Latest posts for the topic "Lightning Rod - Ver 190"

Lightning Rod - Ver 190

320 — GMT

My suggestions: 1. Piercing instead of like a super weapon and takes into account player DB. 2. Only eats adren if it's hurting something, or eats something totally negligible (like 1 every 5 seconds). Since it shuts down drip (and probably leach too?), cost is already high. 3. If not player DB, just more dmg, maybe 7 - 10 per sec. EDIT: per shot, not per sec., already does 10 per sec. 4. Possible limited targets so adren consuption is slightly predictable. Maybe 4 max targets, so worst case is 24 adren per second. But maybe with limited targets, dmg goes to 10 per shot?

Re:Lightning Rod

BotFodder — GMT

In my experience, at this time, it does not stop leech. Are you sure it stops drip? Dru and I were discussing this just after 190 went in, and we both kind of think that (at least this is what I think Dru said when I brought it up; he'll smoosh me appropriately if I'm wrong): 1) It's not eating Adren fast enough, or something (needs to stop leech?). 2) It's not quite doing the damage it should. Thing is, with a bunch of other bugs that popped up, I think this isn't the highest thing on his list right now.

Lightning Rod

KohanX — GMT

Yeh, I think the Lightning Rod should just do 40 damage solid (or something similar, just make it solid), no modifiers, no nothing. And it shouldn't eat up anything while not doing anything; it's more of a convenience that it's an automatic (firing style) artifact. I say, either remove the idle cost or make it semi-automatic. As in, press U once for each time you want to use it. Just my thoughts.

Re:Lightning Rod

320 — GMT

It should be low priority. I posted it but I hope I didn't come off as demanding. The idea for it is very cool. I should also point out what's right about it to balance out my comments. The biggest good thing is that it cannot be run indefinately under any profitable circumstances (unless I missed something). Even with maxed leach, drip, surge and flak 4 energy, it was still causing my adren to bottom out *hard*. If it were possible to run it throughout a wave and not have to worry about turning it off, that wouldn't be good. On the flipside, it has to still be accessible to low level players, and maybe, just maybe if it works out that it's best for low levels, that would be good, too. Sort of like when I suggested that rage should drain you down to 150 (it ended up becoming 80, but same idea). A low level with little health boost can use it without nearly the "cost" as a high level. Fortunately, with an adren gap of 150 between beginner and high level, the amount isn't too much. Another way to approach it, in consideration of low levels is: 1. Make it not stack with triple 2. Keep it at 5 dmg per zap. 3. Even lower adren cost (maybe 1 adren per zap). 4. No constant drain adren cost. 5. Maybe limit max targets? (for potential server load reasons, no idea what happens when 5+ people activate LR.) What this will do is make it so that a high level would be better off spending his/her adren elsewhere. But a low level can trigger it and pick up some exp. So at 100 adren, you get 500 hp dmg, which would translate to around 20 exp. Maybe the dmg, etc. would need tweaking. Again, just an idea. Also, what about a Medic lightning rod? Several people were discussing the idea of a group heal for medics. This would do it. Unfortunately, I'm not a coder, or I'd try some of this myself. I only play one on TV. I could test stuff though. :wink:

Re:Lightning Rod

320 — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

In my experience, at this time, it does not stop leech. Are you sure it stops drip? Dru and I were discussing this just after 190 went in, and we both kind of think that (at least this is what I think Dru said when I brought it up; he'll smoosh me appropriately if I'm wrong): 1) It's not eating Adren fast enough, or something (needs to stop leech?). 2) It's not quite doing the damage it should. Thing is, with a bunch of other bugs that popped up, I think this isn't the highest thing on his list right now.

