Engineer Class Opinions:

dip42 — GMT

I feel that the Engineer class is way over powered. I think that people should only be able to spawn one vehicle at a time. I was just playing on Romra and their was one Engineer class and two raptors. I think that the Vehicles should not be able to be given to your friends. I really think that they shouldnt be able to spawn vehicles altogether but thats a different story. Here is a picture that shows two Raptors flying around in Romra. I watched the Engineer Jump out, let someone else jump into then spawn another one.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

deleted — GMT

Like I said in game, if I wanted to play vehicle invasion I might as well play ons. This new engineer thing is bad news all around. I want to play for fun, something challenging but evey time I turn around something else is being done to make it easier. I also am not keen on the fact everyone is benefiting from these new abilities but what abotu LW we get nuthing....excluding the shield gun and assult WOW makes me want to keep my char and not switch it. LW char's should get a special ability too that nobody else can have.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Moof — GMT

You two do realize that Bot, the engineer in question, is level 250, right? Yes, it's quite powerful at level 250. It's also primarily a support class. Engineers cannot heal themselves, get almost nothing in the way of weapons that the other classes do - they don't even have as much direct offense as medics - and get nothing to support their summoning, not even adrenal drip. Edit: Yes, there are some balance issues. Several vehicles have been removed already, and the turrets are too powerful. It's being looked at. But this is an Engineer preview for a reason, and it's not yet the time to start complaining. :)

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

dip42 — GMT

Moof wrote:

You two do realize that Bot, the engineer in question, is level 250, right? Yes, it's quite powerful at level 250. It's also primarily a support class. Engineers cannot heal themselves, get almost nothing in the way of weapons that the other classes do - they don't even have as much direct offense as medics - and get nothing to support their summoning, not even adrenal drip.

It may sound as if im singling him out, but im talking about the whole class in general. And i know its a powerful level.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Mystic — GMT

its a great class .. and yeah its over powerd were testing them at 100 and 250 . ofcourse theyre gonna be lethal.. hence TESTING PREVIEW! simple tone downs are all they need .. i like being able to spawn vehicles in dm maps. or ctf.or wherever i please.. its part of the class.. my lw player can easily out do any other class .. easily.. they dont need improvement.. the other classes did ... why dont you wait to try the engineer before you completely knock it. as youve been doing . just an observation .

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

emetakleze — GMT

I played a bit last night, and I think it is pretty fun. Of course there are balance issues (aren't there always? LOL) and some bugs and over-powering that needs to be sorted out, but all in all I think it will be a nice addition.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Pyramidion — GMT

I think it's a great addition and it will be toned down a bit before it's done. I like how you can create vehicles for others as well though, it's like a WM handing out a null flack 6 to an adren player. It's still be adjusted and I definitely think you need to try it before you can say it's bad. I think it's a great addition, just give it some time.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

[BGE]Cha-Chi — GMT

Mystic wrote:

simple tone downs are all they need .. i like being able to spawn vehicles in dm maps. or ctf.or wherever i please.. its part of the class.. my lw player can easily out do any other class .. easily.. they dont need improvement.. the other classes did ... :-@

Ok, before this turns into a flame thread, I am putting my two cents in. As an advocate of having the player become better per scenario, well frankly this is a class that is taking away from that. Invasion was created by Epic as something that people, not vehicles, run around and combat the invasion. For people who wanted a similar game type with vehicles, they created assault. Part of the fun of invasion was running through the groups of enemies and surviving through your skills or help of your teams skills (skills not meaning vehicles; healing, increasing item damage is fine. It is a common thing you find in RPG style games.) A comment made by mystic, I like being able to spawn vehicles in DM maps, Why??? Do you feel it is more of a challenge or that you can sit back and shoot the entrances to corridors with a Goliath shell. Where is the fun in that for THE REST OF THE PLAYERS IN THE SERVER. Sure its fun to finish a map but because we did it running around and killing things; NOT because we had a few engineers camp the entrances of areas and being crowd control. What sense of accomplishment does that do for ALL THE PLAYERS of the map. "Yay we beat it but I only got 500 points. Hey look, each of the engineers broke 1200." Again, this server's players and admins talk about working together and helping each other out during game. Now lets create who's only objective in the game is to kill things off before anyone else just to finish the map. And on the topic of someones LW character can beat someone out every time, have fun trying on a full server with a map such as romra. Any decent Raptor driver can fly around and shoot at things that are not even targeting them, while the rest of the monsters fight the ground troops, until they are one of the last ones alive. Even then, most monsters do not lead shots and if you stay far enough away and keep moving, well lets just say that you can rack up the experience. I am sure it is fun to play and I am not doubting that in any way, but is it fun for the player or for the server??? FOR THE SAKE OF THE SERVER, AS WELL AS FUN FOR THE REST OF THE PLAYERS, PLEASE RECONSIDER SUCH A HUGE ADD TO THE SERVER. YOU ARE DOING MORE THAN JUST ADDING A CLASS, YOU ARE CHANGING THE WAY EVERY PLAYER IS GONNA HAVE TO PLAY JUST TO COMPETE WITH SUCH A CLASS AND GET EXPERIENCE FOR THEMSELVES AS WELL.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

