So you want to be a Loaded Artifact Player?

USA wrote:

DEMONSLAYER]320, thanks for the info but you are way over my head...........Please remember that I'm not the fastest button pusher around--I basically use the mouse and 6 keys on the keyboard. As a side note, where can I find the class descriptions?

One place to go is the faq.

http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dc/rpgskills.jsp

And Botfodder wrote a beginner faq, but I don't have the address off-hand.

www.tinyurl.com/lz229 is the address to Bot's FAQ. It kinda gets plastered in the brain after you hear it about 40 times.

Found it and used it, thanks for all the help.

Shadow-Yoda wrote:

www.tinyurl.com/lz229 is the address to Bot's FAQ. It kinda gets plastered in the brain after you hear it about 40 times.

I try not to do it too much - but we do get a regular stream of newbies, or folks that start with a couple of the FAQs ... it's just easier to say "Look, you're going to ask the rest of them, so go here and read the answers ... "

BTW you don't need the "www" ... just "http://tinyurl.com/lz229" will work.

There was a question that popped up the other day on my "Banter about the FAQ" post. It was a very valid question, but I wasn't sure it would fit into the "newbie" realm ... and even if it did, the info would be best posted here (as you could actually consider this an extension to the newbie FAQ).

The question involved artifacts. So, before getting these questions answered, see the following for the basic FAQ info about Artifacts:

Artifacts
RPG Skill Description - specifically, the item covering "Loaded Artifacts".

The question was: What artifacts go into permanent affect, and which ones only work while the artifact is active?

The answers:

Boots of Flight: You'll only fly while it is active, though I guess you could be "flying uncontrollably downward until you reached the ground" depending on how high you were when you deactivated them.

Electro-Magent: Lets you climb walls and walk on the ceiling until you deactivate it or do something silly like walk into some fire pit somewhere on a wall and die (I talk from personal experience).

Globe of Invulnerability: Works only while active. Does not work while you "wish" it was active.

Lightning Rod: Works (somewhat) only while active.

Magic Weapon Maker: Rumor has it you can cancel its attempt to magic a weapon (with some loss of Adren), but is mainly a "you activate it and get a permanently magical weapon" artifact, and will likely break on you after giving you some particularly useless "positively magical" item.

Summon Charm: Based on your adren, it's a one shot "you get a pet for 2 minutes or until the pet dies" item. Disappears after activation.

Teleporter: Only used it like once, pretty sure it's a fairly random object - but is also a "click" and pray object. Not even sure if it breaks.

Triple Damage: Never breaks but only works while it is active.

Double Magic Modifier: If you do the math, for raw damage, see the Triple instead. However, for certain weapons this can be incredibly useful (search for the debates elsewhere). Works only while active.

Max Magic Modifier: use changes weapon permanently, but be sure you know what the potential max of a weapon is (see RPG Weapons) so you don't accidentally try to max something that's already maxed.

Magic Modifier +1: A permanent change - but with some caveats: first, it *will* work on a weapon that's not already maxed - so be careful with its use. Second, you shouldn't be able to drop the weapon after using this artifact, so you can't share, even if the weapon wasn't maxed when you plused it (although you might get lucky and be able to throw it - but that's likely a bug somewhere in the code).

I think that covers all of them ...

I can see one other place where DMM might be worth while, havent been able to try it yet as my AM is only lvl 35.

use DMM on Flack of Energy, while running Globe and Tripple.

I know that I can run the TD and Globe (off and on) with a flack of energy, it seems to me that if you can get that DMM in there it would pay for it easier.

Thanks for the thread 320, just having the debate going has helped me make my character a way that is satisfying for me to play.

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:

I can see one other place where DMM might be worth while, havent been able to try it yet as my AM is only lvl 35.

use DMM on Flack of Energy, while running Globe and Tripple.

I know that I can run the TD and Globe (off and on) with a flack of energy, it seems to me that if you can get that DMM in there it would pay for it easier.

Thanks for the thread 320, just having the debate going has helped me make my character a way that is satisfying for me to play.

It's actually Fodder's thread.

I do alright in a pinch. LA is fun, not, IMO as fun as LW overall. But different strokes for different folks.

