Latest posts for the topic "Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???"

Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

[BGE]Cha-Chi — GMT

Many of the old school DC'ers know me and I have been making more appearances as of late playing on DC. About the time I had to lay off of gaming a bit, the introduction of the classes such as LA's Medics, etc were just being put into play. Its really cool seeing all the things that have made this server even more dynamic and fun to play. But with the addition of all these classes, the Loaded Weapon players seem to be on the lower end of the "goodies bag." Sure some can argue that they start with great weapons all the time. But the majnority of the time these weapons are handed out ASAP so that everyone can enjoy them, which in the long run makes them a little less special to have. Don't get me worng I am all for teamwork but it seems like other classes are given things that are proprietary towards them and benefit them more in the progression of EXP than the LW players. Good example, Medics. They help people in the server alot but they also get the reward of experience for there help. LW players don't get a reward of anything other than helping the rest of the players get great wepons. I don'tk know, maybe I just feel the loaded weapon player has been left out of the progression of classes. It was basically there MANY RPG versions ago and hasn't really ever changed. What do the rest of youthink. Could they get anything such as maybe the option to purchase a stat increase of some type. Example: Extra Damage Redcution. Have it were you purchase this ability that allows, lets say, 10 extra damage reduction to be able to add to your stats. Make it maybe 15 points to purchase. Then after you have the ability save up 10 points to throw into it. This still makes it so that the player can still get something extra but still cost 25 points, in this example atleast, to get 10 more reduction points. Food for thought, anyone else?

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Szlat — GMT

I agree, LWs have been left behind a bit. Since they are supposed to be front line fighters, I think extra damage and extra damage reduction would be good. I also think it's strange that LAs typically have better weapons than LWs. So, personally, I would improve the LWs weapons by allowing their weapons to have more than one magic type.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Drago'Nish — GMT

Szlat wrote:

I agree, LWs have been left behind a bit. Since they are supposed to be front line fighters, I think extra damage and extra damage reduction would be good. I also think it's strange that LAs typically have better weapons than LWs. So, personally, I would improve the LWs weapons by allowing their weapons to have more than one magic type.

that idea has been made before, but letting them have 2 magic types would make the weapons greatly more powerfull, and i mean to powerfull. and it would take a lot of aditional code to make all those magic weapons as you cant just put in the code damage+infinity for example, and it will still always be fixed combinations. it would be nice with random combinations, but i dont think thats possible. and then they should not be capable of dropping, else they would give em away anyway.. :P

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Szlat — GMT

Drago'Nish wrote:

it would be nice with random combinations, but i dont think thats possible.

It is possible, but it is quite a bit of work. Look at the Weapons of Power mod as an example http://users.adelphia.net/~rpowers96/Wop/index.html I am not saying DC should use that, just showing that it is possible.

Drago'Nish wrote:

and then they should not be capable of dropping, else they would give em away anyway.

Agreed. Although it would also be possible to make it so they could pass them to other LWs but not to LAs/medics.

Drago'Nish wrote:

letting them have 2 magic types would make the weapons greatly more powerfull, and i mean to powerfull.

Not really. Remember, if LAs cannot get them, then they cannot be maxed or PlusOne'd, so on average they would have lower modifiers. It could easily be made so that the more magic types a weapon had, the less raw damage it did, or even had a lower max modifier.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

RadicalROM — GMT

Now my 2 cents which is not worth much. I agree healers get an added bonus of experience when they heal so why not do something like that for loaded weapons. The idea is why not for that game or for a certain time frame if a player gives a weapon to another player the giving player gets some sort of bonus (more damage, exp per hand out) to add even more complexity it could take in account for what type of weapon you hand out such as a vorpal would give you the highest bonus value were a standard weapon would give you the least. Or you could just have 2 bonuses which would be if you were handing out a copy would be less bonus and a * would be more bonus. I agree the bonuses must be very small, especially for a copied weapon because potentially you could copy it 19 times + DC players. What this would do is improve on teamwork. Yes I like handing out weapons but on another hand I know it will hurt me in the long run because of a smaller score If there was some bonus for handing out I would think that you would see people hand out more. I am not a programmer so I have no clue how tough this would even be to make the changes. Also my ideas may just stink (it would not be the first time). Also it could inbalance the game to much. That is why I say whatever bonus it should be small. Ok there is my 2 cents. Radicalrom