deleted — GMT

i concur completely

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

BotFodder — GMT

Thank you for taking your opinions here. Repeatedly complaining about it during the game, especially to a bunch of people who really can't do anything about it is not the least bit helpful and can come awfully close to violating rule #9. I share your concerns with the ability spawn vehicles on non-VINV maps. Considering that some of the vehicles are fast moving and can be used to instakill any monster short of a Queen or Titan is grossly unfair to those who cannot make a vehicle at will. It should go without saying that some maps will just plain not be conducive to vehicles. I have two points of view on this: As a Developer, I'll not knock the effort someone's gone through to work on this class. Issues with concept aside, the fact that things are "working" is an incredible feat. I also consider it very possible that we might come up with a way to make the class very palatable to the community in general. If I don't like the concept or the way it's going, I just won't work on it, and will leave it to others who want it to work. As a Player, well, I've said I have my concerns. As with any change, members of the community who disagree with the change have a choice: Learn to live with it, or go elsewhere. If you learn to live with it, you should have the freedom to speak your piece in the appropriate forums at appropriate times. I don't think the administration here would object to that as long as you don't violate any of the server rules in the process. If you're going to go, go. Sticking around isn't going to do anyone any good, and continually expressing your displeasure probably won't be tolerated for very long.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Spike — GMT

FYI: this happens almost every time changes or additions are made to MMORPG servers - so not to worry, the devs will look into tuning the class (also commonly known as "nerfing" although that has somewhat negative connotations)

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Mystic — GMT

no heated discussion ..just opinions. i agree with bot ... but im not gonna sugar coat it .. We are not the OWNERS >> The OWNERS WILL DO AS THEY PLEASE and the comments of how bad everything is from peeps who dont play on the server as much as the others do . need to either go with the flow ..or try another stream. (%)

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

[BGE]Cha-Chi — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

I share your concerns with the ability spawn vehicles on non-VINV maps. Considering that some of the vehicles are fast moving and can be used to instakill any monster short of a Queen or Titan is grossly unfair to those who cannot make a vehicle at will. It should go without saying that some maps will just plain not be conducive to vehicles. If you learn to live with it, you should have the freedom to speak your piece in the appropriate forums at appropriate times. I don't think the administration here would object to that as long as you don't violate any of the server rules in the process. If you're going to go, go. Sticking around isn't going to do anyone any good, and continually expressing your displeasure probably won't be tolerated for very long.

My comments were made to be taken considerately, not to start a flame war. Ok, a couple of things. Take personal attacks that NO ONE is making against you or any other developers aside because NO ONE has made an attack against any person for development. Because of you developers, we can play on this server, thanks for that. Second: The first paragraph that you posted to the topic should be enough to say to the other developers, "Should we really be doing this because this could be "grossly unfair to those who cannot make a vehicle at will"." Third: I've Adminned servers for several years now. When players that are dedcated to the server come in expressing a concern about something, you don't finish off your reasoning as an admin with, "If you don't like it leave or we'll just get rid of you." That's a bit disrespectful to the players. There are people who have played this server for as long as, and longer, than some current admins. I am speaking as a player and probably for alot of players, we come back to the server for its enjoyment. I am sure Druid and Shan continue the server because of its mass enjoyment by the players and that they enjoy playing with people who are enjoying the server. I don't want to leave the server, I enjoy it and the people. If I ever do leave the server, I hope it is because of changes in the way the game runs , not because of the way people express an opinion and get somewhat "threatened" by an admin at the end of it all. With my "opinion" being stated I also want to express that I have no personal "grievance" with Druid and Shan and look forward to the great games and players that their server has to offer. Please lets stick to the topic of "Engineer Class Opinions." That is what this topic is titled and was made for BY THE PLAYERS. If I have said something that an admin may think is questionable, please feel free to PM concerns. My comments are and will continue to be as a player who loves to play on the server, not someone who is trying to start a flame war.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

