Latest posts for the topic "FLAK +5!?!?!?!"

FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Shadow-X — GMT

Is there any way to leave them in the game just do what ooo said.Make them noncopyable where there is a * so we can't pass them around like candy...

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Mach10 — GMT

I don't see why Dru couldn't, but I think most everything for Druids 190 is set in stone and no flak 5 and RL 5 is apart of that.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Shadow-Yoda — GMT

TECHNICALLY there will still be flak 5s (unless Dru takes out Flak 4s). Just get an Energy Master to give it a +1. But sadly, no flak 6

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Hobo_Joe — GMT

Adren. master's can't toss weapons they've used the +1 modifier on...

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Mach10 — GMT

Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't Dru scrapping all plus flak's and rocket's? Or, only the +5's?

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

deidog — GMT

I know he said +5 vanilla . So I was thinking the 4 and less would stay but thats just interpratation. Not positive.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Fraggerman — GMT

I see a slippery slope ahead and I, for one, am putting on my boots. I don't see why a plus 5 flak is so much more evil than a plus four. Is their damage all that different? The answer is "NO" and soon we'll see the plus four thrown out too, then the three, and before we know it we will have all slipped to the bottom of that slope and find ourselves defending ourselves with either weapons which can't be passed out or a batch of assult rifles.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

I already changed my playstyle so i dont rely on Flak 5 Anymore. If i get any of those: Protection Null Entropy Rage Freezing (When Freezing effect gets fixed) I dont take a Flak 5. So once Vanilla Flaks are out, its not gonna be a so drastic change, I just accepted it :) And believe me, I think Protection and Null are better than Flak 5! Just ask a AM to max them for you and you will see the real power of them! If Tripple change tough thats another story ...

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

[KitFox wrote:

]I already changed my playstyle so i dont rely on Flak 5 Anymore. If i get any of those: Protection Null Entropy Rage Freezing (When Freezing effect gets fixed) I dont take a Flak 5. So once Vanilla Flaks are out, its not gonna be a so drastic change, I just accepted it :) And believe me, I think Protection and Null are better than Flak 5! Just ask a AM to max them for you and you will see the real power of them! If Tripple change tough thats another story ...

Yeah, I agree. When I started my LA char, I had to make a ton of changes. I used the mines and avril religiously with LW. Mines, avril, lightning and flak were 99% of my arsenal. So I "lost" 50% of my weps in giving LA a go. But I just started learning and exploiting artifact strategies, maxing and tripling everything. No more flak 5? No problem, I'll just figure something else out. I know the majority of players are "casual" and don't play with the commitment that some of us do, but if you want to get good, you have to just live with the idea that nothing is permanent and that the good strategies are ones you're probably not going to be comfortable with at first. In other words, someone who's good at deathmatch and just wants to do their awesome DM strats over and over and wonders why he isn't winning is never gonna get good until he tosses the majority of that DM stuff in the garbage can. I'm not worried about this change at all from the standpoint of "can I still get big points." I'm only concerned about the changes from the standpoint of it diminishing the fun factor or killing key tactics that I think add a lot of depth to the game. I don't like the lowered power of the flak and RL because they are both great combo weapons and combos are not easy to pull off consistently, which is a good thing. You get more kills but it takes more practice and skill. I think if you use two or more weapons in an intelligent combination to achieve a kill a half-second faster than the other guy, that kill should be yours the majority of the time, which is the way it is now. I like that dynamic. It's that dynamic that makes the game fun for me. I'll save everybody a lot of time and future gnashing of teeth, though. If the flak 5 goes, the mini 5 should go with it. The mini 5 + triple is actually worse overall than a flak 5 in terms of its effect on gameplay. - kills at nearly the same rate as a flak 5 in actual gameplay (ROF figures might say differently). - no self dmg - double the effective range of the flak - eats ammo quickly. Meaning, high levels with resupply 4 and a high max ammo stat will be able to capitalize, while lower level players get murdered. When people were complaining about not needing to aim with the flak 5, I just shook my head. The mini is even more forgiving of bad aim. And you can't use it to combo, really, because of the spool-up time, so combo skill isn't rewarded. Way less skill than a flak, overall, but similar effects. I'm with the idea that a vanilla +flak should be non-copyable, or each plus should equal maybe 5-7% instead of 10%, or do both. Yeah, I know the decision is probably a done-deal and in the long and short, it's no biggee in terms of winning or losing. Just in how I play the game. :P