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

FodderFigure — GMT

LW is fine the way it is. If anything is added make it expensive, 50 stat points per added level of whatever. Adding abilities is OK, but they should be hard to come by. The most realistic idea and the easiest for the programmer would be add a level or two to all the present skills. Here are some ideas I've seen over the past few months I would like to see. 1. The ability to keep all our weapons in case we die. 2. The ability to purchase a weapon of choice and keep it between maps. These weapons could be upgradable with a slight devaluation of the "used" weapon. i.e. I buy a shock 4 for 20 stat points and then decide I'd rather have the infinite 3 link which sells for 30 stat points. I trade back my shock for a credit of 17 stat points and then I get my link for 30. There should be an initial cost for this ablity. A vorpol should cost 100 stat points 3. A faster ghost. 4. Ability to combine weapons of choice. Just my 3 cents worth (which I know is worth more then if I just gave you my 2 cents worth and I know you wouldn't want that.)

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Grizzled_Imposter — GMT

I am commonly wrong, but I find that I make more experiance, more points and survive better with LW than the other classes. Medics may get experiance for healing. LW characters may get to make lots of magic weapons. Loaded Weapons characters have (eventualy) all of the weapons and skills to keep them alive. Thats not to say that I do not want more for my LW character, but if you are giving away all of your weapons, you are volintarily giving up one of your primary advantages, A weapon for every situation.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Continuum — GMT

FodderFigure wrote:

LW is fine the way it is. If anything is added make it expensive, 50 stat points per added level of whatever. Adding abilities is OK, but they should be hard to come by. The most realistic idea and the easiest for the programmer would be add a level or two to all the present skills. Here are some ideas I've seen over the past few months I would like to see. 1. The ability to keep all our weapons in case we die. 2. The ability to purchase a weapon of choice and keep it between maps. These weapons could be upgradable with a slight devaluation of the "used" weapon. i.e. I buy a shock 4 for 20 stat points and then decide I'd rather have the infinite 3 link which sells for 30 stat points. I trade back my shock for a credit of 17 stat points and then I get my link for 30. There should be an initial cost for this ablity. A vorpol should cost 100 stat points 3. A faster ghost. 4. Ability to combine weapons of choice. Just my 3 cents worth (which I know is worth more then if I just gave you my 2 cents worth and I know you wouldn't want that.)

I like this idea but maybe keep it from being maxed. lvl 1: you get the base uncursed weapon lvl 2: you get to choose from a few magic types and get +1 lvl 3: you can up the + for your weapon lvl 4: you can choose from a few better magic types and get +1 With loaded weapons(lvl 5?)not sure if lvl 1 would work since you start with all magic weapons but this way you could choose the magic type for 1 weapon and get +1 or +2 for it while maybe still being able to have a LA max it for you.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

edomingox — GMT

I think LW is fine. It's up to the player to choose to give away any weapons he/she may have. Same goes for LA players. There are pluses and minuses to being LW or LA. LW gets regeneration. LA gets adrenal drip. I would say it's still balanced and again, it's up to the player to decide if they want to give away weapons. I personally don't ask for weapons, but I will take anything that is handed out.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

320 — GMT

edomingox wrote:

I think LW is fine. It's up to the player to choose to give away any weapons he/she may have. Same goes for LA players. There are pluses and minuses to being LW or LA. LW gets regeneration. LA gets adrenal drip. I would say it's still balanced and again, it's up to the player to decide if they want to give away weapons. I personally don't ask for weapons, but I will take anything that is handed out.

