Latest posts for the topic "Monsters XP"

Monsters XP

Szlat — GMT

In a different post, 320 stated

320 wrote:

The other day I was playing with a high level player with my LA char (low level). It came down to just the two of us on wave 16, so I ran like heck and just tried to stay alive so that the high level player could get the job done.

Now all credit to 320 here - he is doing everything he can to help the team complete the wave. However, take a step back and re-appraise exactly what is happening here. We are saying the low levels should hide to keep the monsters low level, so the high level players can have lots of fun and stack up shedloads of points killing low level monsters. Something just doesn't feel right here. I know if the wave is completed the low levels will get 80 points, but then so will the high levels. Now in other posts, people including myself have suggested ways of making the 'high level player alone on wave 16' situation easier - more damage bonus, or all weapons piercing, etc. However, on reflection, I like the fact that wave 16 is difficult. Now I am not a high level player, and I can only once remember being the last person alive on wave 16, but I would have thought the high level players would like the challenge of tackling difficult monsters. So, an alternative suggestion. Leave all the db/dr stuff as it is, and have the monsters being very hard to kill, but increase the xp associated with them. So, instead of a warlord always being 10 points, make it worth 10+(monster level/5) points. So a level 80 warlord, with damage reduction 280 would be worth 26 points, whilst a warlord level 10 with 35 dr would only be worth 12 points. Give the high levels more reward for the more difficult job they are doing. (It may not be possible to implement exactly this due to the experience code being buried in the core RPG, but the extra points could be given to the killer of the monster in the ability ScoreKill function) Just a thought.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

I like it. I think know why they mayn't like the difficult monsters though, because, you put so much time and effort into maknig this great character, only to be matched my monsters of the same strength. Except, technically they aren't the same strength, because though they might be somewhere around your level, they only put points into DB and DR, and equally so (imagine if they specialized *shudder*). Yeah, that's my two cents.

Re:Monsters XP

320 — GMT

I think a piercing artifact would be cool. You activate it and it eats maybe 5 - 7 adren per second and makes your weapon piercing but retains the original magic of the weapon (or not, that might be overpowered). Maybe it just makes it piercing. Or like I said in the other thread, a "piercing weapon maker" for LA. More exp would be nice, but in a lot of situations you're just running to stay alive, period. It's not like I'm thinking, "Gee, if only they were worth more exp I'd risk it." Having all those monsters to myself is a tremendous exp opportunity already.

Re:Monsters XP

Mach10 — GMT

Yeah, from what I see wave 16 is always a challenge, but the challenge varies depending on the map. I've never seen FTP-Tutorial Classic completed, and routinely ONS maps are done with after wave 14. Also, I remember blade was the last one left on a map, and there were two titans left that had spawned at his level. It literally took him 10 minutes to kill this titan as he didn't have a piercing weapon. In this case blade was clearly good enough to compete with a high level monster, but it's as though he was fighting monsters on god mode.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

Perhaps monsters will be given extra XP (by that, I mean give extra XP to players) dependent upon their level. Experience per level can be modified to reflect changes in balance. This was noted before, yes? I realize it won't change your mindset, but if you actually stop and think about it, a wave one titan (abstract thought here) is worth (way) less than a wave 16 titan.

Re:Monsters XP

320 — GMT

KohanX wrote:

Perhaps monsters will be given extra XP (by that, I mean give extra XP to players) dependent upon their level. Experience per level can be modified to reflect changes in balance. This was noted before, yes? I realize it won't change your mindset, but if you actually stop and think about it, a wave one titan (abstract thought here) is worth (way) less than a wave 16 titan.

From levels 20 - 70 are quite a grind. They take a long time. But then, your experience and character skills start to kick in. Even though it costs 10k per level, leveling takes less and less time as you get more powerful. Right now, if I really want to grind levels with my LW char, I can gain a level about every 4 - 5 maps (i.e. 2000 - 2500 per map). I would say the majority of 100+ level LW players are getting at least 1200 per map. I don't know what LA is getting. (Kitfox?) Anyway, I'm not too concerned about the "end-game". Myself and the other high level players find ways to challenge ourselves, like the weapon records, kill records, bingo, etc. Wave 16 can be a little one-dimensional, but not always. Sometimes you can find a great hiding spot. Sometimes it's a challenge to just keep transing until the monsters expire.

