Proposed Changes for Balancing the Engineer Class

At the moment, level 60 Engineers are too powerful, and are outscoring much higher level players. We need to tone the offensive capability of Engineers to be no higher than the other classes. Also, the Engineer was supposed to be a support class, helping others. Too many Engineers are just currently spawning themselves a turret or tank and sitting in it throughout the game, and so not supporting others at all.

So, my proposal on how to restructure the Engineers follows. Obviously, no changes will be made without feedback from Druid and Shantara.

Vehicles. Only allow in VINV maps. Keep the current list of vehicles, and add the raptor, cicada and manta. Change to require a slightly larger spawn area for the vehicles, so even in VINV maps they do not block passageways.

Link Turret. Remove. When we get level 100+ Engineers, if it looks like they are underpowered, we may re-add.

2 Sentinels. Currently you can spawn 2 sentinels at level 60. Change this to level 70 to slightly defer the score boost.

Turrets. I want to encourage the engineers to build turrets for other people. So allow an Engineer to spawn 2 turrets at level 50

Blocks. I am still not entirely happy with how they are performing, but there is a later version waiting for release that may fix some of the moving/floating/not disappearing bugs. Due to taking away some of the stronger spawnable items, I think these may get used more in the future. I am not sure I can effectively code any way of restricting blocks to "appropriate" places - so that will have to be a courtesy thing, once we know what we want. Long term, we may replace with a shield wall or something, but that is not definite and certainly not yet. So, trial extended

LoadedEngineer. All summoned items to have half their current max health. ConstructionHealthBonus changed from 5% to 20% of initial max health per level. This will encourage players to buy some ConstructionHealthBonus before maxing LoadedEngineer.

Shield healing. Change from a max of 1.5% of shield healing as xp, to 3%. This allows Engineers to get more xp from support activities

Linking to Turrets I want to encourage Engineers to spawn turrets for other players to use. So, the suggestion is if an Engineer links to a turret, the turret gets a 100% damage bonus, and the Engineer gets half of the xp. Only applies to Engineers, and only for direct links, no chains.

Vehicle Eject. If we want other classes to be effective users of vehicles and turrets, I do not see why all high level players should not be able to max the VehicleEject skill

So, the general idea is less offensive capability for Engineers, but more xp for support activities.

Does that sound like it should balance things better?

Id say that looks very decent..

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2 Quick Questiosn is ..Enginneers would be able to spawn vehicles in other game types as well?..Such as ONS...Team DM..vctf...or would ti decided the map is an ONS map and allow regardless if vinv TeamDM or ONS..?..

And 2ndly...hum....The linking to turrets ..
One concern is that Theres always 2 ways for a group of ppl to link to something / someone.....one...is a chain...2 is a bunch of link guns all linking directly to the person/thing...In this case a turrent...

So the question is would 2 engineers standing side by side..linking to the same spot ..both gain xp?...or will the summoner be the only beneficiary?..i believe thsi will only apply to only turrets not to vehicles in VINV

But yeah Still yet again Thanks szlat

Give a round of applause for Szlat ppl..!

(the clapping emote doesnt work..o.0..)

Ps ..thought the cicada wasnt allowed on the ONS maps with them anyways...o.0..

-Jason_x- wrote:

..Enginneers would be able to spawn vehicles in other game types as well?..Such as ONS...Team DM..vctf...or would ti decided the map is an ONS map and allow regardless if vinv TeamDM or ONS..?..

Vehicle spawning tied into gametype not map type. Not sure about ONS gametype. Probably not. There may be one or two ONS maps where one side having flying vehicles may be too much of an advantage.

-Jason_x- wrote:

So the question is would 2 engineers standing side by side..linking to the same spot ..both gain xp?...or will the summoner be the only beneficiary?..i believe thsi will only apply to only turrets not to vehicles in VINV

If two Engineers each link to a turret, turret gets 3 times original damage, and each Engineer gets one third of xp.
If one Engineer links to turret, and other Engineers or non-engineers link to him, damage done by turret is doubled, and the engineer gets half the xp. The other people get nothing.
The Engineer link Gun has a very short range, so any Engineers boosting a turret have to be close to it. Allowing chains or non-Engineer Links to do it would allow much greater ability to hide and boost.

So ..Let say ...I link up to a turrent...And in x time i get 100 xp

if a nonengineer was linked to me....since damage is doubled.....Id get ..200xp?....or will it half bac to 100 with nonengineer linked to me...

Also ..if i link a turrent close..then run back...the link (as do all links..) stretches...with high chance of breaking if someone stands /(a link gun carrying person) runs in front of me..but thats just a side note..