I don't see a huge shortfall, personally. In playing both LW and LA since 190, LW definately took a hit with the increased appetite of the triple (10/sec vs 7 per sec is a 43% increase in consumed adren). Even my LA char feels this hit and I have to much more selective with my use. Triple + Globe is a sure adren killer, whereas before, it was possible to run this combo much more effectively before.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

dip42 — GMT

320 wrote:

I don't see a huge shortfall, personally. In playing both LW and LA since 190, LW definately took a hit with the increased appetite of the triple (10/sec vs 7 per sec is a 43% increase in consumed adren). Even my LA char feels this hit and I have to much more selective with my use. Triple + Globe is a sure adren killer, whereas before, it was possible to run this combo much more effectively before.

Doesn't Energy Leech and Adrenal Drip give you ADL. everytime you hit somthing. So You would be able to run a global + triple for a long period of time if you just have somthing to hit. Also if you have a flak 3 energy than I think it would be hard for you to drain your ADL. if your shooting and killing stuff.. For the LW players. I think that being able to buy more of somthing would be great. Lets say for 20 stat points you would be able to buy another mine for your mine layer reaching the max of 8. If you where able to buy a weapon and keep it for a map or more as Fodder had said, then it would kill for whoever has that vorpal for the whole entire time that they play. It would just make things unfair again for the other classes. OR If LW players had an added skills that no other class had that would be great. I mean yea we get the weapons an all but, LA gets ALL artifact plus some. Medics get monsters and healing which give you xp. That just leaves LW players with vamp. Medics could easily make a healing RL and shoot down and heal themselves. LA players could use Energy Leech and Adrenal Drip to active booster or such which would give them health also. I personally think that LW players get less for their money

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Wildfire — GMT

I tend to think it has become a bit unbalanced in favor of the LA players, but that may just be the LW in me playing. My logic is as follows: The LW players are supposed to be the frontline Warriors. Yes, they get all weapons right at the beginning. Yes, they have Vampirism. The problem is, LA players are capable of dealing more damage/killing more mosnters faster due to two things: Every one of them gets a Triple Damage, and every one of them can make a more powerful weapon than the LW players. I'll explain the slash in damage/killing later, but I'd like to address the other two things first. I know the idea behind the LA players is to have them be the mages of the server, but giving them every artifact available, plus some specialized ones, seems a bit unfair. At full skill, they can create the most powerful, unsharable weapons in very little time. Not only that, they can now add an additional point to that weapon to make it even more powerful, which doesn't even take into account the Double Magic Modifier, which I actually like for the LA players. So a LW dream combo is instantly available to LA players, whereas LW players get random luck upon their weapon sets, and have to hope that they get a MWM in order to try for something different, which may or may not be a better weapon, a fact the LA players don't have to fear, since they can just max the + on whatever weapon they desire. The Mages/LA players can actually do more damage overall, and can get the weapons to do so much easier than the Warriors/LW players. Now on to the much debated Triple Damage. The fact that the mages get this from the start seems a bit unfair to me, but again, I'm stuck fighting every other player that isn't LA to get one, of which there are a limited number. So many of the Warrior class that can't get ahold of a TD are stuck relying on whatever weapons they happen to spawn with, or they made if they managed to get hold of a MWM which, as stated above, is no guarantee of a better weapon than what they have. The fact that the LA players can keep the TD going for much longer due to the Energy Drain/Leech abilities makes the TD even more powerful in their favor. Now, all this is taking into account that you are talking about damage output, and not simply talking about who has an easier time getting a higher score. Since I'm looking at damage over score, I'm leaving the Vorpal weapons out of the argument. Yes, they can be high damage, but if you run around with a +11 Vorpal Shock, you're more likely to get the one hit kill, which reduces your experience compared to someone killing the monster the old fashioned way. Now, some suggestions on how to fix these particular issues. Granted, these are my opinions, and I am woefully inept when it comes to programming languages, and ease of implementation. Please take them as such when formulating opinions about them. The Triple Damage: I propose removing it from the artifacts that the LA players spawn with, and replacing it with a 1.5 or Double damage that drains adrenaline at the same rate as it does with the recent upgrade. Then create a new ability for the LW players were they spawn with the TD and the Globe of Invincibility (or a damge reducing item), both of which would drain slower for the LW players. Since the LW players are meant to be the Warriors, they would be more adept at using damage or defensive increasing items (the reason for the slower drain), and would be able to use a higher level of each (the reason for the TD, instead of a Double). The Weapons: Perhaps giving LW players access the the Max Magic Modifier or Weapon +1 modifier would help, or even giving them the ability to get/create the (now reduced) vanilla weapons at their old values, or even a higher one. You could set it up so that the minimum for the weapons the LW spawn with is higher than what the actual minimum of the weapon is (example: LW can't spawn with anything less than a Vamp +5, instead of a possible +4, which I believe is the minimum). Maybe even setting it up so that the LW players get weapons that other classes can't access, even with a MWM. This isn't something I expect, or even consider fair, but having the LW players spawning with a Vorpal Sheild of some kind would make close to the Warrior types their supposed to be, since they would then be much stronger than the other classes when it comes to melee fighting. You would, of course, have balance issues and such to take into consideration with all of these. I don't know how the numbers would work out when it comes to overall damage output and such, but setting up the classes so that they are closer to the roles they were meant to represent seems like it would help players choose how they want to play. I'll admit right now that I prefer full-frontal brute force, which is why I stick primarily with LW. I'm sure that these opinions are biased, but I'd like to think that I thought this through objectively enough to come up with some decent ideas with my limited knowledge of what can be done. As always though, constructive criticism is always welcome. I do appologize to the medic players, though, for not including them in these arguments. I tend to think that the way they are set up is very, very well thought out for their intended role. Perhaps a thread by a more experienced Medic player about some of the issues you've run into?