It's still a great contrast to LW. A different play style. With LW you got health and weapon choice as a given. With LA you got power and weapon building skills as a given.

Playing LA has made me a better LW player and vice versa. You see possibilities you didn't think about. Like nowadays I might run the triple with LW even on a low adren wave to win a kill when others are around. I can't do it to the same extent as LA, because I'll end up with nothing left when it counts if I do, but in some scenarios it makes scense to do so. Like those little shield guys. Lightning will go through the shield, and triple will usually get the job done in one or two shots. Shield gun does as well, but that won't fit the bill if you're across the map.

On the other hand, no LA player does combos, for example. But's it's possible. I was thinking about it for awhile but then I got busy at work and forgot about it. Now I'm just too lazy, I think. It takes practice.

If someone did, and did it well, man, LA would kill everything. All it takes is a rocket launcher, lightning gun and a Flak (to fill the gaps). Max all three on tighter map with a few medics running around and you can kill anything, on any level, in under a second. On the open maps, make a good shock or a mini, along with a LG, case closed.

I like the extra weapons for LW 5, which really add to the depth of the game. I also kind of like that LW is a roll of the dice. Some days you get just the right weapons, just the right map, and just the right player mix. And your second or third kill barfs up that wonderful Triple Damage. You know the next 16 waves are gonna be good.

While I do not have very high level characters I do have one of each class. I play each one depending on the map, mix of classes that are already playing and the play style that fits my mood.

My loaded weapons character is great, he is survivable and as long as there are monsters and I can acutaly hit the keys right he does pretty well. Lvl 56 high score 1617

My medic is fun and helpful to others, I paticularly like it when teamwork lets us pull through a map that we otherwise wouldent have. Lvl 53 high score 1055

My LA I play when Im feeling agressive and want stuff to die NOW, it works despite the fact that he is level 30 something. I do not even enchant weapons
anymore, every bit of adrenaline I pump into the tripple up to wave 10, I even ran out of weapons last nite, and killed 2 titans with an unenchanted assault rifle (using TD) Lvl 37 high score 917

As for the thread: Thank you all who have shared the techniques and skills that work for you.

Bot you have too much time on your hands man, an analytical mind and obviously the follow thorough to see it to the end.

Thank you

now let us never speak of this again......

Well, I'm still learning and building skills. The advice from 320, botfodder, and other players have helped so much, especially on the different classes and the type of playing styles I've seen. Thanks for all the help.

Grizzled_Imposter wrote:

My LA I play when Im feeling agressive and want stuff to die NOW, it works despite the fact that he is level 30 something. I do not even enchant weapons

This is a good point that I overlooked before. As a low-level artifact player (I'd say up to level 50), I found it much more profitable to use my adren with the triple than to try and make weapons. I used lightning gun and flak almost exclusively and the only time I used the MWM was when I got a negative or something really annoying (like force). If I got a plain, I'd just live with it and use the triple.

So, with the recent purchase of resupply, max weapon speed, and speedswitcher 1, my LA is doing better than ever. Especially after the first, and then even more after the second. I think I have a lot of weird ideas that help me in my head with playing LA, so I'll post 'em here. I'll start with waves.

Waves can be divided into ones which require "active" artifacts, or will allow "inactive" ones. More on that later, but here's a list of which I consider:

Inactive waves

Waves 1-5
Wave 7
Waves 9-10

Active waves

Wave 6
Wave 8
Waves 11-16

Inactive waves are ones which don't really require much attention to survive through. A little dodging, a few pickups, maybe a medic here and there, and you get through no problem. The active waves are ones in which you need to be alert, because they're either big points, or hard to live through. (Keep in mind this comes from a level 50 LA - I have no health bonus or DR.)

So, the next thing to do is to divide the artifacts into the categories.

Inactive artifacts

Magic weapon maker
Max magic modifier
Max +1 thingee

Active artifacts

Triple
Globe
Lightning rod
Double magic modifier

Simple as that - inactive artifacts are used on inactive waves, and active ones are used on active waves. If you didn't notice, all the inactive artifacts revolve around making weapons, and all the active ones revolve around doing more damage, or staying alive.