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Spacey — GMT

What miffs me is that some of us are playing smarter, using tricks like "artifact X with weapon Y", we start making a killing, somebody whines about it, and next thing we see that trick nerfed. Sheesh! I thought given what was said when the sprees were added that it was all about playing smarter, not harder. But I guess some folks think that regardless of how the older players are now higher levels, and we have things like combos, the rest of us should still be getting crappy scores. To be perfectly honest, since this latest nerfing announcement, I have made several adjustments to my game. They include: 1) I have mostly stopped relying on normal damage weapons. I have been going more and more towards using rage (only way I can keep up with the LW players with their +80% damage bonuses right now), with other types such as piercing, inf, vamp (if I can ever get it) or that oh so mythical vorpal (which I have long since given up on trying to make). And like Kit, I think the Prot is a good one as well. But given my close-up playing style, Null, Freezing and Poison are generally suicidal at the moment. 2) I have mostly stopped handing out normal damage weapons, unless I have been given one to max. 3) I have been handing out fewer other weapons, including non-clonables, even to lower level players. I used to try to hand these out, but most of the time, either nobody wants them, or I am too busy trying to make a good weapon to wait for someone to come get it. BTW...This applies to INF weapons like the RL or flak. I used to find someone to take them given my resupply does pretty good even at constant fire. But now I am more likely to either play with it (hey, +12% is nothing to sneeze at now) or remake it in the hopes of getting a rage. 4) Maxing? I need my adren more (I now max at 230) for trying to make a good weapon worth maxing for myself, or for things like booster or globe to keep myself alive if/when I finally do get that rage rl, flak, or shock. So unless you have something good for me or have done me a good turn, I generally do not have the adren. 5) Globe?? Some of the medics may remember that I was pretty much tossing it to the first one to heal me, since they tended to be even more fragile than my LA player at times. Can any one of them remember the last time I did that?? 6) Points allocation...well, lets just say that in preparation for the next great nerfing of the LA players (who should use adren more efficently than LW or medics IMO), I have changed how I am spending my points for the next half dozen levels or so. There is more, but I will be darned if I am going to give away more of my secrets so someone can cry about how well I am scoring and end up getting yet another trick nerfed. And if they don't like it, well...let's just say that if approached outside of DC, I would be making references to threaded hardware and pointing out that with a bit of practice, I can still at least hold my own with the bots set on godlike with a little practice (given how different INV is from things like DM, CTF, LMS, etc.)

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

Forget that. I'm unable to express what i think.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

deidog — GMT

[KitFox wrote:

]Here is my Definitive Point of View: 4) 3 LA players are making people mad. Me, 320, Ooo. And in my Opinion, its not because we are LAs. Its because we are crazy gamers. End of Story.

I didn't even realize people were getting mad over something. I thought Druid just decided they were too powerfull for some reason... How the heck could anyone get mad at you 3 anyway? Getting mad at you ,ooo and 320 is kinda like getting mad at a cuddly teddy bear.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

deidog wrote:

[KitFox wrote:

]Here is my Definitive Point of View: 4) 3 LA players are making people mad. Me, 320, Ooo. And in my Opinion, its not because we are LAs. Its because we are crazy gamers. End of Story.
I didn't even realize people were getting mad over something. I thought Druid just decided they were too powerfull for some reason... How the heck could anyone get mad at you 3 anyway? Getting mad at you ,ooo and 320 is kinda like getting mad at a cuddly teddy bear.