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

320 — GMT

dip42 wrote:

Doesn't Energy Leech and Adrenal Drip give you ADL. everytime you hit somthing. So You would be able to run a global + triple for a long period of time if you just have somthing to hit. Also if you have a flak 3 energy than I think it would be hard for you to drain your ADL. if your shooting and killing stuff..

Dip, fortunately, it doesn't. It would be crazy. When you activate globe, triple, DMM or LR, Drip stops and Leach doesn't work. Surge does work, though. So for the stuff you do kill you get 2x the adren award. With an energy 3, a lot of stuff is possible though. The increased cost of the triple makes an energy flak very valuable to a LW player...

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Szlat — GMT

Wildfire wrote:

..... Then create a new ability for the LW players were they spawn with the TD and the Globe of Invincibility (or a damge reducing item), both of which would drain slower for the LW players. ...... Perhaps giving LW players access the the Max Magic Modifier or Weapon +1 modifier would help.....

I am not convinced that the way to improve LWs is to give them more artifacts. I much prefer your other suggestions about

Wildfire wrote:

You could set it up so that the minimum for the weapons the LW spawn with is higher than what the actual minimum of the weapon is (example: LW can't spawn with anything less than a Vamp +5, instead of a possible +4, which I believe is the minimum). Maybe even setting it up so that the LW players get weapons that other classes can't access, even with a MWM

But also, the initial suggestion of extra DR and DB (or protection and weapon proficiency) as suggested at the top of the thread and by others previously would significantly help LWs.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