Basically, the strategy is this - build your weapons on the inactive waves, then use active artifacts on the active waves. Here's what I use on the active waves, myself:

Wave 6 - Triple
Wave 8 - Triple
Wave 11 - Triple
Wave 12 - Globe
Wave 13 - Triple
Wave 14 - Triple
Wave 15 - Lightning rod, or more recently triple
Wave 16 - Globe

Now, as for why?
Wave 6 has titans. Always triple titans!
Wave 8? The queens will probably attack someone else, and anyways, there aren't that many of them. Therefore if they attack you, you can probably dodge well enough, and therefore want to kill them as fast as possible. Use the triple.
Wave 11? If I have crappy weapons I will use this wave to make better ones, but the few titans, queens, and giant gasbags are very sweet to triple, and also help me gain adrenaline for the globefest of wave 12.
On wave 12, the globe is my savior. It's the only thing keeping me alive. I can usually get away with using the triple if I can dodge everything, but most times I can't. I usually use the globe, then run up to the warlords with flak or link and kill them. Having surge 2, I can usually lose minimal adrenaline by doing this. The key is to only activate the globe when a rocket (or queen volley) is about to hit you. Turn it off the moment you kill the monster. Usually I can start the wave with 100 or so adrenaline, and come out without having lost it all. It's a tough wave to live through, and before I started using the globe, I died on it all the time.
Wave 13? Triple is the best here. Brutes don't move much, neither do the giant gasbags. For me the key to brutes is to not triple every single one, only about every other one. The reason is that each one is not really worth enough adrenaline (with surge 2) to sustain the triple. The giant gasbags, however, are always worthy of the triple.
Wave 14? See wave 6. Triple, triple, triple.
Wave 15? I used to use the lightning rod. The nice thing about it is that it stops the normal skaarj from firing. But triple + something I can hit with like the mini = a skaarj dead sooner, with less lost adrenaline. Which is why I've started using the triple.
Wave 16? Globe for sure. Sometimes if there's a lone titan I'll pull out the triple and kill him, but the threat of fast spawning queens and warlords usually keep me on the globe. A neat trick I like to use is activating the globe with a bunch of annoying monsters around me, and then shooting the deemer at my feet.

Kills most of them and gives me adrenaline!

That's just about it. Keep in mind my skillset for this - surge 2, leech 2, drip 2, artifacts 3, resupply 1, and denial 3. Speedswitch, I haven't really played around with it yet, but will buy level 2 soon.

As for making weapons, I usually concentrate on flak, link, mini, and shock, in that order. Rocket has betrayed me to suicide and the undoing of denial 3 too much, so I avoid it. Lightning is only good if it's a vamp, vorpal, or there's a nali deserving of a headshot.

The thing I like to remember is - the link has the best damage/second (minus the grenade launcher... which is mostly a joke). Good link + triple + monster that's easy to hit = tons of damage + dead monster quickly.

Look at the order on this chart... it really helps me out to know which weapon is the best for damage. (That chart taken from the DAWGA RPG FAQ, found at http://www.dawga.com/faq. For those wondering, DAWGA is another RPG server I used to play on a ton. For those not wondering, ignore the last sentence.)

I hope this post helps people. If it's not deemed too long, wordy, and inconcise, I may make another one about another aspect of LA'ing.

Post edited once to fix a link

That's some excellent stuff, kyraeu. It's interesting to see how your strategy evolves, particularly given you are leveling up with the artifact changes to the triple and Lightning Rod.

After having received some praise for my earlier post, I've decided to make another.

First off, what are good skills to buy?

Allow me to first say that I started my character probably about a year ago - around when the LAs were first released. As a result I had to buy drip, leech, and surge before I could get artifacts. And believe me, I wanted artifacts. Maxer? Doubler? New stuff, sweet!

So, the first thing I bought was energy leech level 1 (which cost 5 points then). Just because I needed it, it has to prereqs, and it was new too! Then 50 DB. Then 50 max adrenaline. This took me 2, maybe 3 maps. There were no medics back then, so booster was my friend. Then I bought surge, which cost 5 points for level 1 and 10 for level 2 (now, it is 2 and 8 respectively). However I only had level one for a while, then bought drip 1 (which cost 5 points too).