Well, *I* think I'm a teddy bear. I've been eating a lot of junk food lately and not exercising as much as I should so I'm kind of squishy at present. (Still devastatingly handsome, though, not to mention incredibly charming, a great sense of humor - the list goes on. But I digress...) Kit changed his post so as not to offend. But what can I say to answer your question? It's ultimately a touchy subject on this server and really goes to the core. One that I think has been running in the undercurrent for quite some time. I think all the top players feel it in some way. It boils down to two basically different mentalities on this server: "play for fun" vs "competitive play", which is what, in the end, truly differentiates the average player from the top player. Time to maybe call a spade a spade and break it all down. When I used to play EQ, there was this strong belief among the majority of players that "levels = power" and "levels = skill". It was this idea that if you leveled up and got all the fancy items and weapons, now you're "good" and automatically deserving of respect. I think that's half the reason people played EQ - the belief that if you leveled up enough, you would attain "automatic" status as "good". To put it all quite simply: Status I see the same thing in all games that have levels and classes (not to mention in life itself). In EQ it got ridiculous, to the point of absurdity. People would play politics and worm their way onto the top guilds and suddenly they're "good" and flash tons of attitude. Mess with them and you were supposedly messing with their whole guild. Too often they were mediocre. Stupidness. I'm not saying this is synonymous with DC, but the "levels = skill = respect" element is definately there, that belief, that undercurrent. But what happens when a low level beats a high level, or one class beats another? Some people jump to the conclusion that something must be broken in the game. See, it's a tough pill to swallow that maybe you got outplayed by superior skill, practice and strategy. I've been there. I recall recieving ludicrous beatdowns at the hands of Ooo playing the "weaker LA class" (the prevalent belief at the time, even my own). I was like, "What? Is this guy using an aimbot or something?" See, initially that was my inner scrub talking. But then I slapped myself with that stupid talk. "Dang. How am I gonna even this up? I need to rotate my flow." I didn't start thinking, "LA must have some unfair advantages". I didn't think I "deserved" to win just because I'd won countless times before or because I had 20 levels on him. I went back to the drawing board, spectated Fro a bit and ripped off most of his stuff, invented a few of my own tricks. And eventually the flow was back on. I got speed switcher 2 and delved into the combo theory. I took it to the next level. Thankfully, the general idea that LA can't compete has been soundly defeated. Ooo has the top score right now (and rightly earned) on the high score table, and even if it is later defeated, the point has been made in abundance: LA can play. LA can hang. No changes to the LA class are required so that they can "compete". But getting back to the original point, another belief I feel is short-sighted is this idea that if you go for score or play to win or fight aggresively, that you're not a "team player". I experienced this atttitude more when I played LW, but now that I'm playing LA (again, the so-called "weaker class"), the sentiment has sort of abated. Why? I'm handing out the good weapons (which I spent my adren to max) and not scrambling for a triple... and I'm healing when I get a healing gun. When I die, I'm telling people there's a triple out there. Nutshell-wise, I'm basically leaving no excuses for anyone to accuse me of being some sort of "griefer". But, I'm still winning. LOL yes I still win. One sentiment that needs to be rebuked is this "play for fun" thing, like "playing to win" the scoreboard, or killing as much stuff as your ability allows is somehow not fun or against the team or a bad thing. I play for fun and I'm having fun, a ton of fun. If I wasn't having fun I wouldn't play. I don't participate to torture myself. Nor, should I add, do I play to stomp newbies or assert myself among them. I really don't care about newbies. I care about whoever is number 2 on the scoreboard, and about increasing the distance between me and him/her. When played at the highest level of this game, when going toe-to-toe with another fighter, strugging and straining for each and every kill, there's a certain beauty to it, a graceful dance of strategic execution and accuracy - of refined, practiced perfection. A very fine line between a win and a loss. You will see (if you look hard) in those moments when two good players go head up, the true pinnacle of the way this game can be played. It's on the next level. Never fails to awe me, even when I'm neck deep in it. The player that desires to get there, that can look his ego in the face and who's not afraid to test his limits and limitations, can learn from it. Those that can't will simply scoff, or say "I could have done that" or "it's just a game, why take it so seriously?" Or, speaking to the topic of this thread and several others, "xyz weapon is too powerful" and "xyz class is too powerful and needs to be nerfed". Sometimes there are valid arguments for modifying weapons, class, etc. But the majority of time, these arguments are simply a masquerade. Here's the tough truth: you just plain lost. No, not because of a flak 5. Not because the other guy was LW and you were LA or vice versa. Not because of a triple. Not because he's high level and you're not. You got outplayed, that's why you lost. No shame in losing. Learn and get better. Play harder. Yeah, it's a game. Yeah it's stupid and meaninless. Stupid game. What's the point? Why get so worked up? So who wants to win this game? I welcome the challenge. I hope to see you there!

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

Nice writing 320. Clearly you got skill not only in game :P I tough about it again and what i wanted to say is: very selective LA players makes LA class look pwerfull. But its not because of the class. Its because of what 320 just wrote, and it ends up that those player have chosen LA. Why? For me, it was because LA looked harder and its a lot more challenging :)

But, I'm still winning. LOL yes I still win.

Ahem.. /:) not always :lol:

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

deidog — GMT

yeah , I know what ya mean about the caual vs hardcore gamer thing. I too played EQ for several years. I was a Raider myself , so I understand the mentallity very well. The behavior of some of the people at that level is amazing. I remember recruiting being so difficult because some people really would have 2 personalities , a nice little prospect and then a dickhead member that wanted phat loots. Actually that often did follow with a 3rd ... the pissy ex-guildie with an attitude. I'm surprised to see that much of a similar attitude here though.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