BotFodder — GMT

I've been reading this thread on and off. Not to rain on everyone's parades, but: Class limits to stats (like DB/DR/HB, etc): Dru and/or Shan have stated elsewhere that they were considering, at one time, giving AM's a max of 250 adren, and all other classes only 200. It turns out that attempting to set this up is a code nightmare. I can only guess that doing that for any class and any stat would be similarly difficult. I to agree that adding starting artifacts to WM's are *not* the way to go. Ixnay, bad idea, blurs the line between WM and AM ... Similarly, extending Denial 3 to WMs has been expressed by Dru (I think - Dru will smoosh me properly if I'm wrong) as something that Won't Happen (much like extending Vamp or Regen to AMs). LW5 starts with all positive magic items, so they don't need Denial 3. AMs, on the other hand, can spend a good portion of the map time just making a set of weapons. Hence that's why they get Denial 3. I once suggested a LW6 where all the magical items would be maxed. Dru shot it down with a well thought out reason (nullifies the teamwork that exists with AMs). A modification of that, as expressed elsewhere, may not be out of the question, though ... if it were possible to ensure that all the magical items got + values greater than half of their max, I'd suggest that as LW6. Doesn't totally nullify the need for the occasional maxing, and would stop the wonderful "+0 Sturdy!" thing. God I hate getting one of those as a "positive" magic item - 0 is not positive! Dru and I have discussed the Pinata thing a bit - the end goal eventually is to allow classes other than AM to drop artifacts on death. While the coding of this has it's share of issues (which is why the limitation is not in yet), it's better than stopping the Pinata effect for every class - other classes will have to rely solely on "monster kill obtained" artifacts, whether they get it directly or through some non-AM's death. Dru at one time was also considering a WM only skill that would give them a permanent additional DB. Not sure what happened to that idea. Finally, the point that has been expressed about balance is of course a valid one - things are fairly balanced now as it is. New benefits for a single class must be considered very carefully. Besides, the beauty of the WM class is it's relative simplicity ... no artifacts to scroll through; at midbie to high levels, you just hit the ground running ...

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

RadicalROM — GMT

I agree balance is a tricky thing. Once you start playing with one class, you almost have to somehow adjust the other classes. Of course everyone wants their class improved.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Deunan — GMT

FodderFigure wrote:

2. The ability to purchase a weapon of choice and keep it between maps. These weapons could be upgradable with a slight devaluation of the "used" weapon. i.e. I buy a shock 4 for 20 stat points and then decide I'd rather have the infinite 3 link which sells for 30 stat points. I trade back my shock for a credit of 17 stat points and then I get my link for 30. There should be an initial cost for this ablity. A vorpol should cost 100 stat points

I like this idea but sort of modified. Because using the same weapon over and over can get boring, it would give a chance to change to a new one. However ultimately some LW players could quickly max out to Vorpal and in the long run, too many vorpals on one map isn't fun for everyone. Maybe do somthing like have LW's that are maxed spawn with a special MWM that breaks after the first use, but have the percentage/chance of getting a maxed weapon at say 30% just an idea to add on..

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

320 — GMT

Wildfire wrote:

I tend to think it has become a bit unbalanced in favor of the LA players, but that may just be the LW in me playing. My logic is as follows:

Wildfire... LA certainly "rules the roost", right now. There are many advantages...