And there I had it. Enough to start buying artifacts! So, I maxed out artifacts, and was starting to have fun with all my artifacts. But I needed more adren! So I dropped 10 points into surge 2, and 10 more for leech 2 (I had a few extra points, and said, what the heck, why not?). Then, denial 3 was released! Ooh, ooh, I want that too! So I got 55 points and spent 'em on denial 3. I loved it, but it was painful with just denial 2 for a while... because you can't switch to weapons you don't have ammo for. Note that I don't have resupply yet.

Then, I started to find that I needed more damage! More damage! The triple wasn't enough with 0 weapon speed. So I started building up my weapon speed... to 24. Somewhere in this area the changes to the adren skills' costs happened. I had a few extra points. Some of them might have gone into WS... can't remember though.

At that point I started noticing my lack of resupply. It was very painful. I stopped playing for a long time. Fast forward to a month or two ago. I grind for a week or two and get 50 ammo bonus and resupply. All of a sudden, everything clicks. I finally don't need to hunt for ammo everywhere. I'm not a servant of the inf weapons. I can run around and not worry about ammo for the most part. Then I continue with weapon speed and max it. Around here I buy drip 2 as well. Then I buy speedswitch 1, just because I switch weapons a lot. I don't do combos, really. And in the past week or two, I max out my damage bonus.

And that takes us to the present. So, cut out the narrative, what'd I buy?

1. Leech 1
2. 50 DB
3. 50 max adren
4. Surge 1
5. Drip 1
6. Artifacts 3
7. Surge 2
8. Leech 2
9. Denial 3
10. 24 WS
[insert long break... probably autobought the class skill in here]
11. 50 max ammo
12. Resupply 1
13. 26 WS (to max)
14. Speedswitch 1
15. Drip 2
16. 30 DB to max
17. 10 HP with the leftover

I don't really find what I bought to be the best way to go about it. How would I have done it differently, had I another chance to start?

First, I probably would have bought resupply. Then probably artifacts 1-3 (you don't want the MWM breaking on ya! that's like a bridge falling when you're halfway across!). Then 50 DB and 50 max adren, and then surge 2.

Why surge? What's so good about it? Here it is in a few bullet points.

1. It always works. Got the triple on? Still works. It doesn't wuss out like leech and drip do.

2. It gives you twice as much adren for kills when maxed. For 10 stat points, you can get twice as much adren. For leech, even at level 5, you might be able to rival this - but that takes many more stat points, and doesn't work when the triple's on! A few levels of leech are useful, but it can't compete with surge.

After surge, leech 1 and drip 1. Leech doesn't seem all that special to me. Won't help me run the triple. And it gives only a little adren, at the same cost. But it's some. Level 2 of leech isn't that bad of a buy, but don't go any higher. Drip is useful, especially at level 3. It's nice to be able to just sit there and get adrenaline. But it can't compete with other things that will help more.

Then, I would max weapon speed. This is very useful... read what 320 said about it. It's better than DB. It also makes it such that you can "steal" kills more, because you fire more rapidly and may get in the killshot more often.

Then it opens up a lot more. Drip 2 is a big step up from 1. Level 1 seemed mostly useless to me, but 2 actually helps out. Drip 2 -> 3 is a bigger step, though. Leech 2 is useful, but don't go much higher (it costs too much). Denial 3 should be a priority - it makes the game a lot easier when you get killed. This only happens a few times a map to me, if even at all, but the assurance that I won't have to start all over or mostly start over really sells it for me.

After that I say you should go whatever path you want to take. Need health? Buy it. Want more damage? Max DB. Want more adren skills? Buy them.

And that's about how far I've gotten. So here's how I would suggest one should buy their skills:

1) 50 max ammo & resupply
2) Artifacts 3
3) 50 DB, 50 max adren, and surge 2
4) Leech 1, drip 1, maybe level 2 if you like
5) Max weapon speed
6) Denial 3
7) Maybe more drip and leech
8) Whatever you want!

Depending on preference, you could probably move weapon speed up to rank 3. But no higher. It made a huge difference when I maxed weapon speed.