BotFodder — GMT

Skilled LA players: I'm not saying for 100% sure that this is the case. Take it as anecdotal evidence of the feeling I have ... I went from halfway through 30th level last night to well into 34th with BotBooster in a *very* short period of time. Yes, I know, there's double XP. I know that leveling requirements are relaxed. But I know that, while I was going up pretty fast with my Medic, I wasn't going up *that* fast (though there's some debate about whether healing xp has been doubled or not, and you could argue that I didn't spend an entire afternoon as my medic, but rotated characters regularly). And I doubt I would have gone up that fast with my WM (mind you he's 104th and if I wanted I could probably get him up a full level in less than 6 hours of solid play with the double XP). For an average map as my 100+ WM I'm probably clearing 2500 XP duing this double XP extravaganza (on a good map I'm hitting 3000, 3500). Didn't pay that much attention, so don't take it as definite. Maybe I had a good couple of maps (it didn't feel that way, I died a lot - but someone did mention that the player base was a bit smaller than usual for most of the afternoon), but I was probably getting close to 2500 XP a map as my barely in his 30s AM, and I spent *a lot* of the time while I was doing that good maxing and making weapons (the triple was less than secondary - think more like tertiary to my play during this day). I'd say within 5-6 maps I went up those four levels. And maybe, I'll admit, I was in a "zone," and both my play and my sense of time were altered. If the server had the ability to do so without struggling, though, it would be interesting to see logs of xp rates for the players that play a full map (logs including player name, class, and xp earned). 320 - another bit of anecdotal info - remember when you were asking people to Deemer me when I was about to beat your score? You are currently an AM at 87th. I am a WM around 104th. I could only keep pace with you (IIRC, you had at least 200 points on me at the end of wave 14) because I was lucky enough to get a Triple. The only way I beat you was that you died early on 16, and I managed to stay alive. I'd argue that I may not be as good a player as you, but I'm not that bad of a player, and I had to get lucky to beat you. Conversely, you had to suffer some bad luck in the process. But then better to be lucky than good. I'm not mad. I'm not saying there's definitely an imbalance. I haven't seen clear evidence either way - but I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence. If you want to ignore "skill" and go for amount of play, I think most would agree I spend a lot of time (depending on the weekday, anywhere from 3-6 hours minimum, and almost all day on the weekends) on DC. I think that rates me among the notables ... Now, playing Devil's Advocate, I will say that Monday, the couple of times I tried to play my AM, I just couldn't catch a break - gave up and switch to my Medic, IIRC (and I have the memory of a gnat sometimes). Coming in at any wave past 11 sucks (particularly when you start nowhere near a Medic and die trying to get to one), where a WM can hit the ground running easy. For me, my experiences show:

As a (level 100+) WM, I can salvage almost any game. Call that balance, if you want. Don't always top the list, but I've consistently (since like level 50) found myself in the top 5, usually around 3rd.

As an AM, when I'm on, I'm on. Denial 2 keeping my preferred weapon helps mitigate the negative impact of death. For a full map, I'm usually in the top half.

As a Medic, death isn't a big deal as long as I have 10 adren when I die and I spawn near a decent weapon (and preferrably within quick reach of another medic). Usually. Score wise, I don't pay too much attention, except that as of late I've been breaking into the 300's. And my final thought: It would be really nice if the score table didn't (only?) show "score", but showed XP gained (and possibly character level).

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

It would be really nice if the score table didn't (only?) show "score", but showed XP gained (and possibly character level).

I sayed that in my edited post. It would be very cool to have XP as score. Dont know if its possible but it would be definatelly cool and reflect the Game better since XP is directly linked to Damage done.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

ck — GMT

after 320's nicely written post and pretty much everything that has been talked about lately, i think it kinda comes down to "who do you make the changes for, hardcore player or the casual one?" this is also related to the flak +5 so i feel like it fits here. basically, i'm kind of stuck between the two sidese when it comes to making decisions/changes on druid's RPG (i mean of course i dont make the last decision, but we talk about it here, dru seems to listen, too) do you remove the flak +5 because that top LA player was kliling everything in sight? wouldn't that palyer do the same with piercing, then protect, then whatever is next? do you remove the flak 5 and take the 100 extra points away from the casual gamer who won't score more than 500 anyways? for the hardcore type, it is a challenge that will be overcome in a day or two with different strats, for the casual one it's less fun knowing you'll be stuck with 500 points and not get 600 anytime soon? anyone is welcome to comment, you might think it's the wrong PoV in the first place. i'll try to get some answers of mine when i come back.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

ck wrote:

after 320's nicely written post and pretty much everything that has been talked about lately, i think it kinda comes down to "who do you make the changes for, hardcore player or the casual one?" this is also related to the flak +5 so i feel like it fits here. basically, i'm kind of stuck between the two sidese when it comes to making decisions/changes on druid's RPG (i mean of course i dont make the last decision, but we talk about it here, dru seems to listen, too) do you remove the flak +5 because that top LA player was kliling everything in sight? wouldn't that palyer do the same with piercing, then protect, then whatever is next? do you remove the flak 5 and take the 100 extra points away from the casual gamer who won't score more than 500 anyways? for the hardcore type, it is a challenge that will be overcome in a day or two with different strats, for the casual one it's less fun knowing you'll be stuck with 500 points and not get 600 anytime soon? anyone is welcome to comment, you might think it's the wrong PoV in the first place. i'll try to get some answers of mine when i come back.