ECHO — GMT

I don't see how anyone can say whether this class will or will not be unfair. It's quite clear that the preview engineers are way too powerful. Tweaks will be made, abilities taken away. Why don't we just wait until everything has been adjusted before making judgments? I think it would be an insult to the development team who put so many hours into coding this class if we just trashed the idea before it could ever take off.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Moof — GMT

Okay. Everyone. Take a deep breath. The sky is not falling. DC is not breaking. .... ........ .............................. All set? Okay. :) Look, it's new. To some people, this is exciting. To others , it's mundane; others yet find the changes bothersome. However, we can all come together and play the same darn game we've been playing. Balance. Consider: Dru, Shan, and for that matter practically everyone else is well aware of the balance issues presented by letting a player fly around in a raptor on a map with an open sky. We are working through these issues - all of us - you included. There are a myriad of ways to balance the classes, and the game overall, while allowing many of the changes and possibilities presented by the engineer class. They're not done. Yet. That's why this is a preview. So please, everyone have some fun, laugh at my engineer character, Engimoof, scoring 1800 points without doing anything at all, because I sure as heck noted that it was absolutely ridiculous, ask for a Cicada yourself and enjoy being overpowered too for a moment. We're testing and having fun. The server is indeed in a time of transition, but it's toward something better, not away from things good. <3.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Fro13 — GMT

I think we should limit the spawning of vehicles in VINV. There's a lot of levels that just don't go well with vehicles. I thought it was funny turning a corner and finding Dru flying through the coridor, but I don't know if everyone would. I think that would eliminate some of these problems, and maybe we could include some of the other vehicles that were excluded before.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Mach — GMT

Engineers are definitly overpowered right now, but that will definitly be toned down. Also, as of today I believe only 4 medics are over level 100, so we won't be seeing many maps dominated by vehicles after the preview. There will be a lot of people who start engineers, but most will stop playing them after awhile and only a few will truly experience the full capabilities of an engineer. I think it's hilarious seeing a scorpion going up stairs in a DM map, but as Fro said I can see why others wouldn't find it funny. Because engineers are in the same boat as LA's without the ability to get regen or vamp they will be eaten alive outside of vehicles. I'll give out weapons and artifacts if I'm not using them, but it's awesome to get a vehicle in return for giving out a weapon. I wouldn't mind seeing a limit of one vehicle at a time per engineer and perhaps a limit of 2-3 turrets. It really depends on how much the turrets are toned down though.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

PhoenixFire — GMT

Certain vehicles in particular (Cicada+Raptor) I disagree with, since their ability to fly will ruin the challenge in any unenclosed map. Also, the tanks are a bit overpowering too... in a small map with a good chokepoint; someone could sit and camp all day, espcially with armorvamp (assuming the skill acts as I think it does). Anyways, if damage can be toned down, and flying vehicles (not including the manta, since it hovers, rather than flies) are removed, I think it'll make everyone happy. As long as the vehicles aren't too dominating and don't get in the way (like pets sometimes do... heh) then everything should be fine. Is there a list of skills out there we can look at for the engineer? I'm sure there is, but I probably missed it when I scanned the forums ._.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

Shantara — GMT

I am quite concerned after reading some of the responses in this post. I am locking this thread. Here is why: 1) What you have seen so far of the engineer is a PREVIEW. As in, we are still testing it and working out balance and such things. It is by no means permanent. 2) Several of you border on flaming in this post. When making responses, be considerate. Remember that several people put many, many HOURS into just this build alone, let alone the day-to-day maintenance of this server. If you would like to report bugs, please do so in the RPG forum. When the engineer is ready for release, if you have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback that is respectful, you may start another post.

Re:Engineer Class Opinions:

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Greetings everyone, I'd like to say our engineer preview for this weekend is sadly at an end. The knowledge that we've taken away from this preview has been invaluable in terms of balance changes needed and overall performance. A number of you have provided wonderful feedback that the development team will take to heart in making further decisions in our closed forum. To those of you who felt this preview drastically unbalanced the game, it may have been in your best interest to read the preview post first, to consider what this was about. I would like to raise a glass of virtual wine to Szlat for putting the major portions of the engineer class together, and also to BotFodder and Moof for adding some features and numerous bug fixes to this release. I believe this release represents a major turning point for the DC community in it's ability to grow and change.

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