And DO NOT BUY DENIAL 3 BEFORE RESUPPLY. 320 mentioned it as a possibility, but I did and I was sorry. When you die, you respawn with your weapons, yes. But you do NOT GET AMMO for them. That's right, if you run out of ammo with your flak 4, and you die, you can't use it unless you find some ammo or survive the next wave. Which makes it really, really rough.

This takes you up to about level 40-50, which is when I really hit the sweet spot. I find I'm making between 1500 and 2000 xp per match, which means levels every 4-5 maps. With all the skills I listed out (twice, in different orders!) I am making about 1000-1500 scoreboard points.

That's it for this post. Later I will probably make a few about weapon types, triple usage and tricks, and maybe about warlords!

(PS - Sorry if I bored you with my big long post story! This took me the better part of an hour to type!)

Wow that is a very good amout of advice for new and experanced la charecters thanks for takeing your time to help us la out.

OK... with the recent amount of chaos and the occasional complaint about the new difficulty, I will try to help you LAs out with a few tips for surviving on the later waves... as I have had to change my strategy quite a bit.

Not only are the key waves (the "active" ones listed earlier) significantly harder, but also the normal ones are as well.

I am now using the triple less frequently - most of the time on waves 6 and 14; about half the time on wave 8 (depending on whether they're really hurting me or not); sometimes on waves 11, 13, and 15; and almost never on waves 12 and 16.

Why's that? Isn't the triple great? Well, yeah, but if you're going to die in five seconds while tripling, yet survive say a minute while globing, then globing is definitely better. It depends on the situation and the weapons you have which method you use, although I find that globing through 12 is kind of hard, with around a 50% or 60% success rate, and globing through 16 is really hard, with a 50% or lower success rate.

I will go through each of the key types of waves, and try to help out... although this is really a shot in the dark, since I'm having problems too, and I'm not sure what's making me supposedly better at surviving than you.

The Inactive Waves - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 10

These I find fairly easy to survive, with a few exceptions. The nalis have become especially nasty, and if I can't kill the skaarj quick they usually take me down to low health before I can get them. The lightning skaarj and nali also seem to be a lot better at hitting.

As a result... I've had to become a little quicker at switching to my globe (especially when the grenade nalis stick grenades to me - I usually don't get to it before they blow it up though). 3 clicks "up" (previous, I think) from the magic weapon maker, 1 up/previous from the triple. This doesn't always work, as sometimes I am too low on adrenaline. In which case I run and trans as fast as I can in the other direction.

Stop for medics whenever you can. You never know what might be around the corner or coming from behind you. It's usually not possible to stop during the key waves, because you'll get a rock in the face or a rocket/queen/nali in the back.

The Titan Waves - 6 and 14

Not much has really changed here strategy-wise (ie. you still triple), except they are a lot better at hitting. This means, move a lot. But you can't rely on just moving anymore - they know to aim where you're going. You have to move and usually dodge a ton, especially on the wide open maps where you're usually being aimed at from multiple directions. I usually get blindsided on the wide open maps, which leads to much frustration.

Then there's the small maps, where you don't have to worry about them coming from all directions - but they still have a habit of sneaking up behind you. If you don't have a spectator watching your back, you're probably going to die unless you run until they're all coming after you. Then it becomes a balance between shooting a tripled flak/link/mini/whatever and ducking back to safety, and waiting for the pebbles to subside.

Reading back through this part the advice is pretty crappy, but just move really erratically. I can't really explain it, but it's a combination of moving and dodge-jumping, and maybe with a few dodges. Bunny hopping doesn't work very well, but is probably a little better than just plain running.

The most important thing is that if you get overwhelmed, trans away to a defensible/safe position. There's no saving you if you're tripling in the crossfire of 5 titans, but if you trans away down an empty hall or into a safer area, you might be able to lure them one by one into a hallway, or buy yourself enough time to globe + point-blank deemer them.

It is more important to survive to kill lots of titans than to rush in a triple a certain one, so stay back a little more than you used to. I've learned this the hard way by dying on the first rock of the wave a few times, while eagerly tripling my flak and rushing in. Don't stay too far back, but don't get so close as to be easy pickings.