It definately stops drip. Once you activate it, it eats adren at a constant 1/sec until it hits something. So with drip 3 (which grants 1/sec) if it were working, my adren shouldn't move. If it's going to eat the arbitrary 1/sec, it kind of has to stop drip to be fair. A compromise might be 1 adren every 2 seconds. Not sure about leach. Surge is still surge. Except in France they call it Le Surge. :P

Re:Lightning Rod

Szlat — GMT

I haven't tried the new lightning rod yet, so I have no direct feedback based on the changes yet. And I am reluctant to comment on things I haven't tried yet, but... My main problem with the rod in the past is that it doesn't really achieve anything. It only does around 10 damage a second to a monster. Monsters small enough to be bothered by the rod rarely live more than a few seconds once they are in close proximity to players anyway. So, it might soften up a number of monsters slightly, but you are still going to have to shoot it anyway. So, why not just use the triple? One hundred adrenaline on the rod will do about 330 or so damage. About one shot of a tripled flak. I would prefer something that did lots of damage to one monster, rather than scratching lots of monsters. Single shot bolt, using 100 adrenaline to take out a warlord. I would use that. At least you have killed something. Just a thought.

Re:Lightning Rod

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

Did it used to stack with triple, and are you sure that it doesn't do so still? I thought it was when I tried it out, but I suppose I could be mistaken. 40 damage is quite simply flat out of the picture. This would kill a player with 100 health in a second and a half.

Lightning Rod

KohanX — GMT

But we aren't killing players. Monsters have a good deal more Health than players. For example, a Behemoth has 260 Health. Tell me, how many 5-damage shocks would it take to kill one? 52. That's 26 seconds. With 40 damage, it actually *does* something. Warlords have 500 health. Heck, even a Pupae has 60 Health, which would still take two hits to take down. I actually have no idea where that idea came from, but something told me that it used to do 40 Damage O.o. Perhaps you could have an UberLightning Rod that costs 200 Adrenaline for one blast :D. The single-direction lightning rod sounds interesting, almost like an ubered Lightning Gun. Perhaps it could do 40 solid damage to the nearest visible monster to the player's targeting reticle. I dunno, but scratching 50 monsters doesn't quite help as much as owning one. Maybe you could do an all-or-nothing (misleading adjective) lightning artifact that either took all their health or all your adrenaline, whichever ends first, at a ratio of 2 Health to 1 Adrenaline or something. Yeah, that makes a fully charged Merchant able to take down a Warlord. Whatever, you don't have to listen to me.

Lightning Rod

TheDruidXpawX — GMT

KohanX wrote:

Whatever, you don't have to listen to me.

Good, I thought I wasn't going to have a choice in the matter! As a reminder, one of the rules each of you agree to when you sign up to play on our server is no crybabies and no bad attitudes. I wont comment further on that here.

KohanX wrote:

But we aren't killing players. Monsters have a good deal more Health than players.

That's a good point. Maybe the LR needs to take a percentage of the total life away each hit instead of just 5 damage.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

320 — GMT

After using the lightning rod, the fact is (IME), it can't be counted on to kill, or benefit the accomplished player. The natural conclusion is that it benefits the low/mid level player the most. In my own opinion, it should be modified as such, or for healers. Any random damage *gauranteed* event is something a focused player can *not* count on (unless it's negligent), because if it is, it's overpowered. With the gauranteed non-aim and damage of the LR, this falls under that category, squarely. The auto-aim of the avril is one of the reasons it is so powerful (but balanced against long reload and a relatively slow moving projectile). Really, it can't be a tool of the accomplished (skilled) player, or it would be an exploit. Any insta-aim weapon *must* have diminishing returns. It's a skill-less artifact - let's face it. Auto-aim is skill-less. And following basic game logic, any insta-aim weapon must necessarily be low-powered. Beneficial to a point, but at some point achieveing sharply diminishing returns, whereupon their skill and experience takes over.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

Szlat — GMT

320 wrote:

And following basic game logic, any insta-aim weapon must necessarily be low-powered. Beneficial to a point, but at some point achieveing sharply diminishing returns, whereupon their skill and experience takes over.