There's a place for everyone, casual and competitive. But as casual is the majority, I think the decision making should lean toward that. The good players will adapt to whatever the next best thing is.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

ck — GMT

(read -my- previous post first, 320 replied between, but it's also about the same topic) ok, here's what i personally think; apart from few cases (mentioned later), making changes because of hardcore players doesn't seem too logical to me. the basic idea is that there will always be something the better player will exploit (not the best way to put it but you know what i mean). when flak 5 is gone, it will be piercing, when when piercing is nerfed protection and posion will dominate - and the scores probably won't be much different than before either. not just weapons; when triple consumes more adren, the hardcore player will adjust, making sure they use triple more efficiently (better on/off for example) and still run it through the whole wave like nothing happened. i think most would agree that the advanced player will adjust to pretty much change. (so what are those few cases? - for example the one druid mentioned beofre: this one player had LW and LA skills before they were sepeate classes, scored like crazy so the two classes were seperated.) i talked about how the hardcore player will adjust, however those changes are (most prbably) still taking palce: triple might be costlier, flak 5s are out and somebody's getting affected by these. the casual gamer (and i don't mean a bad player) will still have his triple running thru wave 14, but, for example, wave 10 will be adren waste for fewer kills now. they will try to get better, yet the idea is that they won't adjust as well/quickly. the flak 5 - which helped a lot to those who can't aim well - will be missed this "casual gamer". however, now the hardcore player will quickly learn to speedswitch between his two fav weps and still get the kill in the same time as a flak 5 - not missed as much. i can make more examples but i think ppl have got it. now, just to be clear, i'm not saying anything bad/negative about hardcore or casual gamers. however, i'm saying that i'm not sure if the changes being made (or possible changes in the future for that matter) necessarily serve their initial purpose. we know flak 5 is going away because people were dominating with it, now the same people will dominate with something else. so the problem isn't actually solved, and the game is even a little harder for the casual gamer. same with triple, good players (and yes, i'm not really referring to lvl here, but more gaming skill) will manage to keep it running even if it consumed +2 adren, they were doing pretty good before anyways. so these changes don't serve their purpose in the end, some might even have opposite effects. so do we make decisions just for the casual gamers? no. do we ignore the hardcore players and "let them be"? no, but we should also be aware that they will -by definition - find a way around most of the changes directed at them, so one might as well just accept that. i'm still curious what ppl think about this. i feel like the removal of flak 5 and increasing TD cost will be living proof of good intentions that fail to solve the problem, if not create some.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

ck — GMT

320 wrote:

There's a place for everyone, casual and competitive. But as casual is the majority, I think the decision making should lean toward that. The good players will adapt to whatever the next best thing is.

don't mean to post the similar things 10 times but 320 posted as i was writing my explanation, so i'll reply; so my final/ultimate questoin is - 320 and everyone else -, looking at things from this perspective, do you think removing flak 5 will solve the problem? (the problem of the over-powered weapon that made things easier and helped ppl dominate) will increasing the TD cost really change things around? well my answer is obvious in the previous post so no more comments.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

[KitFox wrote:

]
But, I'm still winning. LOL yes I still win.
Ahem.. /:) not always :lol:

Okay, okay. :wink: But not always. And it's probably only cause you're canadian. A Frite-eatin' Canadian. I bet you wear a beret and you work as a mime and go "oui oui" all the time and drive a Peugeot and watch Amelie over and over and have ten posters of Gerard Depardieu. Canada needs to get nerfed. :P

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

bet you wear a beret and you work as a mime and go "oui oui" all the time and drive a Peugeot and watch Amelie over and over and have ten posters of Gerard Depardieu.

Ohhh My! You just described a French from France... The insult! :cry: :P

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

[KitFox wrote:

]
bet you wear a beret and you work as a mime and go "oui oui" all the time and drive a Peugeot and watch Amelie over and over and have ten posters of Gerard Depardieu.
Ohhh My! You just described a French from France... The insult! :cry: :P