Entering these waves with a lot of adrenaline is not necessary, but I've found it helps more than before. Usually about 50 or 60 is enough to ensure the chain reaction of triplage and spree kills to keep your adrenaline going strong.

The Queen Wave - 8

Not much has changed here. Make sure you don't get snuck up on by a nali.

The biggest difference is that it's harder to dodge the queens now. If one is attacking you, sure you can probably handle it with the triple when she drops her shield. If two start to attack you, apply the transing away method above - or pull out the globe if you have adrenaline to spare. Otherwise, triple. Staying safe is more important than getting points this wave - I usually stay back unless they teleport near and just beg me to triple them.

This goes for all the waves with queens - ever noticed that they (sometimes) sit still for a while after they teleport? That's the key time to attack them. If you can, get around where their shield is not/will not be, and hit them in the back with link/flak. If you can switch to the triple real fast, switch it on. If tripled, they'll usually die before they start moving. If they're hurt it'll work too. Otherwise get ready to have to dodge and wait 'till the shield goes down. If anything sneaks up behind you while you're taking advantage of the queen's lull in activity, make sure to either globe or dodge, or both!

Entering wave 8 with a lot of adrenaline is usually unnecessary since you can probably kill at least one queen safely for needed triple/globe fuel. Although, it definitely can help. Don't waste your adrenaline on the globe if she's not interested in you, because it's just not worth it. If you aren't getting pummeled by something while you're globing, you shouldn't be globing at all.

The Odd Waves of Medium Difficulty - 11, 13, and 15

These were all waves you could safely triple on before. Now you have to concentrate on dodging a lot more, and sometimes globe.

11. It's a hodgepodge of everything. Triple the titans unless they get dangerous. Triple the queens unless they gang up on you. The giant gasbags are annoying if they get to smack you, other wise relatively easy. Triple them if you have the adrenaline - otherwise kill them normally (ie. no triple) to save adren for the carnage of wave 12. Warlords, usually just run. If you have a good warlord killing setup (ie. null), then feel free to charge in if health is of little issue, like if a medic is right on your tail. Other than these guidelines, exhibit the same caution as with the inactive waves.

13. Used to be way too easy, now is quite a bit harder. The giant gasbags are annoying, especially if their fireballs get your number. Dodge a lot, and make sure that a nali doesn't sneak up behind you while you're hitting the gasbag. (I'm not so good about watching the radar so that's usually what gets me, if anything, on this wave.) I know it really seems like overkill but I've found myself globing on the brutes if I have the adren. Just because they, if anything, have the ability to do the most damage in the least amount of time with their rapid-fire rocket launchers. Don't globe on all of them or you'll run out of adrenaline too quick. Only globe on ones that surprise you or when you're on low health. This is a terrible wave to die on - you lose the momentum usually needed to get through wave 14, and if you have resupply 1 like I do, you don't get the well-needed ammo boost from the beginning of the wave (which you may have missed on 12). Make sure you leave a little adrenaline to get the triple started for the titans next wave, though. Run away or globe (+ deemer?) if there's a mob of 3+/4+.

15. This is just like a nasty version of the inactive waves. Have the globe at the ready for a tight spot, other than that follow the same general guidelines for the inactive waves.

Don't overexpend your adrenaline on any of these waves as you need it for 12 and 16 especially, and having some for 14 helps.

The Waves from Hell, containing Queens, Warlords, Nalis, and sometimes Titans - 12 and 16

The only real difference is that 16 has titans, which makes it a little easier, and a little harder at the same time. More on that later.

There is really no difference between these two. One has titans, but not very many. They are both VERY hard and near impossible for an LA to survive, yet somehow I manage to survive around 50% of the time.

OK, I am going braindead right now. I have typed out all this stuff for too long... I will finish this later. If no one replies I will just edit - otherwise I will make it a fullfledged post of its own. These 2 demon waves deserve one anyway.

Hope this helps in some small way, since lately it seems everyone has been getting a little discouraged. I do too, and when I do I just take a little cooldown time for a map or two and then hop back into the fray. Just don't get too discouraged... because when you admit your defeat, you're done for.