Re:Monsters XP

cplmac — GMT

I think what 320 was doing was the team thing to do. I can tell you from experience that a map full of level 200 titans, queens, warlords and nalis are virtually unbeatable without a triple. I have sat and emptied a mini+3 point blank into a warlord (I have resupply 4 and 540 ammo with the mini) and seen its health bar (I have awareness 2) not move one milimeter. When there are many of them left which is not uncommon they are pretty much invinceable. Add to that the fact that they are dealing 100+ points of damage per shot, and often times more with cranked up intelligence and backup from other monsters, and the ability to teleport to wherever you are, there would never be a victory without the selfless stay alive mentality of lower level players. My character has all stats maxed and doesn't even make a tiny dent in the health of wave 16 baddies.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

320: bingo? cplmac: The warlord thing doesn't make sense. Warlords have 500 Health (memory a little sketchy, not exactly sure), and their health is not influenced by their level, only DB and DR. Therefore, 500 hits with a minigun should kill it, regardless. Dunno what happened there.

cplmac wrote:

selfless stay alive

You sure you have your definitions right?

Re:Monsters XP

cplmac — GMT

Umm yeah. Instead of having more fun maybe trying to kill the monsters and getting killed he is being selfless and taking the less fun approach of running and hiding. And as for the warlords, it is not a glitch or a one time thing. It is every time, they have access to the same skills and abilities we do for the most part, including regen, health bonus, weapon speed, DB, DR, etc. etc. . I have watched monsters health go up, before you comment on this stuff, I suggest you witness it or get some basis for your opinion. Dispersions on mine will net you bad karma.

Re:Monsters XP

Fraggerman — GMT

Re:Monsters XP

320 — GMT

KohanX wrote:

320: bingo? cplmac: The warlord thing doesn't make sense. Warlords have 500 Health (memory a little sketchy, not exactly sure), and their health is not influenced by their level, only DB and DR. Therefore, 500 hits with a minigun should kill it, regardless. Dunno what happened there.
cplmac wrote:

selfless stay alive
You sure you have your definitions right?

lol... you got a graphic but it's not as cool as Vortex'.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

Nonono, you're thinking selfish, or if not that, simply unfun. Selfless is a total 'I don't give a crap about myself, just as long as everyone else is okay' mindset. Hmm... I'll get you some code later, I gotta get to school.

Re:Monsters XP

Chyster — GMT

KohanX wrote:

Warlords have 500 Health (memory a little sketchy, not exactly sure), and their health is not influenced by their level, only DB and DR. Therefore, 500 hits with a minigun should kill it, regardless. Dunno what happened there.

The fact remains that when a high level player is the last person alive, all critters left breathing automatically jump up to that level. And they are all dang near impossible to kill (even with a trip). Cpl is absolutely right. As well he should be, he's more often than not one of the last players alive. Protecting the lower level players or them running from monsters on the later waves is very important. I agree that it is selfless on their part with regard to team goals if they choose to run. As for health being influenced by level, I believe it is. If you have ever played any type of role playing game where it wasn't, you had a crappy game. Chys

Re:Monsters XP

[KitFox] — GMT

I would say the majority of 100+ level LW players are getting at least 1200 per map. I don't know what LA is getting. (Kitfox?)

I dont know if i should answer that question :P On average those days its 1600/1700 XP per maps. I dont think im a good reference, because i ALWAYS kill Nalis with HeadShot. Wich give me an easy 300 xp advantage right there. (By the Way: Nothing breaks my heart more than seeing someone killing a Nali with Flak or Rocket Launcher lol) If less than 10 people are on the map, i can jump to 2500 easy. The trick is to get the Most combos you can. (Multi Kills) My record is close to 3500 xp. When there was a perfect positionning of Titans, i ended up with more than 15 Holy Crap in a row. On a side Note: on ONS Maps i cannot do better than 800-900 xp. Multi Kill are almost impossible, and it takes around 1 hour to finish :cry: Lets not talk about Assault :lol:

Re:Monsters XP

320 — GMT

[KitFox wrote:

]
I would say the majority of 100+ level LW players are getting at least 1200 per map. I don't know what LA is getting. (Kitfox?)
I dont know if i should answer that question :P On average those days its 1600/1700 XP per maps. I dont think im a good reference, because i ALWAYS kill Nalis with HeadShot. Wich give me an easy 300 xp advantage right there. (By the Way: Nothing breaks my heart more than seeing someone killing a Nali with Flak or Rocket Launcher lol) If less than 10 people are on the map, i can jump to 2500 easy. The trick is to get the Most combos you can. (Multi Kills) My record is close to 3500 xp. When there was a perfect positionning of Titans, i ended up with more than 15 Holy Crap in a row. On a side Note: on ONS Maps i cannot do better than 800-900 xp. Multi Kill are almost impossible, and it takes around 1 hour to finish :cry: Lets not talk about Assault :lol:

That sounds about right. That's what people can expect if they work hard to get better. As for this whole selfless/selfish stuff, I see this thread bordering on an issue of etiquette. I don't like people assuming people should play one way or another. I play the way I want to play within the rules and you should, too. Sometimes I help the team, sometimes I help myself. It's what I choose to do at the time.