Good point

Lightning Rod

BotFodder — GMT

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

KohanX wrote:

But we aren't killing players. Monsters have a good deal more Health than players.
That's a good point. Maybe the LR needs to take a percentage of the total life away each hit instead of just 5 damage.

Or perhaps a combination of a % or flat damage, whichever is more? Or could you set it up to do two different damage styles, depending on monsters vs players? *We* aren't killing players, but is anyone out there using Dru's mod in a PvP setting? If they are, Dru needs to make the decision to code for this or not code for this, and leave it up to the server admins to either not use his mod or code extensions. I think the early problem with the LR has been that it didn't kill much. It should very well kill skeeters and pupae, cows and rabbits, in a relatively short period of time, but only give some rough assistance to combatting larger creatures. Maybe, just maybe, it should, in an invasion setting, not use DB/DR. But in PvP, it probably should? I dunno ... just throwin it out there ... EDIT: Now that I Think about it, maybe it should in INV use DB, but ignore the monsters DR (I think 320 suggested this). On PvP, it should use both? And bump the damage up to like 15 or so? Someone with max DB would (if my math is right) be doing 27 a hit before any DR was figured in ... So pupae would go down in a second and a half with someone having max DB. It would take a full 2 seconds (4 shots) for someone with no DB. Or heck, even 10 base damage would be 2 seconds vs 3 seconds ...

Lightning Rod

kyraeu — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

*We* aren't killing players, but is anyone out there using Dru's mod in a PvP setting?

Yes. I play on a server which does that quite regularly. ... But I think we're still on druid's 153 or something in there. Everyone's still one class. The lightning rod is just as useless in PvP as it is in invasion, if anyone wondered. It is very annoying to hear you character scream out in pain regularly while trying to kill someone, but that's about all.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

Moof — GMT

From a WM's point of view, the lightning rod currently uses just the right amount of adrenaline. Low damage though. Heh. Edit so I don't sound quite so grumpy: We should keep an artifact or two in the game whose adrenaline usage doesn't lock it to LA players only. The triple and globe and all are wonderful, but if I use them, I get a few solid seconds out of them, and if I even tap them, I've eliminated booster for a few kills. I understand that should stay and is proper as a balance issue. However, for me, the adrenaline usage of the lightning rod as it now stands feels like I actually get some usage time out of it. Then, if the damage were tweaked up a bit, it would be a solid artifact for non-LA players to use.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

320 — GMT

Hmm.. I like szlat's death bolt idea, but it has to require aim. Random death bolt might hit the pupae or it might hit the queen. I guess if the cost is 100 or whatever, the random aspect might be a good thing. Hmm.. Totally random idea from left field: what if it was "get away from me" weapon? Like if you've ever played Final Fight or variation, you can hit all three buttons and the char performs a "super move" which knocks all the bad guys back, but drains a small amount of health. So, say you're surrounded by titans or warlords, you hit the lightning rod and it knocks them all back. Maybe 50 adren per zap. Imagine something like that on Megawoot! Course, you might knock that titan into Botfodder and kill him accidently. :D The problem with percentage stuff is that depending on the monster's health, you might be doing little or nothing. Say it's 10%. So you shoot at a titan, first shot 90 dmg. Second shot, 81 dmg, etc. When it's down to 50 health, it does 5 dmg. I suspect that percent dmg based on base health values is more difficult to code (i.e. the LR "knowing" that titan base health is 900, so when monster = titan, dmg = .1*900, etc. I will offer my mad qbasic pivot table skillz to code this.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

Spacey — GMT

320 wrote:

Totally random idea from left field: what if it was "get away from me" weapon? Like if you've ever played Final Fight or variation, you can hit all three buttons and the char performs a "super move" which knocks all the bad guys back, but drains a small amount of health. So, say you're surrounded by titans or warlords, you hit the lightning rod and it knocks them all back. Maybe 50 adren per zap. Imagine something like that on Megawoot!