Canadian, French, they're pretty much the same... :D

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

FodderFigure — GMT

CK, now that medics are on the rise and they are healing people more, players are lasting longer. Therefore the power weapons had to be lowered, or else every map will be won and the game will get stale. I put myself in the power player catagory, and I have adapted both my LW character (level 339) and my medic character (level 56) to this. Survival of the fitest refers to both skill and adaptability. I say big deal if we don't get the high scores anymore, as long as we survive the waves I'll be happy (more so if I survive the waves). I would hope my statement that because we are lasting longer thanks to those fantastic medics the weapons had to be trotteled back a bit will put an end to the questions of why they were thottled back. I hope this addressed your concern, I had a hard time understanding which way you were going. These changes effect everyone, no one should feel like someone else is gettting the long end of the stick. I would like nothing better than a flak +50, we all would. But things change and we have to accept them with grace. I realize you're just concerned and want to voice your opinion, but the horse is dead and we should bury it. Now let's all get used to the new horse and enjoy the game.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

ck wrote:

320 wrote:

There's a place for everyone, casual and competitive. But as casual is the majority, I think the decision making should lean toward that. The good players will adapt to whatever the next best thing is.
don't mean to post the similar things 10 times but 320 posted as i was writing my explanation, so i'll reply; so my final/ultimate questoin is - 320 and everyone else -, looking at things from this perspective, do you think removing flak 5 will solve the problem? (the problem of the over-powered weapon that made things easier and helped ppl dominate) will increasing the TD cost really change things around? well my answer is obvious in the previous post so no more comments.

It's tough to say. But since I have a LW and LA player now, I've reduced my risk exposure through diversification! Hey, it works with mutual funds... :D

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

Skilled LA players: 320 - another bit of anecdotal info - remember when you were asking people to Deemer me when I was about to beat your score?

Okay Bot, I give you props. That deemer thing was obviously just joking, though. You were playing really good that level. And I wasn't playing bad. With LA, I haven't really invested much thought in staying alive on wave 16, so getting smacked down is the norm atm for my LA char on that wave. I had about a 200 point lead, I think, going into 16 and you caught up. Not a bad feeling, eh? I thought to myself, what's happened? Is this... the end? The end of 320?? I looked over at my lifesize cardboard cutout of Ric Flair and said, "Nature Boy! Tell me what to do!" So the very next map: WOOOOOO! Techwarrior also played fantastically to win the map for us.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Spacey — GMT

Boy, 320 definitely mirrored my feelings. I had debated about stating that some folks are probably being spoiled sports and whining, but I decided not to do so at the time. I know that there are better players out there, and some of them hang out on DC. I also know that there are players who can play much more than the couple of hours each night that I can. So, I have no real problems if Ooo, Fro, Ceps or anybody else for that matter gets a higher score or more XP than me. It all goes down to skill, luck (sometimes you just cannot find the bugs, get the weapon, etc.), playing time (more hours -> more XP -> more levels), levels, etc. to determine the score and XP gained. And I am really playing for the fun. Part of the fun is trying to do the best I can, and improve myself (and hence my scores/xp). But when someone whines/b******/complains about how LA players have such an advantage and how X, Y or Z should be done to nerf them, I think you know by now how much it frobs me off (no twiddle or tweek here). Likewise, I must admit that when Dru talks about LA players being like D&D magic users or what ever, and how using high damage weaps with artifacts to stand toe-to-toe with the bugs just like the LW players is not what he thinks LA players should be doing, I get pretty much the same way, and perhaps more so since there is no other way that the LA player such as myself can get that 10K XP to level up to get the skills we have been looking at getting since starting to play LA. Now I mentioned whining and folks being spoiled sports, and no doubt some of you are thinking the same of me. But before you do, think about this. If you have been playing a game for months on end, and then the rules are changed, is it being a spoiled sport to speak out, and if need be to do so quite loudly? And if you do still think so, who is more of a spoiled sport, the person who complains about "ohh gee, I am loosing, let's change the rules to make it so that I can win" or the person who complains about the rules being changed?? As for BotFodder getting 2500+ XP for his level 100 LW...I wish I were getting that much. My really good maps may be aproaching that, but my norm is probably near 1500 right now. Have to check to see what it has been, since I have screen shots for almost every game over the past few months, both the F1 and F3 screens, along with a screen showing XP. But I will also note that between levels 98 and my current 107, I am seeing a transition point. My scores are nearly double what they were back around level 95 or so, and approaching what they were as a LW player back around level 60 or so. As for my thoughts on will this nerfing change or fix things...Nope. Regardless of whether the triple and flak/rl are nerfed or entirely removed, it will at best just make it so that some other trick/gimmick is the "over-powered" choice, then people will whine about it, it will get nerfed and we repeat the process. But I expect this will get about as much attention as my warnings about this very thing and a few others back on day 1 of RPG on the DC server. And if the problem is that we are always winning the maps, well, we could add more waves and kick the level up until we do not do so. BTW...why am I not a contributor, given that I started playing on this server on day 1, after BDB's server went belly up? Well, first is the fact that we are still trying to recover economically, even after 18 months of emplyment, after having been laid off for a year. Then there is the fact that there are times that we end up with perhaps too many folks on the server. And lastly, these repeated nerfings, among other things, have been taking away from my fun. But hey, it is Dru and Shan's server, and they do what they want, and if I don't like it, I will go play elsewhere.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Continuum — GMT