Re:Monsters XP

Szlat — GMT

KitFox wrote:

(By the Way: Nothing breaks my heart more than seeing someone killing a Nali with Flak or Rocket Launcher lol)

I seem to remember reading somewhere that there is a problem with nalis giving xp for damage. For most monsters, whenever you damage them, you get xp for the damage. Then the player that gets the final kill gets 1 xp. I think this damage transfer was handled by a fake monster weapon. Because nalis carry weapons, this damage transfer didn't work, so you would only get one point for a nali, ever, regardless of what score they were configured with. If this is true, then the choice is

use a flak/rl to take out the nali, and get 1 point

headshot with a sniper/lightning, and get the 1 point plus 10 from the invasion spree mutator. Plus with 8 headshots, you get an extra 100 xp/adrenaline for head hunter. So listen to [KitFox]. :D

Re:Monsters XP

Chyster — GMT

320 wrote:

As for this whole selfless/selfish stuff, I see this thread bordering on an issue of etiquette. I don't like people assuming people should play one way or another.

Hmmm... I read this thing through a couple of times and don't see what you are seeing. The only thing close are statements that regard a low level player staying alive TO aid in high wave completions. More a discussion on a specific tactic than anything else.

320 wrote:

I play the way I want to play within the rules and you should, too. Sometimes I help the team, sometimes I help myself. It's what I choose to do at the time.

It is your choice. No one said anything anywhere that states otherwise.

Re:Monsters XP

320 — GMT

Chyster wrote:

320 wrote:

As for this whole selfless/selfish stuff, I see this thread bordering on an issue of etiquette. I don't like people assuming people should play one way or another.
Hmmm... I read this thing through a couple of times and don't see what you are seeing. The only thing close are statements that regard a low level player staying alive TO aid in high wave completions. More a discussion on a specific tactic than anything else.
320 wrote:

I play the way I want to play within the rules and you should, too. Sometimes I help the team, sometimes I help myself. It's what I choose to do at the time.
It is your choice. No one said anything anywhere that states otherwise.

Maybe it's more a feeling than anything else, Chyster. But I got the same feeling when requests to players to turn off auto-taunts went from polite, friendly requests to "auto-taunts are not allowed on this server"-style demands. Even admins were putting up in-game messages. All the while, to the best of my knowledge, auto-taunts are not against the rules. I think Druid even stated it explicitly. Like I said, maybe just a feeling...

Re:Monsters XP

Chyster — GMT

Oh, ok, feelings are accepted here. And yes, there are no rules about using auto-taunts. It's an annoyance more than anything. But, anybody can keep them on that would like to if they can handle the in game brow beating. :wink:

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

Well, yes, I understand that the low-levels are staying alive so the high-level players have it easier, and though this is great for teamwork, it does sort of defeat the purpose of the level adjustment. I didn't see it that way at the moment, but I see what you're saying about selfless and all. My other computer has the source code for DruidsRPG, so I'll edit this post in a bit.

Re:Monsters XP

Cazius — GMT

I still think the best solution to this problem would be to cap the monster level to 100. Then the lowbies could last a few seconds longer than before. And the high level people will still achieve a win, giving the lowbies their 80 points. It's a win-win situation for everyone. Except for whatever the annoying factor is that I didn't think of that would mess up the whole thing making this the worst possible situation for everyone. I always hate that factor.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

The Malcolm Effect. Yes, the only problem with making things a win-win situation is that it is win-win-lose, lowbies-highbies-monsters. As the players become stronger and stronger, the monsters will eventually become powerless. I mean, level 100 is still pretty hefty, but do you understand what I mean? Another application of the Malcolm Effect.

Re:Monsters XP

320 — GMT

Cazius wrote:

I still think the best solution to this problem would be to cap the monster level to 100. Then the lowbies could last a few seconds longer than before. And the high level people will still achieve a win, giving the lowbies their 80 points. It's a win-win situation for everyone. Except for whatever the annoying factor is that I didn't think of that would mess up the whole thing making this the worst possible situation for everyone. I always hate that factor.