Oh Geez... I have visions of Neo going up against Agent Smiths, getting burried, and all of a sudden BOOM, all the Agent Smiths go flying. 8) Now, segway to a game where a player wearing a Neo skin is becoming the center of a Queen/Warlord dogpile. 8) 8)

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

320 — GMT

EDIT: Now that I Think about it, maybe it should in INV use DB, but ignore the monsters DR (I think 320 suggested this). On PvP, it should use both? And bump the damage up to like 15 or so? Someone with max DB would (if my math is right) be doing 27 a hit before any DR was figured in ...

I think you did 80 percent DB instead of 40. But, yeah, I mentioned piercing, but only because it would tack on some dmg due to player DB. Whether it's done that way or the base is just increased doesn't really matter. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be tough to make it balanced if it stacked with the triple.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

BotFodder — GMT

320 wrote:

I think you did 80 percent DB instead of 40.

Yeah I keep forgetting that it's 0.5% per point.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

Grizzled_Imposter — GMT

Actulay, I have use for the lightning rod for my LW. Its just a little too expensive for my AM but my LW does not use his adrennaline for anything but booster anyway. sometimes, the LR lets me do the killing blow on a monster that is being damaged by another player, this contributes to kill awards. see, when you are like 320 or bot or fro, a monster comes into view: flack, lightning gone, elapsed time .27 seconds..... I am not that good of a player. LR helps me. It could be more offensive, it could be cheeper, but I like it were it is.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

Continuum — GMT

Ended up getting a couple lightning rods today, I think the upped damage is close to right and the fact that it doesnt drain adren unless there are monsters nearby is a plus. It did drain fast when there were a bunch of monsters around but then again the char I was playing with had no adren bonus so I'll have to try it with another char too.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

BotFodder — GMT

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:

see, when you are like 320 or bot or fro, a monster comes into view: flack, lightning gone, elapsed time .27 seconds..... I am not that good of a player. LR helps me.

Heh nice to be lumped in with that crowd ... I must admit that even with max HB on BotBooster (at 57, my lowest level character), he hasn't been doing well lately. He's only got 150 adren, won't be adding more for like probably 40 levels, and has no ghost, either. So the LR on high health monsters goes quick, and I've been more obsessed lately with seeking the precious ... I even went back to using the triple (using the MWM sparingly) but one slip of the wrong finger and then there's no adren again ... so if I do use it, it will probably be only on 6, 12, 14, and 16. Not saying these changes are bad, but with BB, I'm feeling them. My medic I haven't played much in 190+, and haven't brought BotFodder to see what life is like with him, either. From a purely xp stand point, I used to be able to clear an easy 1K per map. My average is probably 200 pts lower now ... We'll see what life is like in 10 or so levels when I get some Surge, and then max our DR after that ... and then maybe what life is like after Ghost.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

320 — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

I must admit that even with max HB on BotBooster (at 57, my lowest level character), he hasn't been doing well lately. He's only got 150 adren, won't be adding more for like probably 40 levels, and has no ghost, either. So the LR on high health monsters goes quick, and I've been more obsessed lately with seeking the precious ... I even went back to using the triple (using the MWM sparingly) but one slip of the wrong finger and then there's no adren again ... so if I do use it, it will probably be only on 6, 12, 14, and 16. Not saying these changes are bad, but with BB, I'm feeling them. My medic I haven't played much in 190+, and haven't brought BotFodder to see what life is like with him, either. From a purely xp stand point, I used to be able to clear an easy 1K per map. My average is probably 200 pts lower now ... We'll see what life is like in 10 or so levels when I get some Surge, and then max our DR after that ... and then maybe what life is like after Ghost.

This situation will mostly change for the better on your artifact char when you get surge.

Re:Lightning Rod - Ver 190

Continuum — GMT

surge can be more usefull than drip or leach especially against the smaller monsters, I noticed a lot bigger jump from buying surge than I did from buying either drip or leach.