I'm not wanting to get in the middle of an argument but if anyone is scoring 1000 + I don't see how they could complain about getting a low score. I know 10k is a lot to level up (it takes me about a month at 8800 or so) but I average 300 - 400 per game depending who is on ;) Anyways with a score of 1000 on a map your probably getting more like 1200 - 1500 XP at least once bonuses and damage points are factored in. I don't know maybe I'll be scoring that high someday but at level 61 scores like that are a ways off for me. :)

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

Anyways with a score of 1000 on a map your probably getting more like 1200 - 1500 XP

Quickfoot 5 makes an incredible difference with this double XP thing. Right now a Score of 1000+ is around 3000 xp, because of Multikills

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

deidog — GMT

I really still don't understand what the big arguement is. Some simple fact of life; More time playing = (usually) higher skill = more xp = levels = power therefor logically speaking yes the people that play a lot are gonna have higher scores and crap. Does this mean things are unbalanced? No . It means they are reaping the rewards of their time. Good for them. The only time this should become an issue is PvP (lets face it rpg just doesnt work in a PvP FPS envirement) and I don't think I have ever seen PvP played on this server with the rpg mod running. I think people need to stop worrying about everyone else and play their game quite frankly. Edit - p.s. Not to be rude to anyone and not aimed directly at anyone but it should be noted that when playing online games one has to expect constant change of gameplay and be willing to alter their game for it. I've never seen an online game that wasn'y constantly bering changed around.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

FodderFigure — GMT

I'm under the impression that the competition between 320 and BotFodder was purely friendly. Although if it isn't it makes playing with them all the more exciting :twisted:. I get pretty excited when my low level medic gets a good score and sometimes I'll announce it. As for when Botfodder wrote

I'm probably clearing 2500 XP during this double XP extravaganza

you can see he said that was during the double XP period, no need to get jealous. You're a wise man deidog. Although your formula:

More time playing = (usually) higher skill = more xp = levels = power

neglects to take into concideration diminishing returns. I noticed my scores leveling off when I reached my 180 level. After that my scores didn't increase all that much.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

320 — GMT

FodderFigure wrote:

I'm under the impression that the competition between 320 and BotFodder was purely friendly. Although if it isn't it makes playing with them all the more exciting :twisted:.

That's absolutely the case. Some people think if you play hard you can't be nice or friendly or contribute to the team. They equate competition with hostility. That's just not true.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

(DC)DEMONSLAYER — GMT

I'm neutral on most of the issues mentioned above. When I get a "super" weapon, I'm thrilled, and if I happen to obtain an "inf" weapon, I'm in happyland. One thing to note, tho. All of you hi-scorers, including 320/blade_Tx/Dru/Dirty Deeds/whoevers in the lead at the time, are being spied upon when I've died. I usually watch your moves and types of weapons used in certain areas and senarios, so that I can learn more.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

BotFodder — GMT

FodderFigure wrote:

I'm under the impression that the competition between 320 and BotFodder was purely friendly.

Heh yeah. You wanna see it get mean, be on when Relius is on ...we'll snipe each other. I distinctly remember hearing one day ...

Relius wrote:

I really wish my vorpal worked on you.

Honestly though that's all good fun, too ...

FodderFigure wrote:

As for when Botfodder wrote
I'm probably clearing 2500 XP during this double XP extravaganza
you can see he said that was during the double XP period, no need to get jealous.

I just want to clarify something here that might have gotten lost in the length of my other post ... during the double XP extravaganza, I had a day (not map - we're talking 6 maps in a row or so) where my 30-34th level AM was getting the same amount of XP as my 104th level WM. If this comparison held up over time and during normal XP days, it might be worth looking into, and those who say AM's have it good might be on to something. Again, I leave you with the disclaimer that I can't provide definitive proof (I long since stopped writing down my start and ending XP for a map), and may have just been having a really good day as my AM. I've definitely had really bad days, and my AM has never had to go through a normal XP map. So it's all anecdotal. As for the damage flak removal (to get closer to topic) I think people will still favor flaks, but they'll be more variety and everyone will have a favorite.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

BotFodder — GMT

crud delete me

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

FodderFigure — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

crud delete me

I will always remember you botfodder... memory deleted.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

deidog — GMT

FodderFigure wrote:

You're a wise man deidog. Although your formula:
More time playing = (usually) higher skill = more xp = levels = power
neglects to take into concideration diminishing returns. I noticed my scores leveling off when I reached my 180 level. After that my scores didn't increase all that much.

is that about when you run out of skills to purchase though? or at least skills that aren't more for fun than anything?