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Spacey — GMT

As 320 said (and several folks have said otherwise)... drip and leach are off according to everything I can figure up by the math, etc. when an artifact such as the triple or globe are activated. So things are not as Wildfire or dip42 indicated, and I hope they now realize this. The only thing that gains a LA player adren which is not there for any other class is the surge skill, or that extra plus in a energy+4 (or any MAX+1) weapon. And while I am speaking of energy+4, made with that MAX+1 artifact and 250 adren...even when you are shooting and killing stuff, you have to be really careful. Even with an energy+4 or damage+5, I have to switch it on/off, and can seldom go for more than 25 sec even during a titan round on a map where I can do sprees. And globe+triple...sorry dip42, 320 is right, it is an adren killer. Total adren usage now is 26/sec, if I am remembering the numbers correctly, meaning roughly 9.5s max just standing there. Anything short of lots of titans generally does not help appreciably there, and things go so fast, I have pretty much figured most of the time, it is not worth it. Reason being, even turning it off and on in a single key, or selectively turning off/on either the globe or triple, you pretty much are constantly doing so, and there never is enough to really kill. But then again, I am still trying to judge what works best for my playing style with the changes in 1.9x. Now, wildfire suggests that a LA player can make a more powerful weapon. Wish it were so, but unfortunately, that is not a given, as it assumes that it is worth our adren and the time it takes to get it to max that sturdy, healing or penetrating weapon. And so, we spend countless hundreds of adren for all the times we use the MWM trying to get something, just to get that stupid sturdy+1 weapon. Or the even larger amounts to get the damage or energy weapon. And getting a vorpal is pure luck. As Bot said, this is one reason we get denial 3. And then there is the cooperation factor. I get a weapon LW players might like, I will max it and pass it out. Inf+4...does me no good, so I hand it out to some low level player, be they LW or LA, that does not have resupply. And a LW player wants that vorp or rage maxed...I spend the 150 adren to max it for them, wishing the vorp were mine, and hoping they might toss me something in return sometime (like the flak when we are on Face, or sniper or shock on some others, or a deemer on some other maps). Now, a couple of questions to think about, and perhaps even answer in your future posts... First, how many of you are looking at the LA players without having the experience of having played one, especially to the higher levels where things like the MAX+1, huge adren levels, etc. come into play? Say to at least level 62, which is going to cost you around 500pts for maxing just drip, leach, surge, adren, getting LW3 and denial 3, and any DB/DR needed to get the skills). That ignores health, ghost, and all the other stuff which would also prove helpful. My main character was around level 75 and a LW5 player when Dru created the LA class and allowed some of us to switch over...something which in retrospect probably was not a good thing. The only one I can think of at the moment who has played an LA player from scratch to a level higher than mine is 320. Fro is still down near 81 and does not have his adren adren skills maxed. And neither of these two players are what I would call a typical player, even on DC. Everyone else is a convert to my recollection. So I would ask you to please at least try playing a LA player to these higher levels before suggesting that there is an imballance. And if you have, please post your levels and how recently you have played the classes, so all of us know your experience with things. But I will tell you, when 320 says something comparing the two, even I give what he says some thoughts, even with my player being level 124, and #40 on the list of players. Secondly, can you point to data showing this imballance? I will tell you right now, if you are looking at players like 320 or some of the other higher level players and their scores relative to others, consider how they score when they play LW or even medic. They are probably still up there. And even for an individual, sometimes there can be a bias in their style which favors their LA or LW player. I will even say this could be true between my lvl 24 LW player and my LA player when I was around lvl 90. My lvl 24 LW player average score is probably nearly that which I got with my lvl 90 LA player, and at times, even my lvl 1240 LA player. My point here is that even with a few individuals showing the imballance between their LW, LA and medic players, the statistical sample may be too small. Also, when it comes to something like a permanent additional DB, how much should something like that cost??? When you think about it, that is really the equivilent of a LA player using the MAX+1 on a weapon worth doing that to. So should it cost the same as it cost the LA player to be able to do that? That would be 250pts, ignoring the requirement to be LA2, and the fact that without denial3, a death makes that perment. That would add on more points. So, I hope you realize that it would be very easy to tip things too far the other way. I personally do not envy Dru with the headaches he may have created for himself when he created classes, even if it is fun. And that is ignoring the griping that a number of us (including myself) have done. My hat is off to ya man!

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Spacey — GMT

320 wrote:

Wildfire wrote:

I tend to think it has become a bit unbalanced in favor of the LA players, but that may just be the LW in me playing. My logic is as follows:
Wildfire... LA certainly "rules the roost", right now. There are many advantages...

Is it that LA rules the roost, or that many of the persons currently playing LA rule the roost, particularly when playing LA??

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

320 — GMT

Spacey wrote:

320 wrote:

Wildfire wrote:

I tend to think it has become a bit unbalanced in favor of the LA players, but that may just be the LW in me playing. My logic is as follows:
Wildfire... LA certainly "rules the roost", right now. There are many advantages...
Is it that LA rules the roost, or that many of the persons currently playing LA rule the roost, particularly when playing LA??

Secondly, can you point to data showing this imballance? I will tell you right now, if you are looking at players like 320 or some of the other higher level players and their scores relative to others, consider how they score when they play LW or even medic. They are probably still up there. And even for an individual, sometimes there can be a bias in their style which favors their LA or LW player. I will even say this could be true between my lvl 24 LW player and my LA player when I was around lvl 90. My lvl 24 LW player average score is probably nearly that which I got with my lvl 90 LA player, and at times, even my lvl 1240 LA player. My point here is that even with a few individuals showing the imballance between their LW, LA and medic players, the statistical sample may be too small.

