damage", but again, it is too late.

Having artifacts to make group type weapons? Typically on the forums we get requests for being able to make piercing or vorpal weapons, but very few other types.

Medic healing is powerful enough already, so I am not convinced about improving the benefit of experienced healing.

I like the concept of "Chilling" - be it an artifact, a blast or a weapon is for another day. But a good idea.

But on all these issues, it is not me you need to convince - it is Druid and Shantara.

To conclude, you have some good ideas. Do not give up. Especially do not give up just because someone else doesn't agree with you. Just don't try to change too much in one go. Lots of players do not like change.

In skimming your post, I have a few thoughts.

First, changing the names of various types has been suggested before. You can check the other posts for why it will not happen here. In general, we are not trying to be like every other RPG game out there. Our developers have a lot of unique ideas, which I find refreshing. Also, the names are easier to understand the way they are, for example, "knockback" is pretty self-explanatory, whereas "wind" is not.

Second, keep in mind that we try to maintain a balance between all of the classes. Therefore, ideas that will make one class significantly better than another will not be well received.

Third, it would be significantly more helpful to have each separate idea as a separate post. This makes it easier to comment on each idea individually and makes it easier for everyone to read what they are interested in and sort through the rest. You are also more likely to get some of the developers interested in coding your ideas this way, unless you were volunteering to do it yourself.

Shantara wrote:

... unless you were volunteering to do it yourself.

Pretty much, I'm just testing the waters to see how this sort of thing may be received, and what the chances would be of getting things rolled into Druids core.

How about making the Medic Weapons (and maybe the medic artifacts) remove magic attacks (Null, Freeze, Poison) in addition to healing?

Also, there should be a way to negate the VERY annoying Titan Stomp (by coding it into the Sturdy magic weap, or a buyable skill).

I think the idea of the ability of avoiding titan stomp to eb interestng AND you avg AM runs out of abilites at lvl 301(i dunno what you run out for medics) but for SOMEONE not all but 1 clas can buy the skill or 2...I think that woudl eb kool..and exepensive..

..

Give the higher lvl stuff to buy

Teh idea for a globe of immune sounds nice ...chew up ur adren in order to keep runing for the warlord horde.,.

...

LagMast3r wrote:

How about making the Medic Weapons (and maybe the medic artifacts) remove magic attacks (Null, Freeze, Poison) in addition to healing?

Also, there should be a way to negate the VERY annoying Titan Stomp (by coding it into the Sturdy magic weap, or a buyable skill).

I thought about this, but it'd be both easier to add another Medic-type weapon for Medics, and it would give them some much-needed versatility at higher levels.

There is a way to negate the Titan stomp - Boots of Flight. (And, in theory, a weapon of Etherealness would also.)