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Hobo_Joe — GMT

320 wrote:

..Some people think if you play hard you can't be nice or friendly or contribute to the team. They equate competition with hostility. That's just not true.

I agree...I play as hard as possible for me (and this is my opinion of myself..others may think differently) I'm friendly and contribute what I can to my team. There's been a couple times I knew nobody was in my deemer's range(I ran away from everybody) and there was a huge mob..I knew I wouldn't make it out alive so I deemer myself in the middle of them all..may not seem like a contribution to some but it hurts all those monsters so other players can kill them easier and move on to the next monster/mob. And I always hand out good weapons, whether they are cloneable, ones I won't use, or ones that someone else will get better use out of. If there's anything else I could think of..I'd do it if it helps my team :D

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

[KitFox] — GMT

neglects to take into concideration diminishing returns. I noticed my scores leveling off when I reached my 180 level. After that my scores didn't increase all that much.

Thats true. I'm now at level 130, and i dont know what i could buy to make a difference in score. IT makes a difference, but not as much as Mendatory skills like Ghost or Resupply.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

FodderFigure — GMT

deidog wrote:

FodderFigure wrote:

You're a wise man deidog. Although your formula:
More time playing = (usually) higher skill = more xp = levels = power
neglects to take into concideration diminishing returns. I noticed my scores leveling off when I reached my 180 level. After that my scores didn't increase all that much.
is that about when you run out of skills to purchase though? or at least skills that aren't more for fun than anything?

Yep

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

BotFodder — GMT

BTW, to get back on topic, in "DruidsRPG 190?":

TheDruidXpawX wrote:

Flak and RL balance adjust: The plain Damage modifier is going to depart these beautiful high damage weapons. Please enjoy them while they last, as they're available for a limited time only. If this sufficiently crimps your style as an artifact master, I will offer to change you over to a weapons master for a period of a month after this code rolls out.

So it would seem all "plain plus" Flaks and Rocket Launchers will go away. That would include all +1 through +5 weapons. I wonder if Dru is going to allow uber AMs to use the +1 modifier artifact on these weapons to at least get a +1 Flak or RL?

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Shadow-Yoda — GMT

BotFodder wrote:

So it would seem all "plain plus" Flaks and Rocket Launchers will go away. That would include all +1 through +5 weapons. I wonder if Dru is going to allow uber AMs to use the +1 modifier artifact on these weapons to at least get a +1 Flak or RL?

It is just my understanding of the way the +1 works, but I think to give something a +1 it needs to be a "magic" weapon. I don't think you can give a vanilla weapon a +1 because it is a vanilla weapon, no magic. Again, this is just my understanding. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Szlat — GMT

Shadow-Yoda wrote:

It is just my understanding of the way the +1 works, but I think to give something a +1 it needs to be a "magic" weapon. I don't think you can give a vanilla weapon a +1 because it is a vanilla weapon, no magic. Again, this is just my understanding. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Correct. What some people call the "vanilla +5 flak" is actually of a "Damage" magic type, which tells it to do +10% damage per +. So it can be maxed and 'PlusOned'. This is distinct from a plain flak, of no magic type. Doing a max or PlusOne will have no effect, because that weapon type does not have a modifier to max or plus. If Druid does not let a flak be of magic type "Damage", then the flak will not be of that type. An alternative would be to limit flaks and rls to +3, whilst letting other weapons go to +5, but that is a lot trickier to implement. An easier alternative would be to let all weapons go to +5, but have flaks and rls only doing +5% damage per plus, whilst other weapons do +10%. So, lots of options - it depends on what Druid wants to do. :) In the meantime, start practising your combos as 320 suggests, so you can fire three rockets and switch to a lightning+5. :D

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Fro13 — GMT

I think all the vanilla +'s should be dropped downt to 4% or 5% per plus so that all the weapons are on more of an even playing field(except rage and vorpal). It would make weapons like null, and vamp a little more popular again. Then we wouldn't have the imbalance of having no vanilla flaks and rockets but having the vanilla of all the other weapons.

Re:FLAK +5!?!?!?!

Szlat — GMT

Fro13 wrote:

I think all the vanilla +'s should be dropped down to 4% or 5% per plus so that all the weapons are on more of an even playing field(except rage and vorpal).

I agree, although once Druid fixes the 'no xp or damage adrenaline for vorpal kills' bug it may be worth knocking the vorpal down. Otherwise, people will fire rockets and switch to the vorpal weapon.