-Jason_x- wrote:

So ..Let say ...I link up to a turrent...And in x time i get 100 xp

if a nonengineer was linked to me....since damage is doubled.....Id get ..200xp?....or will it half bac to 100 with nonengineer linked to me...

You link to the turret, the turret damage doubles, you and the turret operator each get 100xp over X time.
If someone else was linked to you, the turret damage is not increased by them (it remains double) and so they get nothing. So anyone chaining gets nothing for it. Only the Engineer linked to the turret increases the damage of the turret, and thus gets xp for it.

ah and aah

Some good proposals here! You getting any sleep yet?

Anyway, I agree with the majority of the post, here are my differences:

Szlat wrote:

Vehicles. Only allow in VINV maps. Keep the current list of vehicles, and add the raptor, cicada and manta. Change to require a slightly larger spawn area for the vehicles, so even in VINV maps they do not block passageways.

On this I'd vote just for the larger spawn area. Keep the current vehic list, possibly adding the others in VINV maps. Restricting all vehics to VINV maps kinda defeats the point of being able to spawn a vehic, imho. Also add the 1 vehic / map if poss.

Szlat wrote:

Link Turret. Remove. When we get level 100+ Engineers, if it looks like they are underpowered, we may re-add.

Wouldn't remove them (cuz I really want one

) but maybe lower their power? I just think the link turret adds another layer of playability to the eng, which as players get to higher levels, will keep the class entertaining. If we keep removing stuff from the class, we may as well remove the class altogether. If we just lower the power though, it will force adaptation but still keep it interesting.

Szlat wrote:

Shield healing. Change from a max of 1.5% of shield healing as xp, to 3%. This allows Engineers to get more xp from support activities

Cool! Another thought here, it's frustrating trying to boost someone with such a small range. If there was a way to add to the eng link's boost range, that would encourage support behavior as well.

Anyway, yeah, thats my brain on a platter...or at least part of it. Again, fantastic work szlat and others! Many thanks!

cheers.
t.

Thanks for your continuous hard work Szlat, just so you know it doesnt go unappreciated.

I like everything you have proposed.

I have a couple of opinions about the above.

I commonly outscore higher level players with my medic, weapon master and now engineer, however tanks are way too much.

I agree that engineers were designed to be a support class, I do not believe that the standard most people are applying above is fair.

I have seen far more teamwork from and between engineers of lower level than I commonly see from characters 6 times their level. I regularly see them working together to fortify an area, set up overlapping fields of fire and kill zones, they heal each others shields and share duties in keeping each others equipment repaired. The occasional high level that rips through the area at 5*quickfoot probably only notices that all the stuff that they were not expecting to be there is slowing them down.

I do not like the idea of vehicles being restricted to VINV maps, but after what I saw in play today its pretty obvious that players are not going to moderate themselves except in a few rare instances.

Last thing to consider the link gun is the highest damage per second weapon in the game. Start adding in damage multiples because you are being linked to, double damage or breserk and it can lay alot of damage down quick!

nuff said, (by me anyways)

I think allowing a configuration for vehicles being in VINV maps only or not is a better choice. Some of the servers that run this RPG type do not have VINV maps.

Sadly, it does seem that the tanks need to go. I'm not convinced the hellbender and scorpion are that big of a deal.

If someone wants to code up a stationary turret that's like the tank, I'd be willing to consider it.

Just a thought here on creating a "turret thats like the tank"

Most Engineers who are using the tanks arent really going anywhere in them anyways, but rather sitting in one spot and utilizing the range capabilities of the tank. I think having a turret with those abilities wouldnt really solve the problem. Just my two cents for what its worth which I know isnt much

Well actually micron this depends your map...

Come Familiy room...using stationary tanks is not very useful and unless said engineer has high regen and vamp and damge red..gets beat down pretty fast....also...you cant aovid titan rocks if you cant move can you..

..

But some maps they do stay still..o.0....

BUT if you did do a turret..woudl it be 2 seater.

...hehe...2 seater turret..sounds nice..

I disagree Jason

I played Family Room the other night with 2 engineers.
One basically camped out between the coffee table and TV and the other beside the bar.

They were cleaning up.

Eh I guess it depends...

..Last times Ive played family room as engineer being in tank stationary didnt work out well unless i moved...providing of course there were other tanks....so i was moving for the kills

...Along wiht trying nto to be kill by 2 queens..*moving in a circle help alot surprisingly..o.0...hmmm.....

Still...2 man turret..

..hhehehe...