I don't disagree with a level cap. I think two or three more difficult waves with level caps would help the server overall. That's a programming thing, though. What makes simple sense in a gameplay context might not be so simple to make reality in the context of programming. I leave that to Druid and the others. And remember, all of this is mostly a volunteer effort for these people. But at the same time, people should keep contributing their ideas. There have been a lot of good and bad ideas lately, but the good (and possible) ideas will rise, and may become reality. Many have already. Speaking to your second paragraph, I don't mean to inhibit low or mid-tier players from speaking their mind. I know I can come off that way. I only mean to present a different perspective, based on my experience. I know always saying "That won't work..." can seem condescending or discouraging. That's not how I mean it. Always speak what's on your mind. It might be wrong? Who cares? I admire Chyster's ability to be level-headed. I try, but that's not always me. So take this as you will. With regards to this level 16 stuff, well, it's all in the strat thread. I, and others, have explained all the basics (and then some).. Get your level up, practice, watch others... you'll see how to win wave 16. It's not so "no-option" as it seems. You'll do that, and then you'll ask yourself, "so what's next?" That's when you'll either decide you've had enough or you want more. When you decide you want more, well, that's where I come in. :lol: I started the strat thread with the idea of helping people get better, making people realize that it's not just a flak 5 and a triple, that things aren't so cut and dry as that. That's my "team" contribution. We put the water out there, who's gonna take a drink? :?: In the game, I'll keep bustin it up. Make no mistake, I want you to challenge me, I welcome it! And anybody that's playing when I'm on deck, full tilt knows they gotta work for it. No one wins for free, not loaded artifacts or loaded weapons, nor high level. Man, I've been teaching that over and over since about level 60. I want you to teach me something. I want you to show me where I'm wrong. The only thing you can do by beating me is to tell me I need to get better and try harder. You do that through your play, not your talk. And when I get rocked, it's all good, you can read all about it in the strat thread. I'll say, "here's how I got spanked, step by step." And then everyone will know. You'll get better, or you won't. Your choice. Wave 16 is merely the beginning, guys. "Wave 17"? That's all for you to make of it what you will. It all depends on your skill. Go for broke.

Re:Monsters XP

v0rTeX — GMT

It would be great if someone could figure out how to code RPG so that the monsters are based on each persons level to that person all the time. So if a monster starts fighting a low level, they are weak, but the second they turn and fire at a high level they start to hit hard. I bet that would be fun to code up. :wink:

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

That actually wouldn't be difficult to do, considering DB and DR for monsters is calculated on hit, so it's not a permanent stat. Just modify the level based on the player's. It would actually be quite easy, me thinks. In fact, it would work really well, because the damage wouldn't be calculated upon firing a projectile weapon, so like, a rocket aimed at a high-level player wouldn't do omondo damage to a lowbie who just happened to walk by. Anyhow, the code for it is in CalculateNetDamage() in RPGRules.uc (UT2004RPG), somewhere in there. Scan through and I'm sure you'll find some conspicuous "MonsterLevel"s and stuff.

Re:Monsters XP

FodderFigure — GMT

What's the use of leveling if you cant reap the benifits? I see you're attempting to make everyone equal in the guise of "wouldn't it be fun", but why not just give everyone the same weapon then?

Re:Monsters XP

Chyster — GMT

:o :o :o Your right FodderFigure. That makes the playing field far too equalized. If you think of it from a reality point of view---- Two bull fighters in a ring with one bull. The bull is not going to take it easy on the one with the least experience. The bull has the same power potential and will be bent on grinding them both to dust. In game, it harder as when that least experienced fighter does get caught, the monster then gets an increase in power to match the next level of fighter. I think I like it this way. You don't get experience from a box in the mail, or from a faucet, folks need to work their way up. That's why its called experience.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

Yes, and see, what with the bull example, that's what there was before any RPG. You had varying skill levels of players, and monsters that always had the same strength, and if you could make it through, you were revered as an insanely good Invasionist. Now that abilities and stats and all that jazz is around, it's more difficult to incorporate that sense. I think it would work well to remove the 'lowest player modifier' entirely, and stick with the solid DB/DR bonus of Wave*PointsPerLevel. That's 112 DB and DR on wave 16, so a maxed player would do (80-112) = 84% damage and take (112-50)*0.005 = 131% damage. That's a maxed player. A no-DB/DR player would deal 44%, and be returned 156%. I dunno, I like it, but that's me. If you think they're too weak, increase the point multiplier. Just keep it linear.

Re:Monsters XP

Grizzled_Imposter — GMT

That last post seems a little extreme to me. I don't mind dying when I screw up, put myself in a bad place, or even when I'm blindsided because I havent payed enough attention. It is entirely something else to guarantee that I won't be able to kill anything on level 10 or above. I like that the game is hard. I want to be challanged. I look forward to gaining power and levels.

Re:Monsters XP

KohanX — GMT

Ahh hmm... I need to check if the level modification is added and multiplied or just multiplied (eg. *0.25 or *1.25).