Player skill/knowledge/practice versus class advantages can be difficult to discern, however, I think LA has the advantage right now. Not in all scenarios, not on all maps, etc, but in the majority of cases, particularly when medics are playing and when the server is crowded. When the server is not crowded, (say 10 people or less) the versatility and survivability of LW probably makes it the strongest. Two weeks ago when the triple-double was still available, this wasn't true, however. I overstated the case in my reply to wildfire, it's not a *huge* imbalance as I sort of implied. In terms of a head-to-head comparison, the differences are only really evident when both players are high level and very skilled. In other words, I don't think the majority of players need be concerned that they might be playing a "weaker" class. They can improve their scores most through practice and trying new strategies, not by switching classes.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

320 — GMT

RadicalROM wrote:

I agree balance is a tricky thing. Once you start playing with one class, you almost have to somehow adjust the other classes. Of course everyone wants their class improved.

Very tricky. And by accident, design or both the situation is much better than most people realize on DC. When I used to play Street Fighter fanatically there were often huge character balance issues. Serious players even seperate the different characters into tiers. So if you're playing someone who's really good, you better pull out your top-tier character or you'll get owned.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Fraggerman — GMT

Spacey wrote:

...So I would ask you to please at least try playing a LA player to these higher levels before suggesting that there is an imballance. ...

320 wrote:

Wildfire... LA certainly "rules the roost", right now. There are many advantages...

Spacey wrote:

Is it that LA rules the roost, or that many of the persons currently playing LA rule the roost, particularly when playing LA??

320 is a high level player, so I will trust his statement. Although.... there are a few LW players around which may challenge the "LAs rule the roost" statement. :wink:

Spacey wrote:

First, how many of you are looking at the LA players without having the experience of having played one

It's a bit unfair to ask someone to dedicate many hours to the LA character before allowing them to comment on it.

Spacey wrote:

My lvl 24 LW player average score is probably nearly that which I got with my lvl 90 LA player

Not that I doubt you but this is hard to believe. I wouldn't mind seeing a recent score from your LW player compared to a recent score from your LA player. It looks like you like numbers and comparing, so I think you might enjoy it. I only ask this because I think the classes are pretty equal, no one seems to be running away with the scores when there is a player of equal level from another class playing against them.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

320 — GMT

I think the classes are close enough right now that nothing really needs to be done. Player skill is still king. One class or another may have different potential, but it's not worth losing sleep over. LW is still the most well-rounded class - a very smooth progression as you level up and predictable returns on your stat points. I recommend everyone try both and play the one they enjoy the most. I like both so I switch back and forth alot. I even have different user.ini files for each with different keybinds to cater to the different play styles.

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

Hobo_Joe — GMT

Fraggerman wrote:

Spacey wrote:

First, how many of you are looking at the LA players without having the experience of having played one
It's a bit unfair to ask someone to dedicate many hours to the LA character before allowing them to comment on it.

He never said they couldn't comment on it before they tried it..but you need to remember that a lot of time people come up with their own ideas from what they've heard from other people..then if they do try it they find out something else.

320 wrote:

I think the classes are close enough right now that nothing really needs to be done. Player skill is still king. One class or another may have different potential, but it's not worth losing sleep over.

I agree...I have one of each class. I've played them all and they seem extremely well balanced to me. I personally don't see how Dru can get them any more balanced then they already are

Re:Loaded Weapson players need something, but what???

kyraeu — GMT

I personally do not have a LW character for the reason that 1) there are enough of them already and 2) if I wanted to play one I would just go to another server that doesn't do classes. Which is why I am mostly LA. If we didn't pinata, I am pretty sure that LA would get a huge boost. I think that LA beats LW at my level (40-50), if I can keep alive like they can. High-level LWs still own my score, but I'm a lot closer than I would think. Dip and I had a vorpal 10 shock contest a few days ago, and I was really lucky to win - he got stepped on a few times. I probably should not comment so much, seeing as I don't know how LWs work on this server - so I'll end this post here. Suffice to say my opinion is that LA > LW.